Quote from: RoyR;1077856I fail to see the logic here. They are playing and streaming a game of DnD, it's get popular and they follow that up by selling dice, T-shirts and posters. And now they go further by basing one or more animated episodes on the characters they played. Which gets funded due to that a lot of people liked to follow the adventures of these characters.
Where do any of this invalidate that they played a game of DnD to start with?

There is no logic. Just the accusation that they aren't as enthusiastic in their hearts about d&d as their performances show. Thus them making money from their hobby is not the action of enthusiastic hobbyists creating professional content, but phony hollywood making money off of fans. Except CR fans are not really roleplay game fans apparently.

So no gamers will be harmed in the making of this cartoon.

Except it may sneak terrible falsehoods about roleplay into the unwitting minds of the viewers.

Grats to Matt Colville on his KS. I hope he goes deep into animation and makes great animated shows of his fantasy campaign world. Then I hope he goes on to make movies.

Quote from: tenbones;1077859Grats to Matt Colville on his KS. I hope he goes deep into animation and makes great animated shows of his fantasy campaign world. Then I hope he goes on to make movies.

It is too confusing to have two famous Matt's doing DnD stuff.  One of them has to change and I suggest some kind of Thunder Dome event.

Quote from: RoyR;1077384How do you know for a fact that CR people are "acting"?

Common fucking sense.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1077382If your videos were watched by millions, I would assume everything was staged and was fake.

Regularly people just shooting the shit isn't some sort of phenomenon that people watch in-mass.

Exactly.

Actors + Editing = more professional, thus more engaging product.

Critical Role is a mixed bag for the hobby. It provided greater exposure, but its false presentation of actual play doesn't help so the final result is an influx of new players with wrong ideas about how gaming happens. But that's fine because most of those people seeking "the Critical Role" experience will fade out and leave behind people who understand that real gaming is going to be different than TV actor gaming.

But kudos to Mercer and CR for making money off gaming. Maybe now the gaming companies could try that.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1077755For an animated series, which has even less to do with gaming than the show it's based on. Even the rewards (except for the dice) and stretch goals have nothing to do with gaming.

I don't see that as a bad thing. The CR KS is focused on CR fans...

I expect they will get 10-12 episodes made and flip that into a NetFlix deal.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077960Common fucking sense.

The most UNCOMMON thing in this universe.  In fact I'd argue that what people call 'common sense' has died back in the early 80's.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077960Exactly.

Actors + Editing = more professional, thus more engaging product.

Critical Role is a mixed bag for the hobby. It provided greater exposure, but its false presentation of actual play doesn't help so the final result is an influx of new players with wrong ideas about how gaming happens. But that's fine because most of those people seeking "the Critical Role" experience will fade out and leave behind people who understand that real gaming is going to be different than TV actor gaming.

But kudos to Mercer and CR for making money off gaming. Maybe now the gaming companies could try that.

No one has proven it false.  I want PROOF, not butt-hurt opinion that because a crew of people who can stay on point and keep playing the game they are somehow 'fake'.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077960I don't see that as a bad thing. The CR KS is focused on CR fans...

I expect they will get 10-12 episodes made and flip that into a NetFlix deal.

If it's good, I don't care where the get the material.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077960Actors + Editing = more professional, thus more engaging product.

But CR is not edited, as in cut. It is live-streamed.

Current: $5,813,297 (so +1 mil in one day)
Trending: $68,215,812

Quote from: Verdant;1077858There is no logic. Just the accusation that they aren't as enthusiastic in their hearts about d&d as their performances show. Thus them making money from their hobby is not the action of enthusiastic hobbyists creating professional content, but phony hollywood making money off of fans.

On the contrary, their genuine enthusiasm is what sells the show, and they deserve all the success they get.

Quote from: Verdant;1077858Except CR fans are not really roleplay game fans apparently.

Most of them aren't.

What they are are fans of the people involved.

Quote from: Verdant;1077858So no gamers will be harmed in the making of this cartoon.

Of course not. That's ridiculous.

Quote from: Verdant;1077858Except it may sneak terrible falsehoods about roleplay into the unwitting minds of the viewers.

Not falsehoods, but expectations a large segment of the hobby is unwilling or unable to meet.

As I said before, what they're doing is Improv 101, only instead of an audience feeding them cues they have a GM. There's nothing wrong with this. In fact this is exactly how _I_ play, and think if you're not entertaining your fellow players you're doing it wrong. Thing is I more often than not have to seek out Improv clubs and non-gamers in order to do it. It may not be brain damage, but conditioning has left a lot of gamers seemingly unable to adapt. And if they enjoy what they're doing, they shouldn't have to.

What is a terrible falsehood is the idea that D&D provides the tools necessary to facilitate this kind of play. So new players get the books, (try to) follow the rules, and then wonder why they're not getting the expected results. This sort of dissonance is endemic in the RPG field, and too many designers get defensive when you ask them to address it. So success ends up being a product of random chance rather than selecting the right game.

Quote from: Shasarak;1077907It is too confusing to have two famous Matt's doing DnD stuff.  One of them has to change and I suggest some kind of Thunder Dome event.

Just two? Matt is the most ubiquitous name in the hobby.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077960I expect they will get 10-12 episodes made and flip that into a NetFlix deal.

I think you may be right

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1078015As I said before, what they're doing is Improv 101, only instead of an audience feeding them cues they have a GM. There's nothing wrong with this. In fact this is exactly how _I_ play, and think if you're not entertaining your fellow players you're doing it wrong. Thing is I more often than not have to seek out Improv clubs and non-gamers in order to do it. It may not be brain damage, but conditioning has left a lot of gamers seemingly unable to adapt.

Reminds me of my game Sunday. A bunch of us roleplaying away happily, until a newbie interjects:

"Wait! Only the PC with the highest Charisma should talk to the NPC!"

He seemed to think that success would come from applying the biggest Persuasion bonus, whereas the way I run it a sufficiently good approach might not require any skill check at all.

Quote from: Shasarak;1077907It is too confusing to have two famous Matt's doing DnD stuff.  One of them has to change and I suggest some kind of Thunder Dome event.

Colville, Mercer. What's the difference?

Quote from: tenbones;1078052Colville, Mercer. What's the difference?

Colville is definitely a lot more old-school. He's also mainly about giving DM advice.

Quote from: Haffrung;1078059Colville is definitely a lot more old-school. He's also mainly about giving DM advice.

LOL I know. I'm being a twat.

Colville and Mercer are both better than average DM's with different styles for different folks.

I have no problem at all with D&D "shows," but CR, in particular, isn't really my jam. I've liked Mercer better in other stuff I've seen him in both as a player and as DM. CR is simply too melodramatic and overwrought for my tastes. I begrudge them nothing though, and I like to check in on the hijinks from time to time.

That said, I actually like watching (or listening) to other people play D&D because it's an entertaining time-killer at the gym, in the car, working, doing housework, etc. while simultaneously making me a better DM through example.

If nothing else they are good sources of inspiration.

I don't care how anyone makes a lot of money in a situation like this.  If they were to turn down the profit potential to stay pure I'd say they must have gotten some real holes in their head while playing, somehow.

Everyone thinks the line should be immediately where they've decided to stop; I don't see this as any different than when people who hadn't played D&D back in the day joined the OSR and proceeded to take what they liked of those games and change whatever they cared.  That wasn't what the first OSR creators expected, but we learned both to adapt, and also that it didn't really matter outside of giving us some fodder to grump every once in a while.  Just like WOTC didn't expect their poorly written license would unlock those editions.

He who profiteth on another's unintended consequence can't complain about the pie shifting in a way likewise unexpected

I ran into a woman at GC who got into D&D because her husband watched critical roll and she liked the show.  Her husband liked 1E, but ran 5E for her to match what she was seeing.  She came to GC and was trying out swords and wizardry, and saw my 1E books while we were standing in line for coffee, which struck up the conversation

She was excited to try S&W, and during the looong line wanted to hear about 1E.  By the end she wanted her husband to run his preferred 1E game instead of 5E.  So while the show might produce pop culture D&D fans, like the LOTR movies didn't cause everyone to rush out and buy the Semerillion (sp) or even the main books, it is also causing some to go deeper.  And she bought my coffee, so clearly they like to throw small change around

None of these people will give a shit about Pundits opinion, which will only serve to quarantine anyone who takes up that banner.  But why stop someone from learning the lesson?

Also: it's hard to use mobile here.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1077349In my videos, when I'm joking, I'm actually joking. When I'm enthusiastic about something, I'm sincerely enthusiastic. When I'm ranting mad, I'm honestly ranting mad. When I'm showing affection to my cats, it's a genuine level of affection.

If I was pretending to be SUPER DUPER SQUEE EXCITED about a game, or pretending to be SUPER DUPER GRUMPY MAD when I'm really not, or if I was making my cats fake-spontaneously get in the shot and then faking excessive affection toward them, and generally emoting the fuck out of the camera, then I'd be "acting" the way the CR actors are acting.

Oh please. You don't show your face, and conceal your name behind a facade. The facade is literally Pundit, and you call yourself the last boss of the internet shitlords. I mean seriously, please, NOBODY believes you're anything other than an act. We might LIKE your act, but you're definitely an act. Much more an act than these guys. You're like a theater actor to their television acting. You yell for the cheap seats in back.

Shoot, didn't you even admit you're an act in an interview with a guy visiting Uruguay?

Quote from: RoyR;1077856I fail to see the logic here. They are playing and streaming a game of DnD, it's get popular and they follow that up by selling dice, T-shirts and posters. And now they go further by basing one or more animated episodes on the characters they played. Which gets funded due to that a lot of people liked to follow the adventures of these characters.
Where do any of this invalidate that they played a game of DnD to start with?

You are correct. I believe we are observing envy. It's kinda ugly to watch.