Quote from: Aos;545514Okay, I don't know shit about C&C though.
whatever, can someone outline the advantage disadvantage thing that has ruffled so many feathers. I feel like I'm going to need more knowledge before I can effectively contribute to these threads.
And when I say contribute, I mean troll.

If you have advantage on a roll you roll 2d20 an take the highest, if you have disadvantage you roll 2d10 and take the lowest. If you have nether or both, you make the roll as normal.

The maths is not liner, but it doesn't stack and in my opinion is much quicker than worrying about 5million bonuses.

Kobolds, for example, get disadvantage on attacks in bright light and advantage on attacks if they outnumber their enemy.

Quote from: jadrax;545523If you have advantage on a roll you roll 2d20 an take the highest, if you have disadvantage you roll 2d10 and take the lowest. If you have nether or both, you make the roll as normal.

The maths is not liner, but it doesn't stack and in my opinion is much quicker than worrying about 5million bonuses.

Kobolds, for example, get disadvantage on attacks in bright light and advantage on attacks if they outnumber their enemy.

The number i hear is it amounts to a +5 or -5. If so, i think that is a lot better than giving a +1 or +2 (or -1/-2) for having an advantage in combat.

On a semi-related note, one of the Usual Suspects is claiming that WotC released the Essentials line to deliberately sink 4e.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;545526The number i hear is it amounts to a +5 or -5.

It probably averages in the +4/+5 region, but it's not liner. If you had a 5% chance (i.e. need a 20) you get roughly a 10% chance, around a +1 Bonus. In most cases its more meaningful than the piddly +1 and +2 bonuses you normally get in 3.5 - and that to me is a good thing.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;545526The number i hear is it amounts to a +5 or -5. If so, i think that is a lot better than giving a +1 or +2 (or -1/-2) for having an advantage in combat.

On of the math-head bloggers did a chart; as I recall it does indeed look like more of a +4 or +5 when you're in the middle of the number range (like when you need a 10 to succeed) and then tapers off in each direction.

In the one playtest game I was in on, we used advantage quite a bit, and it seemed to be working fine (again, small sample size).  We did, however, stop short of "hassling the DM for advantage over piddly shit" (a la FATE Aspects and "c'mon, it totally applies again!"-type crap).

I look at it this way: the dynamic of asking about bonuses/penalties is always gonna be there ("But I threw sand in his eyes last round, doesn't that screw with his AC or something?") because you're never going to have every possibility spelled out in a book somewhere (and who would want that?  Oh, wait, gleichman would).  Advantage is fast - although no faster than "everything is + or - 2" - and easy.  If you're the sort of DM (or player) who doesn't care so much about whether it's a +2 or a +4 bonus in the long-run with this kind of stuff, you may like advantage.

I thought the use of advantage throughout the packet was pretty clever - for example, Boots of Elvenkind give you advantage on stealth rolls.  That's all they do.  You could, I suppose, swap out a lot of 'plusses' for advantage (this magic sword has no plus but grants advantage against werewolves), which would actually be a LARGER plus to the roll sometimes, but keep in mind that advantage doesn't really stack.

My main issues with the playtest-packet-rules is hp inflation, some of the at-will cantrips, and the 'hit dice' healing mechanism.  But I've only had one session, so I'm still paying attention.

QuoteI participated in the 5E playtest today.

    I was off to a bad start before the game even started to be honest. I woke up late, missed my 10:13 train, got lost on the subway, and showed up two hours late. I arrived right in the middle of a fight against a bunch of orcs. I picked up the human cleric of Pelor (all the other characters were taken) and started playing.  Lol.

    Comments:

Healing is confusing. I didn't realize that I couldn't use my healer's kit in combat. I ended up wasting my cure light wounds spell during an extended rest when I should have saved it for a fight. Why do we have two different mechanics for healing here?  I'M TOO DUMB TO UNDERSTAND A VERY SIMPLE MECHANIC HELP

    I didn't have anything cool to do in a fight. My spiritual hammer was a waste of time and I couldn't do anything else except spam the radiant 'orison' attack thing.  WAH I NEED SPECIAL POWERZ TO HAVE FUN
    I didn't realize that I could add a +2 to the spiritual hammer's attack roll. I didn't realize that I could add my wisdom modifier to the damage. The spell description didn't say anything about this. It was all on some other part of my character sheet. I would have appreciated at least some kind of reminder within the spell's text. "Hey, this keyword means check your sheet."  WHY AM I SO STUPID THIS GAME SUCKS
    I didn't really use the spiritual hammer to great effect. You could call it a tactical failing on my part. I just threw the thing into a crowd of orcs hoping to hit one every round. Then the wizard cast his burning hands spell and won the fight. The hammer spent the remainder of the 'minute' smashing into walls and accomplishing nothing productive.  lol what a cunt
    Speaking of 'minutes'. It's supposed to be ten rounds? I hate tracking rounds! It's tedious. It's one of the reasons why I don't play Pathfinder.  Wow, he must hate 4e, then.

    Disadvantage is a pretty huge punishment.  I just want to hit a button and win the game!  I made the mistake of throwing my spiritual hammer into a crowd of orcs blindly, hoping that the hammer would hit something. I got a disadvantage for it so the hammer hit nothing. That's a really effective use of a daily resource. Maybe that's not a fault of the system so much as my own terrible assumptions and decision making. I do feel like you pretty much have to have advantage for everything or you shouldn't even bother. I guess that's a good way to punish someone for lack of flavorful description behind their actions.  Lol, the hammer can't have disadvantage, good ruling.

    I tried to use clever role playing to salvage this character. I tried to use diplomacy and creative problem solving to compensate for the character's weaknesses and for my own weaknesses as a player. I tried to give my guy some personality as lawful fire-and-brimstone type. When the halfling thief was caught stealing gem stones from the party the cleric called for a trial. When we were trying to decide what to do with the chained-up orcish captain guy, the cleric called for a vote because "We believe in democracy!" Then this same guy would try to light everything on fire.  lol
    I still couldn't bring myself to care about the character though. I have no interest in playing him again. The DM and the other players were trying to tell me about all the cool stuff the guy could get at higher levels but honestly I didn't really listen. I have no interest in playing this character beyond this session.  weepingvagina.jpg

Haha, TBP posters suck.

Quote from: Benoist;545496I guess it's good to know you actually won't be ignoring my posts..

I only do a quick scan to see if it's about moderator related content (those tend to be very short and to the point and thus easy to spot from your typical style).

Beyond that I'm effectively ignoring your posts, as I do Pundits.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;545505I am perfectly capable of having a polite meal with someone who is arrogant.

I'll pass on it myself then.

Quote from: gleichman;545577I'll pass on it myself then.

:rotfl:

Quote from: One Horse Town;545578:rotfl:

Pretty much the original poster is a 4e player that a) didn't know the rules, b) came in with preconceived and bad notions, c) can't be bothered to wait all of 2-3 months on the outside to get the 4e tactical module, d) If Gleichman hates it I KNOW it's on the right track for me.

He's not interested or dislikes Dnd so even better and solidifies my opinion of why his POV is irrelevant to my style of "Mother May I". Otherwise known as as any TTRPG I would play or run. Which is why there are thousands out there,  a lot of them being stellar in their designed intention.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;545144Most of us are more average than we want to believe.

That's why it's called "average", isn't it?

JG

Quote from: Benoist;545483Then why do you keep posting on this thread instead of taking it somewhere else?

"You are posting in a troll thread."

Quote from: B.T.;545527On a semi-related note, one of the Usual Suspects is claiming that WotC released the Essentials line to deliberately sink 4e.

Well, if it was by accident, they couldn't have done a better job.  

JG

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;545505I am perfectly capable of having a polite meal with someone who is arrogant.

My Dinner With Gleichmann.  It's like My Dinner With Andre except more meaningless.

JG

Eating at Chili's is the ultimate expression of nihilism.