Quote from: Catulle;1079388So, to be clear here, you're arguing that either a) chattel slavery was ended in the US without force, or b) the ending of chattel slavery in the US was not worth the pushback?

It would have stopped naturally, eventually, the Plantation Model is literally unsustainable.  Also, slaves don't pay taxes, and governments need money.  But this is off topic, and I'm not touching this anymore.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1079420I'm still confused. If a black kid showed up at AL and wanted to play a black paladin, would they be limited to playing a paladin from a specific area of the game world? That never was a thing in RPGA.

And is PC ethnicity a thing in AL now? The only time I knew any PC's skin color was when they made it a point or they did a drawing of their PC.

BTW, that's why my Japanese buddy hated Oriental Adventures and loved Bushido. He was a pain in the ass in our OA games because he demanded to know what everybody's PC looked like. OA 1e was a hodge podge of Chinese / Korean / Japanese / myths and chopsocky flicks, especially in the core book which (like D&D) assumed DMs would DIY their setting and he always wanted to know what NPCs looked like.

I was not referring to AL in my post. I was talking about published settings.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1079420I'm still confused. If a black kid showed up at AL and wanted to play a black paladin,

... I guess I would be supposed to malign him for "cultural appropriation" (one of the most downright retarded concepts ever, culture is dependent on cross-pollination).

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1079407You mean things the Americans with Disabilities Act requires, which was advocated for by actual disabled people, signed into law by George Bush Sr (Rep), and then amended by George Bush Jr (Rep) to broaden its powers?

I am certainly not diminishing the efforts of disabled advocates, particularly Patrishia Wright, but none of this stuff happens in a vacuum.

At least disabled folks had the access to the ballotbox, women and slaves did not. You don't need to be in the group to advocate hard for their rights, and always there are people who embrace obstructionism, often because they don't like the advocates, regardless of what it is they are actually advocating for. And ultimately it is the activists' ability to convince the mainstream that will determine whether their efforts are successful or not.

Quote from: S'mon;1079418I'm referring to the in-setting races. For instance Forgotten Realms canonically has black people, whereas Greyhawk traditionally doesn't - the jungle natives south of the main campaign area are either white (Suel) or Mesoamerican.

er. Boxed set Greyhawk page 13.

QuoteThe Flan race have a bronze-colored complexion. This varies from a lighter, almost copper shade to a very dark tone which is deepest brown.

They also tend to have wavy or curly hair. A page later its noted that the dark Flan skin tone is fairly common across the land. Description of dress mentions body paints in the wilder regions and more normal, if brightly hued clothes elsewhere.

Quote from: Omega;1079485er. Boxed set Greyhawk page 13.
 
They also tend to have wavy or curly hair. A page later its noted that the dark Flan skin tone is fairly common across the land. Description of dress mentions body paints in the wilder regions and more normal, if brightly hued clothes elsewhere.

You see the Flan and think African-American? They're normally taken to be vaguely Amerindian.

Quote from: S'mon;1079513You see the Flan and think African-American?

Flan is a tasty caramel custard dessert popular at Mexican restaurants so the "The People of the Flan" was a running joke during the Living Greyhawk days in California cons.

Quote from: S'mon;1079513You see the Flan and think African-American? They're normally taken to be vaguely Amerindian.

Yes. Wavy or curly hair was the big tip off there. Who reads that and thinks NA?

Quote from: Omega;1079575Yes. Wavy or curly hair was the big tip off there. Who reads that and thinks NA?

I think East Indian.  At most, Nubian.

Quote from: Omega;1079575Yes. Wavy or curly hair was the big tip off there. Who reads that and thinks NA?

OK... This seems a unique take on your part, judging by Google.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ZKTG_enGB823GB823&q=Flannae&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjLw86guovhAhXsURUIHbFBAfwQsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1920&bih=937

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Quote from: S'mon;1079617OK... This seems a unique take on your part, judging by Google.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ZKTG_enGB823GB823&q=Flannae&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjLw86guovhAhXsURUIHbFBAfwQsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1920&bih=937

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Nice try. But the art in the books has never been exactly an authority on what something looks like.

...

Quote from: Omega;1079618Nice try. But the art in the books has never been exactly an authority on what something looks like.

OK!

Quote from: Mistwell;1079247Calling something bullshit is not profanity. ...

This sentence is literally an oxymoron.

Quote from: Mistwell;1079247Let me see if I get this straight. None of you know anyone in CR, and none of the CR people have said anything much about this topic, but dismissing it all as actors and not real gamers without knowing them (though I know with 100% direct certainty they were all gamers before there was a camera, most before they were even actors). And that's acceptable to you. But my judging Pundit not knowing him but at least by his own words on the topic is somehow unacceptable to you?

I am defintely not attacking him personally, and that odd reply of yours shows you're not grokking this topic. I am juding the act he portrays. He not only does not deny it's an act, but said in an interview it's an act. I am judging his acting, not him personally. And the only judgement I make about his acting is that it's roughly the equivelent of any acting done by the CR guys. I'd love to hear how that's some personal topic.

They have acting backgrounds. It's not staged in that it is not in any way scripted, it's not edited, it's done live, they're role playing. I know from direct personal experience at least one member behaves exactly like that when not on camera - that's just him. And I am saying that Pundit is doing a rough equivelent of that with his RPG Pundit persona.

Quote from: Mistwell;1079247I am saying Pundit is as much an act as members of CR

And I'm comparing what he does to the CR show as a whole, and think that they are on far different levels.

You have compared him to an individual you know, and apply that comparison to the whole of CR.

We obviously have an irreconcilable disagreement on how we view the situation.

Quote from: Mistwell;1079247First of all I am classically trained to debate. Second, it's never been to shut down critics, it's always been to engage with critics. Nobody is trying to shut anyone down here. However, playing the victim like you're doing right now and whining, bitching, moaning, and complaining that someone is trying to squelch your right to free speech merely for saying they think you're behaving with envy? That really IS a classic means of shutting down discussion. Man up. You can handle someone calling you envious without crying about it. If you disagree, then make an argument about why it's not envy.

There IS merit to the envy argument. ... he gets treated differently than the members of CR, and one reason is envy. That's a plenty meritorious argument if true, and so far you've done nothing to refute it other than whine that someone dares say it. Go ahead, play the victim some more without addressing the point being made. But don't be surprised if you fail to impress the crowd here. People here don't tend to like those who play the victim card to get out of addressing hard truths.

When you question someones motivations - and they start to defend them,  then you are no longer arguing the original points of the debate.

It is a change of subject. (And most people don't catch on to what is being done.)

So don't react to provocations like the "Envy" argument kids.

As you can see from his reaction to pointing such tactics out, (whether he consciously used them or not), what kind of sidetracked mess you'll be drawn into.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1079273@Jaeger

I've been watching this entire thread.  As far as debate goes, not a single shred of actual evidence has been provided to indicate that CR is acting.  The ONLY claim to evidence is that people seem to be enjoying themselves far more than is actually POSSIBLE and therefore it MUST be acting.

You should probably read that sentence a few times before you go off half-cocked ...

You should actually read my past posts in this thread before you go off half-cocked; please point to one where I said they are outright acting, or going off a prepared script.

My past posts explain my position on what they are doing in CR thoroughly.

I see no need to re-type them here.

Quote from: Mistwell;1078681Oh please. You don't show your face, and conceal your name behind a facade. The facade is literally Pundit, and you call yourself the last boss of the internet shitlords.

Final boss. And it's not a title I gave myself.

Quote from: sureshot;1078850What gets me is that they think it's so damn easy to attract a POC, female or gay gamer to a tabletop session.

I have all three.

Also, it's funny seeing wundergeek is still around.