Quote from: VectorSigma;542775Considering they didn't get that the Hill Cantons post on 'Five Worst OSR Blogs' was on the first of April, that doesn't surprise me one bit.

A regular cabal of rocket surgeons, that lot.

Quote from: Marleycat;542723Which core game would that be?

Dark Passages of course

Actually I largely wrote it as exactly that, an expression of core D&D as I see it so it's pretty close though there's still a few things I couldn't help fiddling with like being to memorize Dispel Magic at any level and that's the level of spell it will dispel.  But regurgitating existing spells and monsters is the hardest part for me.

The rewrite I've been play testing is a little further and a little closer but it's still all stuff that's existed in D&D at one point or another.  It's more of a neo-clone at this point.

But to reiterate.  The six stats, the three to eighteen scale, strength adds to melee, dexterity to missile and AC, one level equates to one hit dice, d20 to hit verses armor class / armor makes you harder to hit (worst roll ever BTW), wizards and clerics prepare and lose their spells when used, character classes as archetypes, magical healing being fast and natural healing being very slow, monsters, treasure etc.  The cosmology is part of it too, though it should only be hinted at in spell and monster descriptions as it's technically setting and the setting shouldn't be in the core rules, it's a build your own world game damnit!

Really, Basic + Expert is damn close to what I think they should stick to though I'd go to ascending ACs and d20 + bonus skills for thieves and steal the hit dice mechanism from castles and crusades (oh wait I already did).  Shove every other option into a supplement and build on the core.

Quote from: David Johansen;542779Dark Passages of course

Actually I largely wrote it as exactly that, an expression of core D&D as I see it so it's pretty close though there's still a few things I couldn't help fiddling with like being to memorize Dispel Magic at any level and that's the level of spell it will dispel.  But regurgitating existing spells and monsters is the hardest part for me.

The rewrite I've been play testing is a little further and a little closer but it's still all stuff that's existed in D&D at one point or another.  It's more of a neo-clone at this point.

But to reiterate.  The six stats, the three to eighteen scale, strength adds to melee, dexterity to missile and AC, one level equates to one hit dice, d20 to hit verses armor class / armor makes you harder to hit (worst roll ever BTW), wizards and clerics prepare and lose their spells when used, character classes as archetypes, magical healing being fast and natural healing being very slow, monsters, treasure etc.  The cosmology is part of it too, though it should only be hinted at in spell and monster descriptions as it's technically setting and the setting shouldn't be in the core rules, it's a build your own world game damnit!

Really, Basic + Expert is damn close to what I think they should stick to though I'd go to ascending ACs and d20 + bonus skills for thieves and steal the hit dice mechanism from castles and crusades (oh wait I already did).  Shove every other option into a supplement and build on the core.

I get you I kind of thought that's what they were going to do but maybe it's better this way because they're definitely doing the primary thing I wanted.  They aren't exactly doing a Retro/neoclone but something unique in ways.  I'm willing to stick around and see what it turns out be in its final iteration.

A D&D fan sent to Mike Mearls @mikemearls on twitter that the rules of Next felt like a bad retroclone. His answer was "I'd like to think of it as a good retroclone." Not saying it is myself or anything, just pointing out what the man said yesterday.

Quote from: Benoist;542784A D&D fan sent to Mike Mearls @mikemearls on twitter that the rules of Next felt like a bad retroclone. His answer was "I'd like to think of it as a good retroclone."

I'd like to think of the five dollar bill in my wallet as a million bucks.

I stand corrected it seems.  I do stand by not making a final judgment until it's actually published.  At least most of what I don't like could be fixed far easier than 4e for example.

So, back to D&DNext for a sec, how does adv/disadv rolls apply? Are these on skill rolls (w/ attribute modifier), or are these straight attribute rolls? I know you keep high for adv, and must keep low for disadv, but can you ever roll neutrally?

/cue "Clueless" joke here ("I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be 'whelmed'?")

Also, can someone give an example of these backgrounds/themes, they sound interesting. To roll up all those good ideas into a single modular package is impressive. I'm curious how they did it.

Further, because I know Benoist and others care about the nature of helping GMs understand the historical structure of D&D and exploration, how much do they go into developing a game. Do they provide tools for exploratory map? The value of random encounter tables? The visual assistance of Venn diagraming or whatever for relationships? Is Challenge Rating finally explicitly shown to be a GM tool, not a player contract? etc.

Just download the playtest.

Quote from: Opaopajr;542814So, back to D&DNext for a sec, how does adv/disadv rolls apply? Are these on skill rolls (w/ attribute modifier), or are these straight attribute rolls? I know you keep high for adv, and must keep low for disadv, but can you ever roll neutrally?

/cue "Clueless" joke here ("I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be 'whelmed'?")

Also, can someone give an example of these backgrounds/themes, they sound interesting. To roll up all those good ideas into a single modular package is impressive. I'm curious how they did it.

Further, because I know Benoist and others care about the nature of helping GMs understand the historical structure of D&D and exploration, how much do they go into developing a game. Do they provide tools for exploratory map? The value of random encounter tables? The visual assistance of Venn diagraming or whatever for relationships? Is Challenge Rating finally explicitly shown to be a GM tool, not a player contract? etc.

I think advantage rolls can apply to any d20 roll (attacks, checks, etc.).
Haven't poked into backgrounds/themes, really.
Not sure what "map tools" you're talking about, but maps don't seem to really come up in these rules.
Encounter tables aren't provided (it's all keyed rooms).
CR isn't there, monsters are assigned an XP value.

If XP is used as a balance point thing it needs to be done right.  Too many times* they've gone and not accounted for AC in XP or points values.  A first level fighter in platemail with a shield is being hit on an 18 by most low level pcs and will take much more punishment than a 2HD critter with an AC of 12.

*OD&D, BCXMI, C&C, Battle System Skirmish, D&D Minis off the top of my head.

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;542669Alternatively:  Fuck off back to your 4rrie forum.

"4rrie", that's one I hadn't seen before.  

JG

Quote from: Benoist;542387Well I obviously don't agree at all. AD&D2 is functional as a D&D game only because it had been 1e previously. When you make abstraction of 1e in 2e, what you're left with is a shit game about story time in ren fairs dancing with pixies and fairies. And I don't just blame Lorraine Williams, but the whole crew on the Dragonlance modules and the Dungeoneer/Wilderness guides, Zeb Cook, even Gary Gygax for starting the shit with UA and entrusting Zeb with Oriental Adventures.

Oh! Is it edition war time? Awesome.

1st edition is absolutely the worst edition of D&D ever published. It is a festering pile of poorly written, poorly edited, and poorly organized crap that was completely unplaytested and functionally unplayable as written.

Quote from: RPGPundit;542490Do you really want to encourage official rulings?

Do I want the most basic, core mechanics of a game to actually be clearly and concisely explained?

Yes.

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;542582I mean... how else would you handle it?  It's always been some clear unit, before d20, it was just broken down into 10' chunks (or 10 yard chunks out-of-doors),

You've apparently got different rulebooks than me. I don't recall any of them saying "you must move a minimum of 10 feet, and you can only move in increments of 10 feet".

How else would I handle it? I would just say "you can move up to your speed". If you're not using a segmented battlegrid, why do you need to chunk movement at all?

Quote from: J Arcane;542606There are mechanics in the game that mathematically result quite readily in non 5' increments.  Jumping, for one.

Just like 3.5. Which is exactly what I said. You're not contradicting me at all.

In other news: The hit point thresholds on spells only seem to exist in order to make spells unnecessarily complicated in really uninteresting ways. And the damage values for them seem much higher than they should be.

I will buy anything Greyhawk they may publish. The playtest material did indeed say Pelor. Also, Mystara via the Keep!

Quote from: Justin Alexander;542839You've apparently got different rulebooks than me. I don't recall any of them saying "you must move a minimum of 10 feet, and you can only move in increments of 10 feet".

How else would I handle it? I would just say "you can move up to your speed". If you're not using a segmented battlegrid, why do you need to chunk movement at all?

Honest question:  Does it literally say that you can't move less than 5' blocks?  
Not saying it doesn't, I just haven't stumbled across that.  Otherwise, I think we're just talking past each other.

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;542843Honest question:  Does it literally say that you can't move less than 5' blocks?  
Not saying it doesn't, I just haven't stumbled across that.  Otherwise, I think we're just talking past each other.

It doesn't.