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Masks of Nyarlathotep (Editions Question)

Started by Bedrockbrendan, April 25, 2018, 09:56:19 AM

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grodog

Quote from: rmeints;1039683Let me expand on that just a bit, without hopefully sounding too petty, too trite, or attempting to grandstand.

We at the Chaosium have overhauled all manner of things within the company over the last 3 years. In some respects, almost everything.

We have seriously and intentionally "upped" our game. Our books are now all full color hardcover books. We pay more attention to art, editing, and layout. We have tried to communicate and connect more with the RPG community, which is our family. We listen. We respond. We pay our creatives on time and in full. We reach out to our critics and try to understand what they are telling us. We make mistakes. We are not perfect. We strive to have fun. We have always invested ourselves in our games, as many of you have. In the end, we only wish we had more time to talk with you all more.

Rick:  you've all done a great job with Chaosium, and it's wonderful to see the company back on track!

Allan.
grodog
---
Allan Grohe
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Atsuku Nare

Quote from: grodog;1039690Rick:  you've all done a great job with Chaosium, and it's wonderful to see the company back on track!

Allan.

Hear, hear!
Playing: 1st-ED Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (Elf Wizard), D&D 5E, halfling thief
Running: nothing at present
Planning: Call of Cthulhu 7E, Adventurer Conqueror King, Warhammer FRP 4E, Torg: Eternity
On Hiatus: Earthdawn, Shadow of the Demon Lord

RPGPundit

Quote from: rmeints;1039681That was not intentional. Many small details in the campaign have been modified to fix plot holes, inconsistencies, and other issues reported.

But not to whitewash elements that certain ideological sectors of society have declared "offensive"?
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rmeints

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040016But not to whitewash elements that certain ideological sectors of society have declared "offensive"?

I can't say I know exactly what you are getting at, but the answer to what I believe you are asking is "no".
Rick Meints
Chaosium

RPGPundit

Quote from: rmeints;1040278I can't say I know exactly what you are getting at, but the answer to what I believe you are asking is "no".

Good to hear.
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waltshumate

#50
Quote from: rmeints;1040278I can't say I know exactly what you are getting at, but the answer to what I believe you are asking is "no".

Things like this:


QuoteMasks assault you with scores of two-dimensional NPCS, illogical motives (take for example the dancing girl Yalesha, who'se behaviour is so illogical we lost at least three seances trying to figure what she was up to - why would an unclad woman seek help from total strangers found in a bar, risking her life for noughts?) and excessive violence. Passing through an episode without massive shoot-outs (shoot the zombie, shoot the shantaks, etc.) is quite impossible. After three painful episodes of the most linear sort trying to find where ANOTHER cult was hidden by ANOTHER vile member of a stereotypical ethnic groups (this book suffering both from extreme cultural reductionnism and scores of the "little n*gger servant" colonial syndrome), we decided it was too much after stepping into a strange pyramid where any simpleton could conjure Nyarlathotep (with a so kitsch dialogue, you'd believe yourself in "The Mummy II") with a simple ligthting of a candle.

QuoteFor starters, most of us propably agree, that Lovecraft was a raving racist and this has heavily influenced his work. ("degenerate" people in many stories meaning not "mutant" but "Person of Color", harmful stereotypes all around, hidden implications of race-mixing being a horrific thing etc).

 And secondly, the campaign heavily borrows many of the themes of such stories, as well as from tales and movies in the vein of Indiana Jones, where we find simillar racism (There is a reason India banned Indiana Jones 2 for quite some time. The movie does not paint people from the region in a very good light).
.


QuoteNew York - A cult made up mostly of black Americans of African descent that uses its time for murder and bloody rituals, burried deep within Harlem and controled by what one could describe as a "stereotypical Voodoo priest" (another very harmful trope)

London - As above, with a bigger number of wealthy white individuals and corruption involved for a change.

Egypt - As above, but the culprits are not immigrants but natives, strongly suggesting the players to fear for every person they meet to be a cultist, continuing the "evil arab" trope from Indiana Jones & co.

Kenia - First we have evil men from India (the only people from this part of the world notably), then the completely mind-blowing masses of cultists at the mountain (again - all natives will be suspected) in a state of complete madness.

The side adventure "The Game Lodge" adds to the pile of problems with pygmy-like human-eating creatures.

Kenia is a racist mess :/

QuoteIncluding People of Color and people native to the countries where the action takes place brings a new perspective into the game. But beware that this can also lead to severe racism between investigators.

Make the non-black portion of the cult in New York much bigger, including more whites from the working class, but also some rich people interested in the occult. There was a huge following of occult themes in that time, with secret organizations and simillar groups being quite popular.

While leaving the center of worhip somewhere deep within Harlem makes sense (it is well hidden that way), let there be an unusual number of white peiple visiting compared to the rest of the neighborhood.

Take out the stereotypical evil voodoo priest

What we have in the Campaign is more reminiscent of a xenophopic nightmare made real, immigrants bringing with them an evil religion that seeks to destroy the good Americans. Nyarlatothep does not stop making people mad just because they are rich or white. Showing this blasphemous cult also attracting what one would call "good citizens" makes clear that nobody is safe from the horrors it brings. Do not make this "Horror at Red Hook 2.0".





QuoteDo not make it seems like most african tribes are wild barbaric cultists, except for a few enlightened ones. That is very lazy racism.
Don't make M'Weru into a walking stereotype. She is presented as a vile, manipulative evil woman that uses her powers to control a white man and helps create some pregnancy horror. This idea in itself is overly sexist and racist at the same time, and should be handled with care.
Obviously the amount of power she has in her cult could easily lead her to live as basically what is described above, but I think it serves the plot to give her some personality outside of "suductive evil witch". I'm not yet sure how to best accomplish this without changing major aspects of her.

RPGPundit

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Dimitrios

@51: That's why I'm not too worried about them making a Bowlderized version of MoN: I don't think it's practically possible. The only way to make it "unproblematic" by 2018 standards would be to write an entirely different campaign.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Dimitrios;1042004@51: That's why I'm not too worried about them making a Bowlderized version of MoN: I don't think it's practically possible. The only way to make it "unproblematic" by 2018 standards would be to write an entirely different campaign.

Let's hope they realize that, and don't bother messing up a classic to satisfy the demands of some ideological fanatics.
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Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Hermes Serpent

Chaosium's ideological fanatics all gather round Glorantha. Don't go near the BRP Central site or you'll pass out at the grognardia and one-true-wayism on display.

Dimitrios

Well this - http://www.hplhs.org/dartmon.php - could be interesting. Apparently the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society is adapting MoN as a radio drama. Their adaptation of Call of Cthulhu as a 20s era silent movie was excellent. I'll probably have to check this out.

Motorskills

Quote from: Dimitrios;1042942Well this - http://www.hplhs.org/dartmon.php - could be interesting. Apparently the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society is adapting MoN as a radio drama. Their adaptation of Call of Cthulhu as a 20s era silent movie was excellent. I'll probably have to check this out.

Thanks for sharing! :)
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Nerzenjäger

I'm really not sure if CoC is a game for people who can't handle Lovecraft's world views.
"You play Conan, I play Gandalf.  We team up to fight Dracula." - jrients

RPGPundit

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043275I'm really not sure if CoC is a game for people who can't handle Lovecraft's world views.

Yeah, really.
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Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

waltshumate

#59
So the answer is yes they did go for appeasement.

"In addition, the text has been revised to reduce stereotypical portrayals of differing ethnicities; cults recruit from those willing to serve, not necessarily on ethnic lines. Equally, women can be cultists too; the profiles for differing cultists do not assume they are all male."

Remove some stereotypes  and then add others such as the wrongfully accused African American war hero on death row and the fat white cop that put him there.