I am a bit of a martial arts enthusiast, but I've only rarely run martial arts heavy campaigns. Presently thinking of running something. I have a copy of Feng Shui and might use that. But I am wondering what other systems people would suggest martial arts. More worried about the mechanics capturing the feel of martial arts movies than being realistic portrayals of real fighting styles (but if anyone can suggest something for more realistic and gritty martial arts feel free as I may want to run a game like that in the future as well). Also any issues people found with Feng Shui would be helpful (i've read the book, and played a little of it, but haven't really probed the thing for problems).

Ninjas & Superspies is a great system, for the most part.  The Palladium combat system lends itself well to the "duck and thrust" of the art of fighting with all the different rolls.  

I really can't say I've encountered a better one, though I am a big fan of what you can do with D20.  No one has really covered martial arts in and of itself except in just a few of the more obscure games.

You say you're an enthusiast, so I'll assume you practice one or more actual forms yourself.  What forms you study can have a profound impact on how you might view a system - for instance, Shotokan or Tae Kwon Do students are going to have a different outlook than Kung Fu students, and there are different  schools of thought in every lineage.

If you're into MMA, that's not really martial arts.  That's wrestling with elbows and kicks allowed - sort of a neutered form of pit fighting.

Quote from: Blackhand;480126You say you're an enthusiast, so I'll assume you practice one or more actual forms yourself.  What forms you study can have a profound impact on how you might view a system - for instance, Shotokan or Tae Kwon Do students are going to have a different outlook than Kung Fu students, and there are different  schools of thought in every lineage.

If you're into MMA, that's not really martial arts.  That's wrestling with elbows and kicks allowed - sort of a neutered form of pit fighting.

To me these are all martial arts. But that is a whole other conversation (and not really related to RPGs).

Love martial arts films but also practice (at least until very recently). I have mostly done boxing and thai boxing. But started out in Tae Kwon Do. Did some sanshou and MMA as well. But what I am looking for in-game is more cinematic stuff I think. I love thai boxing, but have only seen it made to look great on screen by Tony Jaa. And as much as I love the Rocky movies, not looking for that type of combat in the game. Really thinking more of Jet Li and Jackie Chan movies.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;480133To me these are all martial arts. But that is a whole other conversation (and not really related to RPGs).

Love martial arts films but also practice (at least until very recently). I have mostly done boxing and thai boxing. But started out in Tae Kwon Do. Did some sanshou and MMA as well. But what I am looking for in-game is more cinematic stuff I think. I love thai boxing, but have only seen it made to look great on screen by Tony Jaa. And as much as I love the Rocky movies, not looking for that type of combat in the game. Really thinking more of Jet Li and Jackie Chan movies.

Well you have the pedigree why not produce your own ?

Personally I like the old Top Secret system but I might be in a small club on that one
From an abstract perspective I also think that the old Oriental adventures martial arts styles were pretty good at getting across the difference in styles that is so evocative of movies like Snake in Eagle's shadow or Once Upon a Time In China.

I think you could build a system that allowed you to
i) Involve player tactics in combat
ii) Allow differentiation based on 'style'
iii) Have some speed vs power payoff
iv) have a measure of soft style vs hard style
v) at the bottom end feel quite realistic but at the top end allow crazy Chi power moves

Give it a punt you know you want to.
There are a few martial artists on the site we could even try it as a shared project.

Quote from: jibbajibba;480139Well you have the pedigree why not produce your own ?

I've thought about it. But I think I would have a very hard time doing this. I think the temptation for too much granularity is blocking me.

QuotePersonally I like the old Top Secret system but I might be in a small club on that one

I haven't played this since the 80s. Is it still available?

QuoteFrom an abstract perspective I also think that the old Oriental adventures martial arts styles were pretty good at getting across the difference in styles that is so evocative of movies like Snake in Eagle's shadow or Once Upon a Time In China.

3E or the old 1E book? I don't remember 1E oriental adventures too well, but I do recall getting the same impression you describe from the 3E version.

QuoteI think you could build a system that allowed you to
i) Involve player tactics in combat
ii) Allow differentiation based on 'style'
iii) Have some speed vs power payoff
iv) have a measure of soft style vs hard style
v) at the bottom end feel quite realistic but at the top end allow crazy Chi power moves

This all sounds reasonable. I would probably make room for mystic elements too since that is part of the genre (though you do mention this in 5).

QuoteGive it a punt you know you want to.
There are a few martial artists on the site we could even try it as a shared project.

This wouldn't be a bad experiment for some fun. maybe in the design forum.

I like Feng Shui for it's Wuxia style of martial arts and it's more mystic elements that it ties in.  It's not realistic in that a well build character could (theoretically) actually run up a stream of machine gun fire.  But I think with their various styles and the general flow of the mechanics it does the genre very well if what you are going for is the Wuxia style you see in Crouching Tiger etc...

Surpisingly, I think Jadeclaw does a decent job. Blood and Fists for D20 modern is a friends favorite. Although he complains about nearly all of them. Being a dedicated practitioner I suggest he do his own book.

I'm only barely into them myself. (2nd Degree Brown belt in Taekwondo, and Orange in Aikijujitsu.)

I think Top Secret/SI wasn't terrible either. I'm not sure of any "great" ones though. It is a shame that. I know a lot of people gush over Weapons of the Gods, but it was just too weird for me.

Depending on what one likes they might want to look at: Dragon Lines (BRP), Dragofist (AD&D derivative), I like Dragonfist in general but I'd need to re-read it for martial arts, as I don't recall much about them. Dragon Lines I do not own.

Someday I hope one of my games will have awesome martial arts, notably my Space Wuxia game. Just have to sit down and write it.

Quote from: Blackhand;480126Ninjas & Superspies is a great system, for the most part.  The Palladium combat system lends itself well to the "duck and thrust" of the art of fighting with all the different rolls.  

Another vote for N&SS.

Why?

Quote from: jibbajibba;480139I think you could build a system that allowed you to
i) Involve player tactics in combat
ii) Allow differentiation based on 'style'
iii) Have some speed vs power payoff
iv) have a measure of soft style vs hard style
v) at the bottom end feel quite realistic but at the top end allow crazy Chi power moves

Because it does precisely all of this, without being ridiculously clunky.

As it stands only character creation is somewhat clunky, and there are a couple of fixes out there for that (Pundy's for one).

Monkey: Journey to the West

Best Kung Fu game I've ever read.

N&SS is getting a lot of love. I will have to check it out as well.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;480200N&SS is getting a lot of love. I will have to check it out as well.

I'm ending my main game tonight and next week we will be playing N&SS with Heroes Unlimited. My character is a mutant from Heroes who is a dedicated martial artist from N&SS.

He's an anthropomorphic hawk with the samurai sword art and the Japanese joint locking art - we decided he is from the same world as Usagi Yojimbo. Fucking awesome.

GURPS martial arts.  Very detailed and plenty of options.

Feng Shui occasionally violates its own design goals.  The most obvious example I can think of is that while it makes a lot of noise about guns not needing detailed stats, it then goes and gives you detailed stats for the guns anyway.

My impression of the martial arts system is that it was a bit too coarse grained for a martial-arts focused game.

Some things you might want to look at are Eclipse: The Codex Persona (shareware point-buy for d20, which has a surprisingly detailed path system for mystical martial arts) and Daniel Bayn's Wu Shu, which was designed to properly do what Feng Shui claims to but often does not.

Quote from: Cranewings;480204I'm ending my main game tonight and next week we will be playing N&SS with Heroes Unlimited. My character is a mutant from Heroes who is a dedicated martial artist from N&SS.

He's an anthropomorphic hawk with the samurai sword art and the Japanese joint locking art - we decided he is from the same world as Usagi Yojimbo. Fucking awesome.

We played a game like that back in high school. i had a guy who was a dedicated martial artist as well, with the power alter physical structure: metal. imagine the X-man Collosus, that was a Jujitsu bad ass.

Quote from: Ronin;480232We played a game like that back in high school. i had a guy who was a dedicated martial artist as well, with the power alter physical structure: metal. imagine the X-man Collosus, that was a Jujitsu bad ass.

Nice. That's some Palladium thinking right there.

The biggest power game characters I've seen to date were both from the same guy: The Sonic Samurai who had either 9 or 11 attacks with his katana, and the Cotton Fist martial artist with chi powers and Negate Super Abilities.