I just found Colville, and am looking at some of his videos.  Haven't watched any of his "actual play" stuff, and doubt I'll give it much attention, but the rest of his content, I'm liking.

Quote from: Haffrung;1073000Those worried about Critical Role steering the presumed mode of play for new players in a direction they don't like should take comfort in Matt Colville's new streaming game. Colville is a hugely influential guy in the hobby, and his mode of play is much more traditional.

I just watched a few minutes - damn that was boring! Definitely a real game going on there!

Yeah, Colville is boring. Which is hugely less awful than Mercer, who is outright terrible.

Quote from: kythri;1073012I just found Colville, and am looking at some of his videos.  Haven't watched any of his "actual play" stuff, and doubt I'll give it much attention, but the rest of his content, I'm liking.

I remember when Colville was just starting out. This was like late-ish 2015 I think. He did an ongoing series on the history of older D&D (1st and 2nd ed) via longform book delving and chargen. You could tell even then he was REALLY into D&D and that specific mix of medieval-ish culture and warfare flavored with copious anachronisms. He defo wasn't aiming to do what he's doing now and he was on hiatus for awhile but he got back and better than ever.

The real shame is that Colville has taken over from where Noah Antweiler left (or dropped off the map...) and he's just not in the same league and his stories just sound like something you'd get RPG.SE or something. Defo no Counter Monkey. He's done good in talking about actually useful techniques and concepts for new GMs though, I'll give him that.
 

Quote from: S'mon;1073020I just watched a few minutes - damn that was boring! Definitely a real game going on there!

You'll probably like these guys better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT_ysdpg17s&index=1&list=PL4IScHuOGRjYfD-pRygwXnMtf8TUgRZlc

YouTube recommended links strikes again! They're a bit old for me (30s-40s) but I've played in UK groups like this so it's pretty authentic and nice to hear in the background when doing chores and stuff.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1073274Yeah, Colville is boring. Which is hugely less awful than Mercer, who is outright terrible.

It's funny: when Mercer was first starting out doing the CR thing, his and Colville's game really weren't that different. In fact, Colville's (and many others) is an appropriation of Mercer's original format (which itself was a in-the-flesh variant of the burgeoning live play scene on YT at the time). I genuinely think if Mercer's show had only done the quarter of that first season or so (because season 1 was essentially two or three seasons sandwiched together) that you would not have an issue with it.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1073651I genuinely think if Mercer's show had only done the quarter of that first season or so (because season 1 was essentially two or three seasons sandwiched together) that you would not have an issue with it.

This is generally true of any show -- whether on YouTube, cable, Hulu, etc. Every show that persists beyond the life of the good idea that spawned it inevitably jumps the shark soon thereafter.

Quote from: shuddemell;1070623I am somewhat curious, as this simulacrum seems to be more and more common among many hobbies. Is this really a larger societal trend that people prefer to watch an experience rather than to live it? And if so, what does it say about the current state of our culture?

Poker vlogs seem to be fairly popular. I know people who have pretty much given up playing but still watch the vlogs. They both say that they are using them to learn so that they can play better when they resume. I don't know of any bridge vlogs but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

I've started listening to the Glass Cannon Podcast and it's an entertaining mix of theatrical and real play.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1072292Edition warring is gatekeeping, by saying 'your version is better' and those who don't agree with you are doing it 'wrong'.  That is gate keeping.  I don't care if you don't like it, it's still gate keeping.  Deal with it.



No, because it's clear you didn't think it through.  Most games will tell you to 'play it your' way, the whole 'Rule Zero' thing:  If the game is doing something you or your group doesn't like, you have every right to change it in a manner that makes you all happy.  After all, it's your game.

The only two games/movements that do otherwise are the OSR/Old School (did you read Gronan's response to Spinachcat's desire for an array for his older edition game?) and White Wolf's Storyteller system.  The former proclaims that there was this mystical One True Way that everyone played back in the day, and the other has built in mechanics that punish you for going outside the lines (the Humanity system.)

If they are saying that, and I haven't seen it, they are wrong. At least in the New Haven area, everyone called what they were playing D&D and only one DM I played with came close to rules as written. There was probably more probably variety in mechanics in the six campaigns I played in or talked to people about than in six OSR games picked at random. My game wasn't even the farthest from RaW.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1071632Then to top it all off, because an essential part of Mercer's FAKE PERSONA is being a "nice guy" he tweets about how he just wishes he could sit down with me and talk and then we could understand each other. But he did this minutes after he was just bragging about how he can't see my posts because he has me Muted.

That is indeed poor form.

Quote from: sureshot;1071831I have yet to find a setting where the core values is just characters being quirky hipsters or tragic victims.

If such a thing were released the target demographic would likely feel victimized by it no matter how favorable the representations were. Because these people aren't a market, they're a liability, and catering to them is just a backstab waiting to happen.

Quote from: cranebump;1071914Sounds like you're pissed because he has you on mute.

To be fair, blocking someone and then claiming you want to have a discussion with them is the definition of disingenuous.

Quote from: Mistwell;1072075Mercer gets a lot of attention, so Pundit is bashing him to gain attention for himself. It's not more complicated than that. Pundit is trying to ride Mercer's coat tails, sort of like CNN rides Trump's coat tails.

I do think it's slightly more complicated than that.

Just slightly.

Quote from: Mistwell;1072075It could be Pundy is pissed Mercer is stealing his shtick. After all, The RPG Pundit is itself an act.

Which is a fair cop considering Pundit's primary complaint is that Mercer isn't genuine.

Quote from: kythri;1072228And, I'd point out, that this is nothing new.  I've been here 9-10 years, and from the get-go, people have been calling Pundy out because they disagree with him.  Ironically, more often than not, time proves him correct.

This is not wrong.

Quote from: camazotz;1072288I never watched Critical Role before listening to Pundit's video. After watching a few, I am left with interesting questions about what Pundit thinks the DM's job is.

He should make a video about this.

Quote from: Haffrung;1072562In my experience, when people on social media these days use the term 'community' in reference to hobbies, there are usually two things going on:

1) They're preparing the ground to start enforcing social norms, where declarations of commitment to certain stances on social issues will become mandatory to be included in the community.
2) They really mean 'market', but using the word 'community' is a nicer way to get lonely people to feel they're part of something bigger than themselves so they don't mind being treated like customers.  

Turning an online group into a 'community' basically lubricates a push towards making it conformist, commercial, and performative.

Well said.

To add, a real community doesn't just depend on shared values but also needs. An RPG community formed on #GooglePlus because it met those needs by providing video conferencing, plugins for dice and the like, and scheduling. Once those were gone the only reason to stick around was because everybody else was already there, which is why now that #GooglePlus itself is going away the community is falling apart instead of cohesively moving to another platform.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1073651The real shame is that Colville has taken over from where Noah Antweiler left (or dropped off the map...)

Speaking of which...

Anon I think you may have misquoted me in your latest post. It's OK and I feel honored it's not everyday one is misquoted by a angry bird

So, first of all, I like Matt Mercer. I think he's a nice guy. And a decent GM.

Secondly, I don't understand the problem of the "Mercer Effect" at all. For two reasons:

First of all, I consider Critical Role to be D&D. If you don't, then you should have gone into greater detail why it's not. For me (from what little I have seen), it looks a great deal like standard role-playing. Do they focus a bit less on rules and mechanics and numbers than normal? Yes. Do they come in fired up, hyping each other on good rolls or going "Oh no" for the camera on bad rolls? Yes. But it's still D&D.
Secondly, it's not even amazing role-playing sessions overall. I think Mercer is a fairly good GM. His strong side is clearly portraying different characters with voice and facial expressions. That part of his GMing is amazingly entertaining. But beyond that? He's average. Not bad, just average. When it comes to plot and pacing combats and handling challenges, etc. ... he does nothing that I or or any of my friends couldn't do as good or better. On top of that, he does the kind of D&D/WoW-style fantasy that is not my thing at all. ANd the role-playing of the players again shows their professional talent but overall, if you disregard the voice-acting, it's nothing special either.

So, in short, except for the voice-acting Critical Role has nothing that I don't find equally good (or better) in my gaming community (well, I suppose they have nice dungeons with minis but I'm considering Theatre of Mind superior anyway). And except for some compromises that goes with doing a professional internet show, it's pretty much normal role-playing. Prove me wrong.

So, if you attack Matt Mercer, Mr. Pundit, I would challenge you to elaborate a little more on these two points: How is this not D&D? And why would anyone be disappointed coming to a different D&D group, except for the lack of professional voice acting?

As long as you cannot demonstrate that, Matt Mercer has no responsibility to come out and confess to anything.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1073999So, if you attack Matt Mercer, Mr. Pundit, I would challenge you to elaborate a little more on these two points: How is this not D&D? And why would anyone be disappointed coming to a different D&D group, except for the lack of professional voice acting?

As long as you cannot demonstrate that, Matt Mercer has no responsibility to come out and confess to anything.

Read this thread, then come back.

It's a big thread.

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Quote from: RPGPundit;1070927But where you fail is that he didn't keep quiet, he answered in a way that was essentially a LIE.

Or maybe he disagrees with you that it's all that different from a normal D&D session. The main differences being

• professional voice acting
• unnaturally constant cheeriness
• unnatural high attention span
• stylish gaming board and minis, I guess

Doesn't sound too different. If anyone has got something of substance to add, feel free to do so.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1074009It's a big thread.

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LOL

and welcome to the Rpgsite