May 24th D&D Next Playtest Docs - Share your feedback here

beejazz · May 29, 2012, 01:50:22 PM

Quote from: Kord's Boon;543507If I may hazard a misuse of Justin's terminology, we may just be pushing around a spherical cow.

On reflection a force effect that is not likely to over-come all but the most fragile object's hardness is very helpful and even if it's usable at-will (or not, it's your cup of tea) it's not something that players will literally use very 5 feet. After all, how many times have players forgotten rules that could make their lives much easier. I've seen PCs -die- because they didn't 'take 10'.

I say let it target object, as that would make the most sense. I'll rule it that way during the play-test I'm running next week.

I agree that object hardness really could be used against most "abuses" of an at-will damage spell that can target objects.

Sigmund · May 29, 2012, 01:52:22 PM

Quote from: beejazz;543511Maybe explicitly mention that the spell is loud so you'd want a rogue to bypass doors, traps, and chests.

I like that fluff as a way to keep it under control actually. It includes a loud fizzling sound, or whoosh and bang. Nice.

Marleycat · May 29, 2012, 01:55:04 PM

Quote from: Sigmund;543514I like that fluff as a way to keep it under control actually. It includes a loud fizzling sound, or whoosh and bang. Nice.

I guess nobody hears me.

(I did say the same thing upthread). Plus if it hits objects, they go BOOM! making noise, which is dangerous in a dungeon environment.

pryingeyes · May 29, 2012, 01:56:49 PM

I'm going to be honest - this Magic Missile issue doesn't bother me at all.

If I was DM and the issue came up, I'd simply drop the bizarre assumption (based off, yes, a strict reading of RAW) that the Magic Missile doesn't even fire when not aimed at a creature.

Shoot the MM all you want, but against an inanimate object it simply harmlessly dissipates. Being a force magic effect, I'm fine with defining it as somehow attacking an insubstantial 'life force' - hence why it can 'hit' anything, but only does any damage to a creature.

Therefore, you couldn't snuff out a trap with it (not a creature), but you could possibly identify a Mimic (based off the Mimic's reaction, not that a Magic Missile shoots in the first place - note that arrows and the like would also work in this situation).

Sigmund · May 29, 2012, 01:56:52 PM

Quote from: Marleycat;543515I guess nobody hears me. (I did say the same thing upthread).

I saw it, just trying to make my responses apply to more recent posts in order to keep the panty-bunching to a minimum.

jadrax · May 29, 2012, 01:58:21 PM

Quote from: Sigmund;543504Dude, i think this is awesome. I would totally let that work as a DM. It's creative thinking by the player and I live for that shit as a DM.

Oh god no, not another one. It's not creative, it's me being an arsehole and trying to punish you for being a bad GM.

Sigmund · May 29, 2012, 01:58:45 PM

Quote from: pryingeyes;543516I'm going to be honest - this Magic Missile issue doesn't bother me at all.

If I was DM and the issue came up, I'd simply drop the bizarre assumption (based off, yes, a strict reading of RAW) that the Magic Missile doesn't even fire when not aimed at a creature.

Shoot the MM all you want, but against an inanimate object it simply harmlessly dissipates. Being a force magic effect, I'm fine with defining it as somehow attacking an insubstantial 'life force' - hence why it can 'hit' anything, but only does any damage to a creature.

Therefore, you couldn't snuff out a trap with it (not a creature), but you could possibly identify a Mimic (based off the Mimic's reaction, not that a Magic Missile shoots in the first place - note that arrows and the like would also work in this situation).

Kudos. I applaud your initiative in making it your own. Especially while making sense at the same time. I'm sure someone will be along to insult you for it shortly.

Sigmund · May 29, 2012, 02:00:27 PM

Quote from: jadrax;543518Oh god no, not another one. It's not creative, it's me being an arsehole and trying to punish you for being a bad GM.

I would say you have failed then. Keep trying though, practice makes perfect they say.

jadrax · May 29, 2012, 02:01:04 PM

Quote from: beejazz;543511Maybe explicitly mention that the spell is loud so you'd want a rogue to bypass doors, traps, and chests.

That is certainly how I handle 'Knock', and I don't see any reason why Magic Missile should be silent.

Marleycat · May 29, 2012, 02:06:10 PM

Quote from: pryingeyes;543516I'm going to be honest - this Magic Missile issue doesn't bother me at all.

If I was DM and the issue came up, I'd simply drop the bizarre assumption (based off, yes, a strict reading of RAW) that the Magic Missile doesn't even fire when not aimed at a creature.

Shoot the MM all you want, but against an inanimate object it simply harmlessly dissipates. Being a force magic effect, I'm fine with defining it as somehow attacking an insubstantial 'life force' - hence why it can 'hit' anything, but only does any damage to a creature.

Therefore, you couldn't snuff out a trap with it (not a creature), but you could possibly identify a Mimic (based off the Mimic's reaction, not that a Magic Missile shoots in the first place - note that arrows and the like would also work in this situation).

That works for me, but I am like Sigmund and rule it like it's Shadowrun which is basically the same as you describe. I add in concussive/sonic effects to drive the point home that inventive use, good spamming and making the Rogue pissed, bad.

jeff37923 · May 29, 2012, 02:14:29 PM

Quote from: Benoist;543500Does a magic missile make noise?

Yes. It goes "Pew! Pew! Pew!" as it whines through the air and fails to penetrate the Shields of Indifference.

Kord's Boon · May 29, 2012, 02:15:28 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;543527Yes. It goes "Pew! Pew! Pew!" as it whines through the air and fails to penetrate the Shields of Indifference.

*Ba' dum tish*

Marleycat · May 29, 2012, 02:21:28 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;543527Yes. It goes "Pew! Pew! Pew!" as it whines through the air and fails to penetrate the Shields of Indifference.

But it's still Dnd and I like it....as the Rolling Stones say.

jeff37923 · May 29, 2012, 02:22:55 PM

Well, with all this thrashing about over Magic Missile and what it can or cannot do, what about the at-will use of Mage Hand? I'd allow Mage Hand to be used to open doors and trigger traps because it would be a logical application of the spell - just like using Magic Missile to do the same thing.

I'd also allow a spellcaster to use Mage Hand to float them a can of beer from the shelf and use Ray of Frost to chill it down to the right temperature.

Marleycat · May 29, 2012, 02:26:10 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;543532Well, with all this thrashing about over Magic Missile and what it can or cannot do, what about the at-will use of Mage Hand? I'd allow Mage Hand to be used to open doors and trigger traps because it would be a logical application of the spell - just like using Magic Missile to do the same thing.

I'd also allow a spellcaster to use Mage Hand to float them a can of beer from the shelf and use Ray of Frost to chill it down to the right temperature.

You mean that isn't what it's used for? Besides pinching cute lass's butts of course.

Off topic: I absolutely love the Wheel of Time and Shadowrun does this also of having cantrip effects that keep bad weather effects off you and looking good no matter what the circumstance, very valuable those are.