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May 24th D&D Next Playtest Docs - Share your feedback here

Started by Benoist, May 24, 2012, 12:15:22 PM

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DestroyYouAlot

#360
May 26, 2012, 09:13:14 AM
Quote from: Justin Alexander;542393The deliberate chunking of all movement into 5' increments puts the playtest document very firmly in the 3.5/4E "everything is conceived as a battlegrid" camp.

I mean... how else would you handle it?  It's always been some clear unit, before d20, it was just broken down into 10' chunks (or 10 yard chunks out-of-doors), and that expressed at "table scale", no less.  Unless I'm misunderstanding you (since the alternative would seem to be "spaces") - should it be units of 3 feet?  7 feet?  5 and half?

A cubit?  ;)
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Halloween Jack

#361
May 26, 2012, 09:15:47 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;542511I expect nothing less from you given that mechanic is at the core of DM empowerment and causing players to just TRY stuff not explicitly spelled out on their character sheet.  Like 1/2e.:)
Play a spellcaster: Read the list of spells (which comprises a quarter of the rulebook), cast spell, get the effect listed. Play a martial character: Spend 20 minutes describing exactly how you poke something with a ten-foot-pole and beg the DM not to make you roll save-or-die.
Quote from: Marleycat;542533See the thing is the goal of 5e is to make it possible for BOTH of us to play our preferred version of Dnd not just YOUR version of Dnd. So get off your highhorse it doesn't impress me and does nothing for your case.
Miss, you're on the RPGsite. Compromise here is "Wizards makes the new edition of D&D a personal apology to me, and you get to play it."
Quote from: Benoist;542524And if you don't like Vancian magic, play something else than a MU, or play fucking Mage the Awakening and be done with it for fuck's sakes. Stop fucking around with D&D. Thank you.
I love wizards in The Dying Earth. It would be great if D&D wizards resembled them in the slightest, but they don't. Have fun with your comic book superhero anime "wizards," though.

David Johansen

#362
May 26, 2012, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;542533See the thing is the goal of 5e is to make it possible for BOTH of us to play our preferred version of Dnd not just YOUR version of Dnd. So get off your highhorse it doesn't impress me and does nothing for your case.

I seriously thought this was a done issue pages ago I have no clue why you're acting like a dog with a bone on this especially since I've told you that you will never change my opinion on this issue.

No, the thing is that the goal of 5e is to create a lot of buzz and sell a lot of books and controversy creates buzz.  Ideally they'd like the buzz to sell books for longer than it did with 4e.  As long as the designers believe that fixing D&D is the right path they will fail to bring back the people who have left.

The core game just needs scraped off and polished a little bit it doesn't need 'fixed'.
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Benoist

#363
May 26, 2012, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;542546That's fine I expect nothing less than for you to push back. Expect the same from me is all.  We disagree because we have different views of what Dnd is. Thank God, because if I want an echo chamber I'll just go to TBP. :)
There you go. So the matter is in fact not settled, and you can expect it to pop up again. I'm going to repeat myself, but I want to make clear that I have nothing against whatever preference you might have running your own campaign. But when it comes to the design of the game itself, and particularly its baseline, it's open season. You can't pretend this comes to you as a surprise.

Benoist

#364
May 26, 2012, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Halloween Jack;542583I love wizards in The Dying Earth. It would be great if D&D wizards resembled them in the slightest, but they don't.
Cool. When I want to play the Dying Earth RPG... I play the fucking Dying Earth RPG that already exists. When I want to play a mage that alters the fabric of reality, I play fucking Mage. When I want to play wuxia, I play fucking L5R, Exalted, what have you.

When I want to play D&D? I'd like to be able to actually play fucking D&D. Thanks.

J Arcane

#365
May 26, 2012, 11:49:22 AM
Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;542582I mean... how else would you handle it?  It's always been some clear unit, before d20, it was just broken down into 10' chunks (or 10 yard chunks out-of-doors), and that expressed at "table scale", no less.  Unless I'm misunderstanding you (since the alternative would seem to be "spaces") - should it be units of 3 feet?  7 feet?  5 and half?

A cubit?  ;)

It's also a wrong complaint.

There are mechanics in the game that mathematically result quite readily in non 5' increments.  Jumping, for one.
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QuestionC

#366
May 26, 2012, 11:52:18 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;542562People are saying Themes are weaksauce but they are forgetting they grow more powerful as you level. At least that's what Mearls said in his latest interview.

But they can't do that.

Themes are explicitly optional.  If they are too powerful then it becomes a real balance issue whether you keep them or not.

Bedrockbrendan

#367
May 26, 2012, 11:59:33 AM
Quote from: Benoist;542605Cool. When I want to play the Dying Earth RPG... I play the fucking Dying Earth RPG that already exists. When I want to play a mage that alters the fabric of reality, I play fucking Mage. When I want to play wuxia, I play fucking L5R, Exalted, what have you.

When I want to play D&D? I'd like to be able to actually play fucking D&D. Thanks.

I pretty much agree with benoist and think people get way too caught up in the word vancian. For most of us, when we say vancian, we aren't thinking Jack Vance. Personally I have never read a single one of his books and don't have much interest in doing so (nothing specifically against him, i have just never felt the itch to read vance). Vancian pretty much means the standard spell casting of D&D up through 3E. You can take a lot of thins out and I will still call it D&D...but take out that spell system and you have a different game in my opinion.

B.T.

#368
May 26, 2012, 12:05:16 PM
Quote from: Halloween Jack;542583Play a spellcaster: Read the list of spells (which comprises a quarter of the rulebook), cast spell, get the effect listed. Play a martial character: Spend 20 minutes describing exactly how you poke something with a ten-foot-pole and beg the DM not to make you roll save-or-die.
This is why 4e players are stupid.  The wizard is just as much at risk as the fighter when adventuring to falling into a trap.  But because he can cast burning hands 1/day YOU HATE JOCKS CASTER EDITION tears ensue.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;530561Y\'know, I\'ve learned something from this thread. Both B.T. and Koltar are idiots, but whereas B.T. possesses a malign intelligence, Koltar is just a drooling fuckwit.

So, that\'s something, I guess.

Halloween Jack

#369
May 26, 2012, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: Benoist;542605Cool. When I want to play the Dying Earth RPG... I play the fucking Dying Earth RPG that already exists. When I want to play a mage that alters the fabric of reality, I play fucking Mage. When I want to play wuxia, I play fucking L5R, Exalted, what have you.

When I want to play D&D? I'd like to be able to actually play fucking D&D. Thanks.
So you want to play "Vancian" wizards, not Vancian wizards.

Sacrosanct

#370
May 26, 2012, 12:22:00 PM
Quote from: Halloween Jack;542583Play a spellcaster: Read the list of spells (which comprises a quarter of the rulebook), cast spell, get the effect listed. Play a martial character: Spend 20 minutes describing exactly how you poke something with a ten-foot-pole and beg the DM not to make you roll save-or-die..

Ah, I see you're back to using excessive amounts of hyperbole in trying to make a point that again what wouldn't hold up at all when spelled out without the hyperbole.

Color me shocked.  Shocked I say.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

DestroyYouAlot

#371
May 26, 2012, 12:34:38 PM
Quote from: Halloween Jack;542583Play a spellcaster: Read the list of spells (which comprises a quarter of the rulebook), cast spell, get the effect listed. Play a martial character: Spend 20 minutes describing exactly how you poke something with a ten-foot-pole and beg the DM not to make you roll save-or-die.

D&D: Something Awful d20 Strawman Edition
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Benoist

#373
May 26, 2012, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: Halloween Jack;542617So you want to play "Vancian" wizards, not Vancian wizards.

I want to play D&D.

Halloween Jack

#374
May 26, 2012, 12:54:54 PM
Quote from: Benoist;542628I want to play D&D.

We were talking about Vancian wizards. Don't derail, son. But if you want to play D&D, my Encounters group meets tomorrow.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;542619Ah, I see you're back to using excessive amounts of hyperbole in trying to make a point that again what wouldn't hold up at all when spelled out without the hyperbole.

Color me shocked.  Shocked I say.
Fine; you can replace everything you consider hyperbole with "Negotiate with the DM; hope to avoid an outright 'no' or punitive result" and the point still stands.
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