Mature, Adult Themes in RPGs

flyingmice · May 12, 2009, 04:02:56 PM

I'm tired of this phrase being co-opted to mean either sex or the grotesque. What I'd like to see discussed is stuff like:

What happens when you uplift a species that doesn't want to be uplifted?

Is it right to own a sentient robot/AI? Is it slavery?

On a world with multiple intelligent species with inimical, competing interests, is genocide justifiable?

What is the definition of human? What happens with near-but-not-quite-qualifying creatures?

Those are just starters. This stuff is vastly more interesting to me than some juvenile wanking over sex or squick.

Just saying.

-clash

One Horse Town · May 12, 2009, 04:07:02 PM

Yup. Adult is often misconstrued as mature.

jeff37923 · May 12, 2009, 04:13:01 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;301660I'm tired of this phrase being co-opted to mean either sex or the grotesque. What I'd like to see discussed is stuff like:

What happens when you uplift a species that doesn't want to be uplifted?

Is it right to own a sentient robot/AI? Is it slavery?

On a world with multiple intelligent species with inimical, competing interests, is genocide justifiable?

What is the definition of human? What happens with near-but-not-quite-qualifying creatures?

Those are just starters. This stuff is vastly more interesting to me than some juvenile wanking over sex or squick.

Just saying.

-clash

No arguements from here. You've hit it spot on.

My own two cents added is this: Why would you want to introduce material that would quite possibly drive away Players from your own game table or offend casual observers if you are playing in public? It just seems really counterproductive.

Benoist · May 12, 2009, 04:19:00 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;301660I'm tired of this phrase being co-opted to mean either sex or the grotesque. What I'd like to see discussed is stuff like:

What happens when you uplift a species that doesn't want to be uplifted?

Is it right to own a sentient robot/AI? Is it slavery?

On a world with multiple intelligent species with inimical, competing interests, is genocide justifiable?

What is the definition of human? What happens with near-but-not-quite-qualifying creatures?

Those are just starters. This stuff is vastly more interesting to me than some juvenile wanking over sex or squick.

Just saying.

-clash

I agree.

Just like explicit depictions of sex, violence and amoral behaviors might not be instantly thought of as immature and/or juvenile, though for some people, they certainly are.

flyingmice · May 12, 2009, 04:35:47 PM

Quote from: Benoist;301666I agree.

Just like explicit depictions of sex, violence and amoral behaviors might not be instantly thought of as immature and juvenile, though for some people, they certainly are.

That is because those are themes juveniles love to explore, and most of that exploration is being done by juveniles of every age. Thus the end product is almost always juvenile, puerile, and boring if you have a brain located above your waist.

-clash

Benoist · May 12, 2009, 04:40:13 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;301669That is because those are themes juveniles love to explore, and most of that exploration is being done by juveniles of every age. Thus the end product is almost always juvenile, puerile, and boring if you have a brain located above your waist.

-clash

I agree that it is a theme juveniles love to explore. I also agree that "juveniles" in this instance may be of any age. The results, in this case, will almost certainly be in the form of stereotypes (and many a time, very offensive stereotypes), and therefore tasteless, to say the least.

I do not agree that this would mean the end product would be "almost always" juvenile, puerile and boring to people with a brain located above their waist. I think I qualify as such a person, and as Jeff was saying in another thread, it's all a matter of motive and context, really. In a majority of cases it will be handled badly, but that doesn't mean it is in each and every single instance.

Pelorus · May 12, 2009, 05:42:08 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;301660I'm tired of this phrase being co-opted to mean either sex or the grotesque. What I'd like to see discussed is stuff like:

It's funny-peculiar that RPGs spend a lot of time depicting the sex and violence. So, looks like that's what the buying audience wants.

I try to explore 'mature' themes in my games. The definition of "the greater good", "the end justifies the means", the ability of superhuman protagonists to make choices for their charges in the knowledge that their charges would not make the right decision.

Even just in what they should use time travel for and when do they stop?

All juicy decisions.

bottg · May 12, 2009, 05:47:25 PM

I wonder if it is because sex and violence are common features of local news that are easy for everyone to relate to.

Slavery/Genocide etc are in the news, but seem "distant" from everyday life. The others are fairly philosophical in nature, and again outside the everyday sphere of life.

And i know that almost every RPG is about something fantastical, but within this we still tend towards what we know

flyingmice · May 12, 2009, 06:08:20 PM

BTW, just to let people know who don't know me, by "RPGs" I mean at the group level, not at the designer level. I love it when designers put room for these conflicts in a game, but I hate it when designers design this or that theme into their games so that you can't avoid it.

-clash

Tommy Brownell · May 12, 2009, 06:40:20 PM

Quote from: One Horse Town;301661Yup. Adult is often misconstrued as mature.

Mature and adult are both often misconstrued as "sex'n'violence", when media with those themes often (but not always, mind you) appeal way more to 14 year olds than 40 year olds.

Silverlion · May 12, 2009, 06:47:37 PM

I enjoy mature themes--like earnest romance, making hard moral choices. I'm not fond of the "Sex and violence" always equating to adult content.

It's often interesting to ask complex situations or directions of moral ideas by utilizing games--however adult is also knowing the limits of where and when that is appropriate.

SionEwig · May 12, 2009, 06:59:06 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;301660

On a world with multiple intelligent species with inimical, competing interests, is genocide justifiable?

I fully agree with the sentiment of the OP.

To adress this one particular question, I think that what needs to be asked isn't if genocide is justifiable, but is it avoidable (especially without dooming your own species)?

HinterWelt · May 12, 2009, 07:02:09 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;301660I'm tired of this phrase being co-opted to mean either sex or the grotesque. What I'd like to see discussed is stuff like:

What happens when you uplift a species that doesn't want to be uplifted?

Is it right to own a sentient robot/AI? Is it slavery?

On a world with multiple intelligent species with inimical, competing interests, is genocide justifiable?

What is the definition of human? What happens with near-but-not-quite-qualifying creatures?

Those are just starters. This stuff is vastly more interesting to me than some juvenile wanking over sex or squick.

Just saying.

-clash

What are the moral implications of killing "evil" races?

Why is divine==good?

What are the implications and complications of having dwaves, elves, humans, halflings and a dozen other sentient races occupying an island the size of the U.k?

If orcs believe in trial by combat, strength ruling the weak and a obligation that is both complex and deeply cultural, are they evil?

What is evil?

Can you be "good" but be far more "evil" than the worst Black Sorcerer?

Are squirrels inherently evil or do they just act that way?

Do squirrels drive you mad?

Do I have to mention squirrels in every post?

What is more evil, a squirrel or the Living Dead?

shalvayez · May 12, 2009, 07:55:06 PM

Maturity is completely overrated.

flyingmice · May 12, 2009, 07:59:41 PM

Quote from: shalvayez;301722Maturity is completely overrated.

Says the T-Rex flying an F-16!

-clash