Quote from: jcfiala;1037488How is "Divide by 5 or multiply by 5" a shitty call on their part?

It's a meaningless change.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037656It's a meaningless change.

Are you having trouble with your memory?

You said:

Quote from: RPGPunditYeah, backward compatibility was genius. This is a really shitty call on their part.

Which suggests that the new edition is not backwards compatible.  Now you're saying it's a meaningless change, which implies it is backwards compatible.

Choose a side - is 7th edition backwards compatible or not?

The layout for the new edition of Masks of Nyarlathotep is over 95% complete, with only our final quality reviews remaining. Due to an increase in the size of the campaign and the additional background provided, it will be sold as a slipcase set of 2 hardcover books and a handout pack. It is very comparable in size to the 7th edition slipcase set we produced. The two books containing the complete campaign will be 384 pages and 288 pages in length (we would have loved one book, but the page count was too high to avoid potential binding problems.) The player handouts pack is also sizable, which is one of the biggest differences between this edition and all pervious editions of Masks.

As for the 7th edition Call of Cthulhu rules being backwards compatible, in general, we describe it as being backwards compatible. Converting older material is neither difficult nor time consuming. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide how backwards compatible it is. If you are interested in seeing what has changed, here's a link to the free PDF containing 6 pages of conversion notes and examples: https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/CoC%207/CHA23135-Conv%20-%20Call%20of%20Cthulhu%207th%20Edition%20Conversion%20Guidelines.pdf

Quote from: jcfiala;1037693Are you having trouble with your memory?

You said:



Which suggests that the new edition is not backwards compatible.  Now you're saying it's a meaningless change, which implies it is backwards compatible.

Choose a side - is 7th edition backwards compatible or not?

From what I heard, that was NOT the only change. There was also change in the way investigations are handled.  Was that not true?

Also, that's still not compatible without adjustment, however small.

Quote from: rmeints;1037807The layout for the new edition of Masks of Nyarlathotep is over 95% complete, with only our final quality reviews remaining. Due to an increase in the size of the campaign and the additional background provided, it will be sold as a slipcase set of 2 hardcover books and a handout pack. It is very comparable in size to the 7th edition slipcase set we produced. The two books containing the complete campaign will be 384 pages and 288 pages in length (we would have loved one book, but the page count was too high to avoid potential binding problems.) The player handouts pack is also sizable, which is one of the biggest differences between this edition and all pervious editions of Masks.

As for the 7th edition Call of Cthulhu rules being backwards compatible, in general, we describe it as being backwards compatible. Converting older material is neither difficult nor time consuming. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide how backwards compatible it is. If you are interested in seeing what has changed, here's a link to the free PDF containing 6 pages of conversion notes and examples: https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/CoC%207/CHA23135-Conv%20-%20Call%20of%20Cthulhu%207th%20Edition%20Conversion%20Guidelines.pdf

I appreciate very much your comment here, and welcome to theRPGsite!

I'm betting you aren't interested in getting into a debate here about compatibility, and I won't impose one on you.

Instead, what I'd be curious to know is what new material is in the new edition of Masks.  Are there new locations? More material for the adventure itself?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038003I appreciate very much your comment here, and welcome to theRPGsite!

I'm betting you aren't interested in getting into a debate here about compatibility, and I won't impose one on you.

Instead, what I'd be curious to know is what new material is in the new edition of Masks.  Are there new locations? More material for the adventure itself?

Thank you for the welcome. I've been a reader here for a number of years, but I have seldom posted. While I love a good debate, I'd prefer to let each person decide how backwards compatible the 7th edition of Call of Cthulhu is for themselves. I personally view backwards compatibility as an important thing. I have no doubt that people will have widely differing beliefs on how much you can change a game before it is no longer backwards compatible for them. I will say this though, since the 7th edition came out we have received a lot of feedback on it from a lot of people. In general, the feedback and reviews have been fairly positive, especially from those that have given it a thorough run through at the game table. To make giving it a try as easy as possible we have a free PDF of the 7th edition Quickstart and a free PDF solo adventure on our website.

As for the new material that is in the new edition of Masks, here's a rundown:

The previous edition of Masks was 248 pages. The new edition is 672 pages. While the layout has been overhauled, the word count per page hasn't substantially changed.

A 44 page chapter with a "prologue" adventure set in darkest Peru has been added.
The New York adventure chapter increased from 27 pages to 78 pages, with 4 additional handouts.
The London adventure chapter increased from 33 pages to 116 pages, with 8 additional handouts.
The Egypt adventure chapter increased from 41 pages to 90 pages, with 2 additional handouts.
The Kenya adventure chapter increased from 30 pages to 64 pages, with 2 additional handouts.
The Australia adventure chapter increased from 39 pages to 70 pages, with 3 additional handouts.
The China adventure chapter increased from 42 pages to 100 pages, with 4 additional handouts.

Each chapter has additional scenario material, but I don't feel I should elaborate for fear of revealing potential spoilers.
There are clue diagrams to help the GM in each chapter.
There are more maps, better maps, and player map handouts.
There's more art, and more of it is in full color.
A number of the original handouts just said something like "photo of a ship" as opposed to now actually being a period photo of the ship.
Speaking of period (historical) photos, we've added lots more of them.
Throughout the book there is boxed text for how to run the adventure in "Pulp Cthulhu" style.
There is a 6 page Travel appendix.
There is a 9 page Spell appendix.
There is a 10 page Tome Appendix.
There is a 6 page Artifacts appendix.
Lastly, the index has been expanded from 2 pages to 9 pages because we added a lot more references to make it easier to find stuff.

Quote from: rmeints;1038084The previous edition of Masks was 248 pages. The new edition is 672 pages. While the layout has been overhauled, the word count per page hasn't substantially changed.

A 44 page chapter with a "prologue" adventure set in darkest Peru has been added.
The New York adventure chapter increased from 27 pages to 78 pages, with 4 additional handouts.
The London adventure chapter increased from 33 pages to 116 pages, with 8 additional handouts.
The Egypt adventure chapter increased from 41 pages to 90 pages, with 2 additional handouts.
The Kenya adventure chapter increased from 30 pages to 64 pages, with 2 additional handouts.
The Australia adventure chapter increased from 39 pages to 70 pages, with 3 additional handouts.
The China adventure chapter increased from 42 pages to 100 pages, with 4 additional handouts.

:eek: How long did it take to play through in the play test? The old version was already a big commitment if you wanted to get all the way through.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038002From what I heard, that was NOT the only change. There was also change in the way investigations are handled.  Was that not true?

Also, that's still not compatible without adjustment, however small.

Well, I don't know every new bit of the new rulebooks - I remember reading through them when they arrived as PDF, but I probably didn't read everything.  For instance, there's chase rules now where there wasn't before.  But having listened to the podcast of the group playing the Reign of Terror adventure (which is a 7th edition adventure), I didn't hear anything different from how you play a 6th edition game.  Sure, there were cases where folks pushed their luck and rolled something again, or used luck to pass a roll (although that was very sparing), but otherwise it just sounded like a normal investigation.

In my opinion, the games are similar enough between 6th and 7th that it should be easy enough to convert on the fly, but we won't know for sure what's changed until we compare the earlier text with the new edition.

Thanks a lot for that breakdown. I'm really looking forward to seeing the new content, especially the handouts and GM aids. I was already planning on getting the new edition of MoN since I have several players begging me to run them through the campaign, but it's nice to see just what I'll be getting into later this year. Though I have to say, that is going to be an intimidating amount of information to go through and I'm glad I've already run the campaign before so it won't all be new.

Quote from: rmeints;1038084Thank you for the welcome. I've been a reader here for a number of years, but I have seldom posted. While I love a good debate, I'd prefer to let each person decide how backwards compatible the 7th edition of Call of Cthulhu is for themselves. I personally view backwards compatibility as an important thing. I have no doubt that people will have widely differing beliefs on how much you can change a game before it is no longer backwards compatible for them. I will say this though, since the 7th edition came out we have received a lot of feedback on it from a lot of people. In general, the feedback and reviews have been fairly positive, especially from those that have given it a thorough run through at the game table. To make giving it a try as easy as possible we have a free PDF of the 7th edition Quickstart and a free PDF solo adventure on our website.

As for the new material that is in the new edition of Masks, here's a rundown:

The previous edition of Masks was 248 pages. The new edition is 672 pages. While the layout has been overhauled, the word count per page hasn't substantially changed.

A 44 page chapter with a "prologue" adventure set in darkest Peru has been added.
The New York adventure chapter increased from 27 pages to 78 pages, with 4 additional handouts.
The London adventure chapter increased from 33 pages to 116 pages, with 8 additional handouts.
The Egypt adventure chapter increased from 41 pages to 90 pages, with 2 additional handouts.
The Kenya adventure chapter increased from 30 pages to 64 pages, with 2 additional handouts.
The Australia adventure chapter increased from 39 pages to 70 pages, with 3 additional handouts.
The China adventure chapter increased from 42 pages to 100 pages, with 4 additional handouts.

Each chapter has additional scenario material, but I don't feel I should elaborate for fear of revealing potential spoilers.
There are clue diagrams to help the GM in each chapter.
There are more maps, better maps, and player map handouts.
There's more art, and more of it is in full color.
A number of the original handouts just said something like "photo of a ship" as opposed to now actually being a period photo of the ship.
Speaking of period (historical) photos, we've added lots more of them.
Throughout the book there is boxed text for how to run the adventure in "Pulp Cthulhu" style.
There is a 6 page Travel appendix.
There is a 9 page Spell appendix.
There is a 10 page Tome Appendix.
There is a 6 page Artifacts appendix.
Lastly, the index has been expanded from 2 pages to 9 pages because we added a lot more references to make it easier to find stuff.

OK, so that's a very interesting breakdown.  Here's a question: could this edition be effectively run through and completed by a group of PCs without them ever going to or doing anything not found in the earlier editions?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038189OK, so that's a very interesting breakdown.  Here's a question: could this edition be effectively run through and completed by a group of PCs without them ever going to or doing anything not found in the earlier editions?

Politely meant short answer: Basically, no.

The PCs will visit the same locations (the same core plot) as the older editions of the campaign. The new material is intertwined with the old material and is essentially inseparable although the players may (as they could always do) choose to not visit / participate in a particular location/plot point. The new material is not optional - it either deepens, corrects, adds layers to the original (e.g. some character details in the original have been changed for historical, representational, or plot purposes). The only exception to this is the optional Peru prologue chapter, which is a prologue but not a component of the core campaign.

I hope that helps.

Hey Rick, one quick question if I may:

I have a group of players who have only finished The Haunting under 5.6 edition CoC. I received the 7th edition books for my birthday, and am planning to convert them over to it.

Will they be experienced enough to tackle Masks of Nyarlathotep, or should they have more mileage before attempting it?

Thanks!

I'm not Rick but have been running CoC for many years and do a lot of CoC con games as well (CoC cmpaigns are very different from one-shot scenarios or con games). Doing a one shot of The Haunting no way is experienced enough to  successfully play Masks. However if they are experienced role players they will enjoy themselves until them die. Masks is more pulpy than many CoC scenarios and better suited to players who prefer that style but investigation savvy investigators will get a lot more out of it and survive longer than players who have very little experience of CoC investigation scenarios.

I'd suggest that they have at least another three or for scenarios, preferably using 7e if you are using the new Masks, under their belts before attempting Masks.

Quote from: rmeints;1038274The new material is not optional - it either deepens, corrects, adds layers to the original (e.g. some character details in the original have been changed for historical, representational, or plot purposes). The only exception to this is the optional Peru prologue chapter, which is a prologue but not a component of the core campaign.
I hope that helps.

There have been a number of discussions, on sites like RPG.net, about MoN being problematic, was anything changed to appease any of these people.

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;1038541I'd suggest that they have at least another three or for scenarios, preferably using 7e if you are using the new Masks, under their belts before attempting Masks.

The joy of CoC is that there's *lots* of adventures out there that are really very good.  I ran some adventures from the Unspeakable Oath folks before I last ran Masks, and it was a fun start to things.  And apparently there's a prequel adventure that comes with the new Masks.

You may also want to go have a look at the Masks of Nyarlathotep Companion - which is a huge tome of expanding material on the original campaign.  Some of it may be replaced by material in the new printing, but I'm sure it's worth checking out.