Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1073999So, first of all, I like Matt Mercer. I think he's a nice guy. And a decent GM.

I've already given evidence above about how his "nice guy" persona is utterly fake. He's the "nice guy" who suggested everyone who didn't agree with him about the Kavanaugh hearings needed psychiatric intervention. He's the "nice guy" who pretends he wants to sit down and talk it out with me right after bragging about how he has me muted.

QuoteSo, if you attack Matt Mercer, Mr. Pundit, I would challenge you to elaborate a little more on these two points: How is this not D&D? And why would anyone be disappointed coming to a different D&D group, except for the lack of professional voice acting?

Did you watch my video? Was there anywhere that I said that Critical Role's game is "not D&D"? That's not what's at issue here. What it is, however, is people performing an improv theater show ABOUT a group of players playing D&D. Which is DIFFERENT from what the experience of just PLAYING D&D (rather than playing super excited super emotive chipper people that are super duper excited and emotional about playing a D&D game) is like.

Quote from: SHARK;1074130Greetings!

Wait a minute, please. When did roleplaying your character, "speaking in character" become some kind of exceptionally rarefied geek theater thing?
SHARK

Speaking in character is not a rarefied geek theatre thing. But people play D&D for a variety of reasons. Some like to master the rules and make kick-ass characters. Some like to do deep PC backstory. Some just show up and play. Some are just there for the beer and socializing.

I'd wager there very few D&D tables where everyone there cares deeply about PC backstory, speaks in character for virtually the entire session, never digress into off-game conversations, never fumble around with the rules, never get into long tactical debates, etc. And precious few GMs direct the whole affair like live theatre without ever looking up rules or pausing to figure something out.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1074274I've already given evidence above about how his "nice guy" persona is utterly fake. He's the "nice guy" who suggested everyone who didn't agree with him about the Kavanaugh hearings needed psychiatric intervention. He's the "nice guy" who pretends he wants to sit down and talk it out with me right after bragging about how he has me muted.

Isn't he from L.A.? Pretty sure peer pressure is quite intense in that place and in his line of business. Anyway, I don't want to get drawn into soap opera. What's between you and Mercer is none of my business, sir.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1074274Did you watch my video? Was there anywhere that I said that Critical Role's game is "not D&D"? That's not what's at issue here. What it is, however, is people performing an improv theater show ABOUT a group of players playing D&D. Which is DIFFERENT from what the experience of just PLAYING D&D (rather than playing super excited super emotive chipper people that are super duper excited and emotional about playing a D&D game) is like.

I don't understand what makes you think I haven't. When I asked "How is this not D&D?" this was obviously short form for "How is this not playing D&D?"

You were asked in #93:

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1070688Can you go into what some of the improv techniques these people are using? I don't see it when I watch so I'm curious.

Skimming over the thread I have not seen you provide any evidence-based answer. Please respond by providing links and timestamps so that we can verify how widespread this is - or isn't. Other than that, it's an unverified charge, null and void, I'm afraid.

Yeah I was interested in what people are saying but nobody ever actually gives examples.

Quote from: Haffrung;1074301Speaking in character is not a rarefied geek theatre thing. But people play D&D for a variety of reasons. Some like to master the rules and make kick-ass characters. Some like to do deep PC backstory. Some just show up and play. Some are just there for the beer and socializing.

I'd wager there very few D&D tables where everyone there cares deeply about PC backstory, speaks in character for virtually the entire session, never digress into off-game conversations, never fumble around with the rules, never get into long tactical debates, etc. And precious few GMs direct the whole affair like live theatre without ever looking up rules or pausing to figure something out.

Greetings!

LOL! Haffrung! I see what you're saying there. Of course, there's all of that which you mentioned. I agree. I was just reacting to some kind of perception that there was something wrong or suspicious, or unbelievable about players speaking in character, developing detailed backstory, and otherwise caring about their character.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1074315Yeah I was interested in what people are saying but nobody ever actually gives examples.

I'm not discounting what pundit says but I'm not going to kavanaugh Mercer, no matter his political views.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1074315Yeah I was interested in what people are saying but nobody ever actually gives examples.

Its like flat earthers. The truth that its fake is obvious. The actors are insincere untrustworthy. Any time Mercer gives gaming advice is just further proof of how untrustworthy he is.

Ive been doing improv for over ten years so if Pundit could just provide an example video or timecode to look at I can see what improv techniques they are using. But Pundit has a habit of making authoritative claims like this and avoiding any specific answers when challenged.

Quote from: Haffrung;1074301Speaking in character is not a rarefied geek theatre thing. But people play D&D for a variety of reasons....

I'd wager there very few D&D tables where everyone there cares deeply about PC backstory, speaks in character for virtually the entire session, never digress into off-game conversations, never fumble around with the rules, never get into long tactical debates, etc. And precious few GMs direct the whole affair like live theatre without ever looking up rules or pausing to figure something out.[/I]

This.

Critical Role episodes are obviously staged sessions. I watched one. They are just too damn smooth.

Not that there isn't some actual 'game' in there. The character death kinda showed that - but it is also very much a type of improve theater with a D&D game being used as their plot generator.

Now the degree to which they are staged is very much up for debate.

But a smooth as it is I wouldn't be surprised if they all reviewed an outline of some kind before play.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1074303I don't understand what makes you think I haven't. When I asked "How is this not D&D?" this was obviously short form for "How is this not playing D&D?"

And I already answered what I MEANT (rather than your strawman line of questioning) in the very post you just quoted.

QuoteYou were asked in #93:


Skimming over the thread I have not seen you provide any evidence-based answer. Please respond by providing links and timestamps so that we can verify how widespread this is - or isn't. Other than that, it's an unverified charge, null and void, I'm afraid.

It's not my job to teach you improv theater. Or for that matter, to keep arguing with you when it's clear you're arguing in bad faith and nothing whatsoever would change your mind.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1074509It's not my job to teach you improv theater. Or for that matter, to keep arguing with you when it's clear you're arguing in bad faith and nothing whatsoever would change your mind.

There we go, classic sidestep. See also SJW 'It's not my job to educate you, you are obviously a bad faith arguer'. Not even a video reference? That doesn't seem like a huge effort, considering you must have watched some of Critical Role to make your video. Or even an example from memory?

I've played RPGs with actors and improvisers, and actors do get more into character and perform more, because its a skill they have. Stage actors are easier to hear in crowded conventions or game rooms because they project more. Fake talking? Or just naturally using skills they have learned in their everyday life?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1074509It's not my job to teach you improv theater. Or for that matter, to keep arguing with you when it's clear you're arguing in bad faith and nothing whatsoever would change your mind.

You're not helping your case, I'm afraid. If you make public accusations against someone else, it's incumbent on you to demonstrate the validity of your charges. It's not incumbent on me to do any kind of research.
Also, your response here undermines your credibility - by demonstrating that you are prone to jumping to conclusions. False conclusions at that.

Quote from: Verdant;1074517There we go, classic sidestep. See also SJW 'It's not my job to educate you, you are obviously a bad faith arguer'. Not even a video reference? That doesn't seem like a huge effort, considering you must have watched some of Critical Role to make your video. Or even an example from memory?

I've played RPGs with actors and improvisers, and actors do get more into character and perform more, because its a skill they have. Stage actors are easier to hear in crowded conventions or game rooms because they project more. Fake talking? Or just naturally using skills they have learned in their everyday life?

That's the thing. I watch them and they just seem to be using their normal acting skills from their jobs to make their RPing more colorful and that's why it's smooth. But that doesn't mean it's faked.

Also, a lot of it is just from doing this for 2 years. Everyone says Critical Role in its early days was a mess.

Quote from: Verdant;1074517There we go, classic sidestep. See also SJW 'It's not my job to educate you, you are obviously a bad faith arguer'. Not even a video reference? That doesn't seem like a huge effort, considering you must have watched some of Critical Role to make your video. Or even an example from memory?

I've played RPGs with actors and improvisers, and actors do get more into character and perform more, because its a skill they have. Stage actors are easier to hear in crowded conventions or game rooms because they project more. Fake talking? Or just naturally using skills they have learned in their everyday life?

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1074523You're not helping your case, I'm afraid. If you make public accusations against someone else, it's incumbent on you to demonstrate the validity of your charges. It's not incumbent on me to do any kind of research.
Also, your response here undermines your credibility - by demonstrating that you are prone to jumping to conclusions. False conclusions at that.

Once you guys hang here a month, you'll realize that this is the Pundit's MO, he makes grand assertions, never backs them up and then accuses others of maligning him.  Watch out for his hangers-on, they'll do the same.  But really, they're harmless and you're allowed to have your own opinions here, even if no one will agree with them.

Quote from: Haffrung;1074301I'd wager there very few D&D tables where everyone there cares deeply about PC backstory, speaks in character for virtually the entire session, never digress into off-game conversations, never fumble around with the rules, never get into long tactical debates, etc. And precious few GMs direct the whole affair like live theatre without ever looking up rules or pausing to figure something out.

But the last point can't be about Critical Role, as Matt Mercer definitely picks up the rulebooks from time to time to look something up. (Or the cellphone to look it up online.) What he does really well though is that he often makes a quick ruling, even if not perfectly RAW, and keeps the game going. And the group is really good in accepting the GMs ruling, and keep themselves from arguing at the table. This makes for a smooth game that is not bogged down on details, and something that I would recommend for most RPG games.

And he is really fortunate in having been able to collect a group of players that are really interested in the style of RPG that they are playing, who (mostly) keeps a focus on the game and (also mostly) refrains from metagaming, also known as "tactical debates".

They're actors, so obviously they're predisposed to have their tastes run in that direction. It's not really unlikely at all. Like if you had a bunch of military guys being really into war gaming.

Also they DO have off topic conversations and you can see Matt get annoyed when it happens.

People should actually watch them play instead of what they imagine is happening.

They even had a That Guy™ that would argue with Matt and try to powergame everything that they had to kick out.