Quote from: Opaopajr;542536This sucks being so far away form the action...

So, besides from bouncing back after a long day of risking your life in combat with just a good night's rest and a hearty breakfast, is there anything else that shows promise or could use cutting?

At-will magic missle offends some. The healing thing is definitely an issue that needs some streamlining for sure. I don't see much else so egregious that couldn't be houseruled though.

Quote from: Marleycat;542533I seriously thought this was a done issue pages ago I have no clue why you're acting like a dog with a bone on this especially since I've told you that you will never change my opinion on this issue.

Well I'll give you a hint: if you have an argument and settle the matter, then it's bad form to repeat the exact same fucking thing that sparked the first argument in the first place. I agreed to stop the hostilities on the condition that you wouldn't start rambling about the same things all over again a few pages later as though nothing happened. Get a clue lady. Stop being thick.

Quote from: Opaopajr;542536This sucks being so far away form the action...

So, besides from bouncing back after a long day of risking your life in combat with just a good night's rest and a hearty breakfast, is there anything else that shows promise or could use cutting?

I am really liking the backgrounds and themes. Themes basically replace 4th ed roles, 3rd ed prestige classes and 2e kits in a single mechanic that a) dosen't suck and b) you can completely remove from your game in 2 seconds if you think I was wrong about a. backgrounds do the same but for skills.

That's an impressive level of modularity right in the very core.

Apart from that, most of the current improvements are getting rid of shit from 3rd/4th. ;o)

Quote from: Benoist;542539And you get off your own high horse girl and stop pretending like you have the high ground because you really, really don't on this one. If you have your pew pew at wills as a module it's cool for you. If we are talking about the baseline and core of the D&D game, which I am, it is another matter entirely. So stop being a bitch and live with the fact that if you are going to advocate for these sorts of changes in D&Ds you are going to meet some objections on my part. If you can't live with that fact, well that's too bad. I'll keep pushing back.

That's fine I expect nothing less than for you to push back. Expect the same from me is all.  We disagree because we have different views of what Dnd is. Thank God, because if I want an echo chamber I'll just go to TBP.

Though even I have second thoughts about MM being at-will.  I need to play the game, the full version or at least far more than this single playtest to come to a final decision.

At-will Magic Missile can be something so powerful that it'd change the structure of how Magic Users would be incorporated in society. It'd need a range limit, or some other limit to prevent endless kiting. Does it still seek the target, or does it provide fixed damage, or both? Because that can be problematic in the future.

What's the talk about rolling twice, this 2d20? Can someone give a breakdown how it works? Because if it's like L5R roll & keep, I grok it (as I've already played L5R), but it can be problematic as the keep part soon overshadowed the roll part. Are there going to be taking raises in D&D as well? How does this version work out?

It does, 100 feet. It's autohit 1d4+1 and caps out at 4d4+4 at 9th level. No raises so far.  I will let others explain advantage/disadvantage since I'm phone posting.

Quote from: Opaopajr;542547At-will Magic Missile can be something so powerful that it'd change the structure of how Magic Users would be incorporated in society. It'd need a range limit, or some other limit to prevent endless kiting. Does it still seek the target, or does it provide fixed damage, or both? Because that can be problematic in the future.

Its not much different from the ubiquitous Wand of magic missile in 3.5 tbh. Its a traditional magic missile (auto hit, d4+1 damage), but at-will and scales slightly slower. A damage build warrior with a longbow on the other hand probably does 1d8+6 damage on a hit, or 4 damage on a miss, so is comfortably better (although needs weapons and ammo). Certainly something to look at during play testing, but on paper I am not that impressed.

QuoteWhat's the talk about rolling twice, this 2d20? Can someone give a breakdown how it works? Because if it's like L5R roll & keep, I grok it (as I've already played L5R), but it can be problematic as the keep part soon overshadowed the roll part. Are there going to be taking raises in D&D as well? How does this version work out?

If you have advantage, you roll twice and take the best result. If you have disadvantage you roll twice and take the worst (which is pretty horrid). Haven't tried it in play yet, but I think I like it.

Quote from: Opaopajr;542547At-will Magic Missile can be something so powerful that it'd change the structure of how Magic Users would be incorporated in society. It'd need a range limit, or some other limit to prevent endless kiting. Does it still seek the target, or does it provide fixed damage, or both? Because that can be problematic in the future.

What's the talk about rolling twice, this 2d20? Can someone give a breakdown how it works? Because if it's like L5R roll & keep, I grok it (as I've already played L5R), but it can be problematic as the keep part soon overshadowed the roll part. Are there going to be taking raises in D&D as well? How does this version work out?

In certain situations, you can gain advantage or disadvantage.

If you have advantage on a roll, you roll 2d20 and take the higher of the two.

If you have disadvantage, you take the lowest instead.

Magic-users: kings of hunting small game.

Quote from: jadrax;542543I am really liking the backgrounds and themes. Themes basically replace 4th ed roles, 3rd ed prestige classes and 2e kits in a single mechanic that a) dosen't suck and b) you can completely remove from your game in 2 seconds if you think I was wrong about a. backgrounds do the same but for skills.

That's an impressive level of modularity right in the very core.

Apart from that, most of the current improvements are getting rid of shit from 3rd/4th. ;o)

People are saying Themes are weaksauce but they are forgetting they grow more powerful as you level. At least that's what Mearls said in his latest interview.

Quote from: Marleycat;542562People are saying Themes are weaksauce but they are forgetting they grow more powerful as you level. At least that's what Mearls said in his latest interview.

Well given that they all give an extra feat at level 3 you would have thought people would have worked that they scale already.

Strength wise, they look far batter than any feat I remember you getting at first level in 3.5, although obviously I don't own the 'D20 guide to utterly twinking your class with third party crap', so I am probably way behind the accepted power curve.

Quote from: jadrax;542565Well given that they all give an extra feat at level 3 you would have thought people would have worked that they scale already.

Strength wise, they look far batter than any feat I remember you getting at first level in 3.5, although obviously I don't own the 'D20 guide to utterly twinking your class with third party crap', so I am probably way behind the accepted power curve.

He said you get a feat at 1 and 4 so I figure at 3/6/9/12/15/18...? I wonder if you can switch/stack them? Obviously they changed the progression.

Quote from: Planet Algol;542557Magic-users: kings of hunting small game.

This is what I have gathered as well. Magic missile was an always hit, low damage kind of fallback offensive spell. This implementation does not destroy that. It pretty much just turns it into Ray of Frost from Pathfinder.

So far, the only thing that bugs me is the hit points of the bigger monsters in the Bestiary. The humanoid chieftains seem too high and not skilled enough while several of the iconic large monsters (Ogre and Troll for example) look like they will be hit point grinds for the party, which can get boring quickly.

I'm really not seeing any advantage over what I already have as game systems for DnD.

Quote from: jeff37923;542568This is what I have gathered as well. Magic missile was an always hit, low damage kind of fallback offensive spell. This implementation does not destroy that. It pretty much just turns it into Ray of Frost from Pathfinder.

So far, the only thing that bugs me is the hit points of the bigger monsters in the Bestiary. The humanoid chieftains seem too high and not skilled enough while several of the iconic large monsters (Ogre and Troll for example) look like they will be hit point grinds for the party, which can get boring quickly.

I'm really not seeing any advantage over what I already have as game systems for DnD.

It's way early yet but I share your concerns.

Ok, so we played and it was fine and without seeing the completed rules it is hard to judge fully. BUT I don't see anything to make us switch from using either a hybrid 1st/2nd Edition or our favourite - Basic (Rules Cyclopedia) - at least when we play a rare DnD session or adventure.

In reality, we didn't like the bits in there from the 4th edition and wholey we like DnD adventuring and the general rules even less. We still don't like how AC works; there is still the problem of DEX being better than the rest and doing too many things and CHA is still a useless stat (mainly). The rapid wolverine healing isn't for us and (as I said previously) stamina/meta-physical damage/wounds needs to be address.

In the main I was hoping that it would bring a sense of wonder and nostalgia; it didn't. I think we've moved on. Indeed, I think that RuneQuest 6 may well  be the last RPG that we bother buying and even perhaps playing -(perhaps due to age and kids). Moreover, we like more realsitic settings and play with drama. Indeed, we have started playing historical games or games set in prehistory. With that said, we are all impressed by Game of Thrones and we may venture there.

In summary, I was expecting from the design notes along with the desire to appeal to all editions that we'd end up with Frankenstien's monster; it isn't! Instead, its Frankenstien's Bride. Make of that what you will. I think if anything they should have gone for a whole new edition and thought of nothing as sacred; or possibly brought out a newer, updated version of the Basic rules. With that said we wish it luck!