I just posted over in the News forum that Autarch has launched the Kickstarter for their mass combat system and it got me thinking...how many people here have run mass combat in D&D (or clone games)?

I used to use War Machine for handling really large battles, but for middling stuff I never had one solution. Battle System, Battle System Skirmish, the rules from the AD&D 2nd Castle Guide, rules from the Advanced Player's Handbook, just throwing around lots of dice...I never really found anything that completely satisfied me, including War Machine, which always seemed a little bit disconnected from the rest of the RPG (I have the same feelings about Chainmail from the few times I've looked at it).

TSR era D&D always had the advantage of the combat rules being simple enough that you could run battles with quite a few participants (dozens, at least) without the game bogging down too much (having lots of dice handy helped).

What have others used for resolving combats with large (or enourmous) numbers of participants? What have you liked or disliked about those systems? At what point do you feel the need for something other than the basic combat rules?

I've used Troll Lords' Fields of Battle. And I like it a lot.

While it says that it's for large scale warfare, I've used it for skirmish type encounters where there are 20 or so individuals per side and it worked great.

Since it complies with the D&D API it's pretty easy to use with any OSR variant. For example, I've used it with Swords & Wizardry PCs.

What don't I like about it? Only that I wish it had more support.

I've used the Army of Darkness RPG mass combat rules on several occasions.

I successfully used GURPS Mass Combat and 1st Edition BattleSystems for AD&D 1st Edition.

Of the two GURPS Mass Combat is more tabletop friendly.

Quote from: TristramEvans;648847I've used the Army of Darkness RPG mass combat rules on several occasions.

I have zero familiarity with the Army of Darkness RPG; is it D20 based? Would the mass combat rules be portable to other games (and is that what you're saying you did)?

Quote from: estar;648872I successfully used GURPS Mass Combat and 1st Edition BattleSystems for AD&D 1st Edition.

Of the two GURPS Mass Combat is more tabletop friendly.

I'm familiar with both editions of BattleSystem...what specifically makes GURPS mass combat "more tabletop friendly?"

Quote from: Bobloblah;648873I have zero familiarity with the Army of Darkness RPG; is it D20 based? Would the mass combat rules be portable to other games (and is that what you're saying you did)?

It uses the Eden Game's house system, "unisystem" I think its called, the same one used for the RPGs Witchcraft, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, and the Buffy game. The closest current game system to it would be the new Dr. Who rpg. Its not d20-based, but its pretty easily adaptable.

I indeed ported the system to another game, in my case the house-ruled variation of FASERIP that I use to run Call of Cthulhu these days. I can probably post my conversion notes here , maybe tomorrow morning before work.

I've been reading some historical fiction with character-scale focus on the action which has made me wonder about mass combat in RPGs. In my group, we basically handwave stuff going on beyond the scale of the PCs, with their actions affecting the direction and flow of events depending on what they choose to do, but nothing rigorous behind it.

Most of the mass combat systems I've seen in RPGs have generally been terrible (Exalted's comes to mind). Are there any that are good? Are there any stand-alone mass combat systems that could be easily plugged into another system entirely?

I'm after something that distinguishes between types of opponent (cavalry, infantry, etc), grades (light/medium/heavy), experience, morale and so on. And one which can allow PCs to impact things, either as "officers" or else as special sorts of units. I'm less interested in magic being involved, I've got a historical game in mind.

If it has naval combat too, bonus.

I used the D&D RC War Machine a couple of times, to good effect. It was fun.

I'm making my way through the humongous Domains At War completed draft that's been made avaliable for backers. It's intimidating at times, but like everything else with ACKS, it looks incredibly comprehensive and consistent.

Quote from: Eisenmann;648814I've used Troll Lords' Fields of Battle. And I like it a lot.

What is it like? I was curious about this a while ago.

Quote from: Kiero;648905Most of the mass combat systems I've seen in RPGs have generally been terrible (Exalted's comes to mind). Are there any that are good? Are there any stand-alone mass combat systems that could be easily plugged into another system entirely?

Have a look at the ACKS: Domains at War Starter edition. It's available for free on Drive-Thru RPG. If that's not detailed enough, consider supporting the Kickstarter; a $1 pledge gives you access to the completed drafts of the full version.

Quote from: Kiero;648905I'm after something that distinguishes between types of opponent (cavalry, infantry, etc), grades (light/medium/heavy), experience, morale and so on. And one which can allow PCs to impact things, either as "officers" or else as special sorts of units. I'm less interested in magic being involved, I've got a historical game in mind.

If it has naval combat too, bonus.

I know the designer has mentioned using Domains at War to run historical battles, and having the system work quite well.

Quote from: TristramEvans;648883It uses the Eden Game's house system, "unisystem" I think its called, the same one used for the RPGs Witchcraft, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, and the Buffy game. The closest current game system to it would be the new Dr. Who rpg. Its not d20-based, but its pretty easily adaptable.

I indeed ported the system to another game, in my case the house-ruled variation of FASERIP that I use to run Call of Cthulhu these days. I can probably post my conversion notes here , maybe tomorrow morning before work.

The Cinematic Unisystem Mass Combat rules originated in Savage Worlds (the rules were written by Shane Hensley, who also wrote the AoD RPG).

My personal favorite set of Mass Combat rules.

Quote from: Bobloblah;648874I'm familiar with both editions of BattleSystem...what specifically makes GURPS mass combat "more tabletop friendly?"

It doesn't need to play out as a hex and counter wargame or miniature wargame. You setup your forces on paper, select a handful of options both overall and for individual PCs and the battle is resolved in a couple of rolls.

PCs can contribute in an abstractly to the actual battle (by acting as a special force) but their biggest impact is in the recon phase where a small group can give their a side a good bonus. Mass Combat goes into how to turn this aspect into an adventure.

It level of detail is just right. You can see how to generate the armies from whatever demographic stats you keep for your setting but it doesn't bog down in minute details.

Also GURPS Mass Combat 4e is still pretty much the same system that GURPS been using since it debuted in the old Pyramid and GURPS Conan

Quote from: Bobloblah;648788I just posted over in the News forum that Autarch has launched the Kickstarter for their mass combat system and it got me thinking...how many people here have run mass combat in D&D (or clone games)?

Long ago I used a abstract system from one of the C&S (1e) Sourcebooks, then I used War Machine from BECMI. These days I still use War Machine as it works well and isn't too complex. I have the free version of Domains at War, but haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Quote from: The Butcher;648948[Fields of Battle] What is it like? I was curious about this a while ago.

It's a scaleable wargame that uses the attack and save mechanics of Castles & Crusades.

Attaching a PC to a unit is meaningful. Their class and level are meaningful. Knights are indeed leaders of men.

Scaled back to skirmish level it looks like but doesn't necessarily feel like Savage Worlds with minis/stones/what-have-you representing individuals on a 1:1 basis.

I've scaled it up using Warmaster 15mm figs representing thousands per side and turns were about as fast as at skirmish level.

Quote from: Bobloblah;649029Have a look at the ACKS: Domains at War Starter edition. It's available for free on Drive-Thru RPG. If that's not detailed enough, consider supporting the Kickstarter; a $1 pledge gives you access to the completed drafts of the full version.


I know the designer has mentioned using Domains at War to run historical battles, and having the system work quite well.

Hmmm, it's almost there; it doesn't do the whole conflict in a single roll like a few of the systems out there, but it's still at an aggregate level. Ideally I'd like something that gets down to the unit level, like in a wargame (maybe I need a wargame?), so for example we might have one PC in charge of the heavy infantry, another leading the foot skirmishers and two others still leading the wings of cavalry. With each able to pursue their own foes in the context of the wider battle.