What the tin says, watch the vid.
Eddited to add a link to the subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/lwbo5b/male_dm_for_dd_advertises_safe_womenfriendly_rpg/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/lwbo5b/male_dm_for_dd_advertises_safe_womenfriendly_rpg/)
...
(https://us.v-cdn.net/6025736/uploads/editor/8x/9devwi1q337v.gif)
Anedote time!
The closest I've come to an "uncomfortable situation", I was GMing a 2e Dark Sun game. Everyone had rolled up wild talents, and a woman player had... I don't have the book handy, it's an 'attraction' talent, and she used that thing unmercifully on male NPCs. They were parleying with elf raiders, and she used the ability on the raider chief. Up until then, I hadn't wanted to "go there", but the situation was pretty clear to my mind. She successully used the ability on the raider chief, and I role played him "Execute them all, but the woman. Have her taken to my tent!"
I'm not squeamish, but I run a PG-13 game, it was in a public place, and the player's husband was also at the table. So I had no plans to run a "rape scene". They wound up fighting the raiders anyway, so it was moot. But for a while there, I was staring down the barrel of resolving a rather ticklish situation.
So my "uncomfortable situation" was completely driven by the actions of the player in question, and from my read on the table, I felt pretty justified in how I ran the encounter.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 16, 2021, 04:33:22 AM
Anedote time!
The closest I've come to an "uncomfortable situation", I was GMing a 2e Dark Sun game. Everyone had rolled up wild talents, and a woman player had... I don't have the book handy, it's an 'attraction' talent, and she used that thing unmercifully on male NPCs. They were parleying with elf raiders, and she used the ability on the raider chief. Up until then, I hadn't wanted to "go there", but the situation was pretty clear to my mind. She successully used the ability on the raider chief, and I role played him "Execute them all, but the woman. Have her taken to my tent!"
I'm not squeamish, but I run a PG-13 game, it was in a public place, and the player's husband was also at the table. So I had no plans to run a "rape scene". They wound up fighting the raiders anyway, so it was moot. But for a while there, I was staring down the barrel of resolving a rather ticklish situation.
So my "uncomfortable situation" was completely driven by the actions of the player in question, and from my read on the table, I felt pretty justified in how I ran the encounter.
But you hadn't advertised it as a safe space, neither was the discussion had about avoiding that stuff and you could always resort to some fudging to get out of it.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 04:39:25 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 16, 2021, 04:33:22 AM
Anedote time!
The closest I've come to an "uncomfortable situation", I was GMing a 2e Dark Sun game. Everyone had rolled up wild talents, and a woman player had... I don't have the book handy, it's an 'attraction' talent, and she used that thing unmercifully on male NPCs. They were parleying with elf raiders, and she used the ability on the raider chief. Up until then, I hadn't wanted to "go there", but the situation was pretty clear to my mind. She successully used the ability on the raider chief, and I role played him "Execute them all, but the woman. Have her taken to my tent!"
I'm not squeamish, but I run a PG-13 game, it was in a public place, and the player's husband was also at the table. So I had no plans to run a "rape scene". They wound up fighting the raiders anyway, so it was moot. But for a while there, I was staring down the barrel of resolving a rather ticklish situation.
So my "uncomfortable situation" was completely driven by the actions of the player in question, and from my read on the table, I felt pretty justified in how I ran the encounter.
But you hadn't advertised it as a safe space, neither was the discussion had about avoiding that stuff and you could always resort to some fudging to get out of it.
Of course. I guess I just wanted to chip in with what I think is an example of how the game can get uncomforatble, but not intentionally.
The GM from the video was almost certainly some kind of troll. I'm boggled that they continued to interact with him afterwards. Somebody who puts rape and ejaculating mushrooms in their games for a bunch of strangers isn't the kind of person, to my mind, to have a serious conversation with. Beyond "Not a good fit for our group, have a nice life."
Guy deliberately seeks out women he knows will be upset for his rapey Magic Realm. More an abuser than a troll I'd think.
In the video, she says that the game was on Twitch, so it should still be there. But it also begs the question as to who none of the players just dropped out. That situation in the bar was so weird that I would have noped out the instant the DM said "wet hole".
So, this girl tried a new DM, she didn't really like the experience (it happened to me too, BTW) and... Instead of saying "OK, I don't like this. You promised something different but I see that it was a bait. Bye!" and moving on, she... puts together a 30+ minutes rant on YouTube? What is her point? Spend the same time to find a DM you like and have fun. Is this really so complicated?
Quote from: Reckall on March 16, 2021, 09:48:05 AM
So, this girl tried a new DM, she didn't really like the experience (it happened to me too, BTW) and... Instead of saying "OK, I don't like this. You promised something different but I see that it was a bait. Bye!" and moving on, she... puts together a 30+ minutes rant on YouTube? What is her point? Spend the same time to find a DM you like and have fun. Is this really so complicated?
Eh, no? The Youtuber had nothing to do with the situation. The victims did of course quit the game.
Quote from: S'mon on March 16, 2021, 10:21:44 AM
Quote from: Reckall on March 16, 2021, 09:48:05 AM
So, this girl tried a new DM, she didn't really like the experience (it happened to me too, BTW) and... Instead of saying "OK, I don't like this. You promised something different but I see that it was a bait. Bye!" and moving on, she... puts together a 30+ minutes rant on YouTube? What is her point? Spend the same time to find a DM you like and have fun. Is this really so complicated?
Eh, no? The Youtuber had nothing to do with the situation. The victims did of course quit the game.
OK, I watched the video (admittedly, after ten minutes it became a voice in the background) and I missed this. Maybe it was a language problem, but... if so, this rant is even more baffling. Is she trying to "warn the World?" ???
Edit: and 36 minutes to make a simple point? I guess that when she reached the "ejaculating mushrooms" scene everything was already crystal clear... I really and honestly do not understand what this girl is aiming to.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.E-W6h7u0MlzSnU6qWFHTjwAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Quote from: Trinculoisdead on March 16, 2021, 11:33:21 AM
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.E-W6h7u0MlzSnU6qWFHTjwAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
There it is!
Quote from: Thornhammer on March 16, 2021, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: Trinculoisdead on March 16, 2021, 11:33:21 AM
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.E-W6h7u0MlzSnU6qWFHTjwAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
There it is!
Ed Greenwood has never looked better than that right there.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 16, 2021, 04:33:22 AM
Anedote time!
The closest I've come to an "uncomfortable situation", I was GMing a 2e Dark Sun game. Everyone had rolled up wild talents, and a woman player had... I don't have the book handy, it's an 'attraction' talent, and she used that thing unmercifully on male NPCs. They were parleying with elf raiders, and she used the ability on the raider chief. Up until then, I hadn't wanted to "go there", but the situation was pretty clear to my mind. She successully used the ability on the raider chief, and I role played him "Execute them all, but the woman. Have her taken to my tent!"
I'm not squeamish, but I run a PG-13 game, it was in a public place, and the player's husband was also at the table. So I had no plans to run a "rape scene". They wound up fighting the raiders anyway, so it was moot. But for a while there, I was staring down the barrel of resolving a rather ticklish situation.
So my "uncomfortable situation" was completely driven by the actions of the player in question, and from my read on the table, I felt pretty justified in how I ran the encounter.
Well, clearly the consent worksheet would have solved this situation.
Quote from: horsesoldier on March 16, 2021, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 16, 2021, 04:33:22 AM
Anedote time!
The closest I've come to an "uncomfortable situation", I was GMing a 2e Dark Sun game. Everyone had rolled up wild talents, and a woman player had... I don't have the book handy, it's an 'attraction' talent, and she used that thing unmercifully on male NPCs. They were parleying with elf raiders, and she used the ability on the raider chief. Up until then, I hadn't wanted to "go there", but the situation was pretty clear to my mind. She successully used the ability on the raider chief, and I role played him "Execute them all, but the woman. Have her taken to my tent!"
I'm not squeamish, but I run a PG-13 game, it was in a public place, and the player's husband was also at the table. So I had no plans to run a "rape scene". They wound up fighting the raiders anyway, so it was moot. But for a while there, I was staring down the barrel of resolving a rather ticklish situation.
So my "uncomfortable situation" was completely driven by the actions of the player in question, and from my read on the table, I felt pretty justified in how I ran the encounter.
Well, clearly the consent worksheet would have solved this situation.
Like it did in the game of the video? The women clearly said what they didn't want, then tried to have the DM to stop... Yep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
The magical realm mushrooms and the ad's very knowing language makes me think it was a deliberate troll.
Then again some of these Male Feminists often are that tone death so who knows.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: horsesoldier on March 16, 2021, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 16, 2021, 04:33:22 AM
Anedote time!
The closest I've come to an "uncomfortable situation", I was GMing a 2e Dark Sun game. Everyone had rolled up wild talents, and a woman player had... I don't have the book handy, it's an 'attraction' talent, and she used that thing unmercifully on male NPCs. They were parleying with elf raiders, and she used the ability on the raider chief. Up until then, I hadn't wanted to "go there", but the situation was pretty clear to my mind. She successully used the ability on the raider chief, and I role played him "Execute them all, but the woman. Have her taken to my tent!"
I'm not squeamish, but I run a PG-13 game, it was in a public place, and the player's husband was also at the table. So I had no plans to run a "rape scene". They wound up fighting the raiders anyway, so it was moot. But for a while there, I was staring down the barrel of resolving a rather ticklish situation.
So my "uncomfortable situation" was completely driven by the actions of the player in question, and from my read on the table, I felt pretty justified in how I ran the encounter.
Well, clearly the consent worksheet would have solved this situation.
Like it did in the game of the video? The women clearly said what they didn't want, then tried to have the DM to stop... Yep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
We clearly need a text marker to indicate sarcasm on this site. ... Beyond the one guy who said that he indicates sarcasm by black text
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 16, 2021, 05:19:41 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: horsesoldier on March 16, 2021, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 16, 2021, 04:33:22 AM
Anedote time!
The closest I've come to an "uncomfortable situation", I was GMing a 2e Dark Sun game. Everyone had rolled up wild talents, and a woman player had... I don't have the book handy, it's an 'attraction' talent, and she used that thing unmercifully on male NPCs. They were parleying with elf raiders, and she used the ability on the raider chief. Up until then, I hadn't wanted to "go there", but the situation was pretty clear to my mind. She successully used the ability on the raider chief, and I role played him "Execute them all, but the woman. Have her taken to my tent!"
I'm not squeamish, but I run a PG-13 game, it was in a public place, and the player's husband was also at the table. So I had no plans to run a "rape scene". They wound up fighting the raiders anyway, so it was moot. But for a while there, I was staring down the barrel of resolving a rather ticklish situation.
So my "uncomfortable situation" was completely driven by the actions of the player in question, and from my read on the table, I felt pretty justified in how I ran the encounter.
Well, clearly the consent worksheet would have solved this situation.
Like it did in the game of the video? The women clearly said what they didn't want, then tried to have the DM to stop... Yep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
We clearly need a text marker to indicate sarcasm on this site. ... Beyond the one guy who said that he indicates sarcasm by black text
Welp, if you were being sarcastic my bad, as for a marker... What's wrong with the old /S ?
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on March 16, 2021, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Players need to learn the only right they have, to leave the table. It's also the most powerful "safety" tool. Just get up (or log off) and leave, then tell your buddies the DM is an asshole.
Then again, the people more likely to TRULLY need "safety" tools are also the les likely to be able to use them when needed. What they need (before even thinking of playing RPGs) is some therapy.
None of which excuses, or pretends to excuse, the asshole predators that would and do abuse said "safety" tools.
e: IDGAF
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 08:18:15 PM
Welp, if you were being sarcastic my bad, as for a marker... What's wrong with the old /S ?
Telling people you're being sarcastic defeats the purpose of using sarcasm.
Another boy who needs to learn to be a man. I suspect an absent father. In the absence of a father, or father figure, a boy may take inspiration from myth.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on March 16, 2021, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Players need to learn the only right they have, to leave the table. It's also the most powerful "safety" tool. Just get up (or log off) and leave, then tell your buddies the DM is an asshole.
Then again, the people more likely to TRULLY need "safety" tools are also the les likely to be able to use them when needed. What they need (before even thinking of playing RPGs) is some therapy.
None of which excuses, or pretends to excuse, the asshole predators that would and do abuse said "safety" tools.
In fairness if it was a convention game and you paid money to be at the session I would say you would in principle (if not practice) have more rights than just the right to leave. But then again I also wholeheatedly agree with your second sentence.
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on March 16, 2021, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Players need to learn the only right they have, to leave the table. It's also the most powerful "safety" tool. Just get up (or log off) and leave, then tell your buddies the DM is an asshole.
Then again, the people more likely to TRULLY need "safety" tools are also the les likely to be able to use them when needed. What they need (before even thinking of playing RPGs) is some therapy.
None of which excuses, or pretends to excuse, the asshole predators that would and do abuse said "safety" tools.
In fairness if it was a convention game and you paid money to be at the session I would say you would in principle (if not practice) have more rights than just the right to leave. But then again I also wholeheatedly agree with your second sentence.
If you piss me off enough to cause me to leave the table at a convention, rest assured I will be pissed off enough to file a formal complaint with the convention organizers. As you noted, if I pay money for a game slot and the guy running it is a complete jackwagon, I'm not gonna be real happy.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on March 16, 2021, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Players need to learn the only right they have, to leave the table. It's also the most powerful "safety" tool. Just get up (or log off) and leave, then tell your buddies the DM is an asshole.
Then again, the people more likely to TRULLY need "safety" tools are also the les likely to be able to use them when needed. What they need (before even thinking of playing RPGs) is some therapy.
None of which excuses, or pretends to excuse, the asshole predators that would and do abuse said "safety" tools.
In fairness if it was a convention game and you paid money to be at the session I would say you would in principle (if not practice) have more rights than just the right to leave. But then again I also wholeheatedly agree with your second sentence.
If you piss me off enough to cause me to leave the table at a convention, rest assured I will be pissed off enough to file a formal complaint with the convention organizers. As you noted, if I pay money for a game slot and the guy running it is a complete jackwagon, I'm not gonna be real happy.
Even so, my ability to walk away from the table is undiminished. In fact, I have an additional incentive to do so - walking away puts action to my distaste, and better supports my complaint to the convention organizers.
So, no. No "paid money at a convention" exception. No exceptions at all.
I call it Rule Prime - no one is forcing you to play, no one is forcing you to stay. Don't like the game? Find a game you
do like, or run one yourself.
Quote from: RandyB on March 18, 2021, 08:32:33 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on March 16, 2021, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Players need to learn the only right they have, to leave the table. It's also the most powerful "safety" tool. Just get up (or log off) and leave, then tell your buddies the DM is an asshole.
Then again, the people more likely to TRULLY need "safety" tools are also the les likely to be able to use them when needed. What they need (before even thinking of playing RPGs) is some therapy.
None of which excuses, or pretends to excuse, the asshole predators that would and do abuse said "safety" tools.
In fairness if it was a convention game and you paid money to be at the session I would say you would in principle (if not practice) have more rights than just the right to leave. But then again I also wholeheatedly agree with your second sentence.
If you piss me off enough to cause me to leave the table at a convention, rest assured I will be pissed off enough to file a formal complaint with the convention organizers. As you noted, if I pay money for a game slot and the guy running it is a complete jackwagon, I'm not gonna be real happy.
Even so, my ability to walk away from the table is undiminished. In fact, I have an additional incentive to do so - walking away puts action to my distaste, and better supports my complaint to the convention organizers.
So, no. No "paid money at a convention" exception. No exceptions at all.
I call it Rule Prime - no one is forcing you to play, no one is forcing you to stay. Don't like the game? Find a game you do like, or run one yourself.
Oh, no argument. Walking away is the best action.
It doesn't obviate OTHER actions though.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
Quote from: RandyB on March 18, 2021, 08:32:33 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on March 16, 2021, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Players need to learn the only right they have, to leave the table. It's also the most powerful "safety" tool. Just get up (or log off) and leave, then tell your buddies the DM is an asshole.
Then again, the people more likely to TRULLY need "safety" tools are also the les likely to be able to use them when needed. What they need (before even thinking of playing RPGs) is some therapy.
None of which excuses, or pretends to excuse, the asshole predators that would and do abuse said "safety" tools.
In fairness if it was a convention game and you paid money to be at the session I would say you would in principle (if not practice) have more rights than just the right to leave. But then again I also wholeheatedly agree with your second sentence.
If you piss me off enough to cause me to leave the table at a convention, rest assured I will be pissed off enough to file a formal complaint with the convention organizers. As you noted, if I pay money for a game slot and the guy running it is a complete jackwagon, I'm not gonna be real happy.
Even so, my ability to walk away from the table is undiminished. In fact, I have an additional incentive to do so - walking away puts action to my distaste, and better supports my complaint to the convention organizers.
So, no. No "paid money at a convention" exception. No exceptions at all.
I call it Rule Prime - no one is forcing you to play, no one is forcing you to stay. Don't like the game? Find a game you do like, or run one yourself.
Oh, no argument. Walking away is the best action.
It doesn't obviate OTHER actions though.
Embrace the healing power of "and".
Quote from: RandyB on March 18, 2021, 09:44:24 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
Quote from: RandyB on March 18, 2021, 08:32:33 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on March 16, 2021, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 16, 2021, 01:52:53 PMYep, those SJW "safety" tools sure work wonders.
I have long said that the most important phrase a game master has is, "No, don't be stupid."
Apparently some players need to use it, too.
Players need to learn the only right they have, to leave the table. It's also the most powerful "safety" tool. Just get up (or log off) and leave, then tell your buddies the DM is an asshole.
Then again, the people more likely to TRULLY need "safety" tools are also the les likely to be able to use them when needed. What they need (before even thinking of playing RPGs) is some therapy.
None of which excuses, or pretends to excuse, the asshole predators that would and do abuse said "safety" tools.
In fairness if it was a convention game and you paid money to be at the session I would say you would in principle (if not practice) have more rights than just the right to leave. But then again I also wholeheatedly agree with your second sentence.
If you piss me off enough to cause me to leave the table at a convention, rest assured I will be pissed off enough to file a formal complaint with the convention organizers. As you noted, if I pay money for a game slot and the guy running it is a complete jackwagon, I'm not gonna be real happy.
Even so, my ability to walk away from the table is undiminished. In fact, I have an additional incentive to do so - walking away puts action to my distaste, and better supports my complaint to the convention organizers.
So, no. No "paid money at a convention" exception. No exceptions at all.
I call it Rule Prime - no one is forcing you to play, no one is forcing you to stay. Don't like the game? Find a game you do like, or run one yourself.
Oh, no argument. Walking away is the best action.
It doesn't obviate OTHER actions though.
Embrace the healing power of "and".
Just as a consumer I disagree with this. If a convention advertised 'One shot session Cracking Sword and Sorcery adventure in the Tomb of Gurak. Pre-Gen character (
whatever system). 4 hours'.
I pay my admission fee.
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Where it gets blurry is if you've paid money, refuse to leave the table but also carry on playing. Example 'The tentacle monster gropes you haha lose 10HP' 'Nah, I'm probably going to ignore that actually. Carry on though'. At a certain point the whole fiction of the table breaks down I suppose.
If it is a private club or gaming group I think that's completly different. In this case yes it is more less up to you to just leave.
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
Luckily, I never saw a single event, not even big conventions, asking to "pay to play" here in Italy. GMs are volunteers. Even I did it a couple of times.
Of course it works both ways. A few years ago I went to this "D&D Celebration Day" and I sat at a table. The DM was terrible: the railroading was transparent and he believed that "generating excitement during an action scene" meant "having a seizure while running it". At the end I wanted my money back - but, of course, the amount was zero. And nothing gives you back the time.
How is the event space paid for, if there's no money being exchanged?
Quote from: horsesoldier on March 18, 2021, 03:34:31 PM
How is the event space paid for, if there's no money being exchanged?
From tickets for the whole event to stalls from LFGSs selling their products. The "free gaming" is considered a form of advertising. Hopefully, a bunch of people will say "Hey, I really liked this!" and buy their own copy.
Some miniature-gaming clubs can organise gigantic three-days battles just to show that they can do it.
In an event like "Lucca Comics and Games" (basically the European ComiCon, but with less emphasis on movies and shows) the town population
doubles.
(https://mytravelintuscany.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Lucca-Comics-Mr-Tiger.jpg)
People from hotel owners to hot-dog stalls work at full capacity 24/7 for four/five days, making the municipality quite happy.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
If it's from the gamingexpo one in Birmingham I heard from a staff member I know that it was quite a bit worse than this. If I remember what I was told correctly:
Admission was £4 per person.
The Game was Tales from the Loop.
It was billed as an 18+ scenario.
The GM allowed gamers who were very obviously under 18s to play (I think some may not have even been teenagers). This was against event rules.
The under 18s were with adult family members who were also PCs
The GM was explicitly meant to declare to event organisers beforehand if there was any sexual content to get it vetted which he didn't.
Sexual content was violent in nature and served as an introduction.
This did not go down well with the table.
So basically sounds like a mess all round and pretty poor management of expectations by everyone, including the adult PCs. Granted that is second hand info remembered from a few years ago so make of it what you will.
If someone gets into a gross game at a con, I don't begrudge them filing a complaint by any means
But I find the best con system is going with some friends and having a shadow con rolling in the rooms. There's always someone from the group running an off grid game, and if friends find themselves in a shit on grid game it's easy to excuse yourself and go to the backup good game.
Don't ever bet your vacation on a rando DM without a backup plan
Quote from: EOTB on March 19, 2021, 11:00:37 PM
If someone gets into a gross game at a con, I don't begrudge them filing a complaint by any means
But I find the best con system is going with some friends and having a shadow con rolling in the rooms. There's always someone from the group running an off grid game, and if friends find themselves in a shit on grid game it's easy to excuse yourself and go to the backup good game.
Don't ever bet your vacation on a rando DM without a backup plan
Bolding mine.
I honestly had never thought of doing this, but will be implementing this at all future cons I will attend.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
If you piss me off enough to cause me to leave the table at a convention, rest assured I will be pissed off enough to file a formal complaint with the convention organizers. As you noted, if I pay money for a game slot and the guy running it is a complete jackwagon, I'm not gonna be real happy.
Unfortunately from experience at a few cons. Going to the staff doesnt allways work. And in the two times I got ripped off on an event. I never got a refund for either. And two I should have raised hell about I did not. I talked quietly with the publisher of the game the troublemaker was a representative of. Didnt get much of a response and later find out the troublemakers had told the publisher I was the one causing trouble. So I cancelled the business deal with them and warned some potential backers.
That is 4 out of alot of events played over alot of cons. Was lucky I guess. Sure some were sub par. Looking at you RPGA and Dream Pod 9! But overall even the lower grade ones were not onerous and of the ones payed for, which was few, most of those, except for the RPGA and DP9 ones, went fine. And the two that were troublesome did not kick in till more than halfway in. And it took a bit to realize what was going on.
Others YMMV has YMMV'd alot, unfortunately. Theres allways going to be some bad apples out there for one reason or another.
Generally speaking, if you do prepare a game for a convention it is better to be "safe than sorry". To be an ass during a convention just to prove a point is stupid. The first time I did it I was surprised to see kids sitting down at my table with their parents. Luckily the scenario I prepared was as vanilla D&D as it gets.
The second time I volunteered the organisers specifically asked me for a CoC scenario. While I hope that everybody knows what CoC implies, it is always better to check out the group during the opening part before pulling an "Alien" moment and having blood raining on everybody's head... Vague descriptions and innuendo work well for most of the situations anyway.
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
I read the interview and I still do not understand how someone preparing a game for a
convention could have thought that this was a good idea.
Quote from: Reckall on March 20, 2021, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
I read the interview and I still do not understand how someone preparing a game for a convention could have thought that this was a good idea.
That doesn't ring true to me, but even if he really is that clueless, he still shouldn't be running convention games. The GM from the OP sounds similarly bad. A man advertising for all-female players is a warning sign in the first place to me. Further, advertising they should be "safe and comfortable" - but then (from how I read it) having the party harassed and beaten by sexist inn staff.
Note: I didn't listen to the half-hour long video from the OP, but I read the original thread here: https://imgur.com/gallery/MhIVHkM
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?
On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?
Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.
If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?
So as a GM I'm always interested in improving my ability to tell the story without relying on exposition. With that in mind, genuinely good faith question and not being sarcastic: As I understand it you're saying this scenario wouldn't make you bat an eyelid or even raise an eyebrow from the pov that something sexual could have happened?
And if later on without any intermediary exposition an NPC or fellow PC for that matter, did raise the idea that a sexual assault had taken place you'd be surprised because there was zero evidence of this whatsoever in the story?
Tone is very difficult to establish on a forum so all I can say is again, genuinely interested in where you're coming from here because even by the GM's own version of events the scenario seems to have narrative inferences albeit ambiguous ones. The idea of drawing a veil over a scene is an established narrative technique (especially as the characters were drugged). So I wouldn't say this is cut and dry by any stretch but to say there's zero evidence to me seems like quite a bold statement.
But like I say as a GM I am interested in knowing that some players would be utterly oblivious to this as a story cue so would love to get your take.
If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.
As for running games in public, I am always VERY upfront in the description and I reiterate the description before the game. That usually solves 90% of potential issues. Usually people who don't like gory horror don't show up to games listed as "Splatterpunk Horror. Mature Audience Only." Also, "merciless old school dungeoncrawl" weeds out the unwanted rather nicely.
This is being promoted as a safe space, too.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-21/deathmatch-wrestling-bloody-and-inclusive/13261698
That's just what we need in gaming, players being hit over the head with light globes and falling backwards onto thumbtacks.
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.
No shit, minicons are great. However, if you do not step out there in public and represent the games you like by running them, then people think that the game itself is dead - particularly the casual gamer crowd.
(PS: Right in my city is a great place for having three couples together for a fantasy RPG minicon! A little pricey, but cool!
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/5151609?source_impression_id=p3_1566512476_JG63zEN953G5eXT1 )
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PMAs for running games in public, I am always VERY upfront in the description and I reiterate the description before the game. That usually solves 90% of potential issues. Usually people who don't like gory horror don't show up to games listed as "Splatterpunk Horror. Mature Audience Only." Also, "merciless old school dungeoncrawl" weeds out the unwanted rather nicely.
That's cool, but I have had members of the Con Committee edit my game listings before. Not to mention getting my games shit-talked by the local Organized Play SJW lemmings prior to running them.
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.
Because we're also running lots of tables at the con also. In our case the con is a meeting place for old friends who consistently block that time out every year.
We have a big group, 20 or so. So its not hard for us to have one game running in the rooms while some are running on grid, and others are playing on grid with the option to move to the backup game. I realize not everyone is going to do that; pointing out the alternative of an off-grid because no one should endure bad games at a big con.
The response to the GM was way way too polite in order to make the so-called "victims" virtuous.
I am going to suggest that the entire incident is a total fraud by and for SJWs.
The local con I had went to nearly every year started calling the gamemaster the "host" for what I can only assume is SJW reasons. I stopped going.
Quote from: horsesoldier on March 22, 2021, 09:56:09 AM
The local con I had went to nearly every year started calling the gamemaster the "host" for what I can only assume is SJW reasons. I stopped going.
Bang on the money, they ARE removing the words master/slave even from coding (as in programing), because somehow, somewhere, someone (who hasn't been a slave and almost sure doesn't descend from slaves) might get trigered.
The mindvirus is everywhere, and the TTRPG scene has been infiltrated at the top. We need a FreedomCon.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?
On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?
Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.
If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.
The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
If you think you need a "shadow con" to have fun, why not just blow off that con and just gather your friends at a big rented house and run a mini-con instead? Minicons are great fun and usually cheaper with better food.
As for running games in public, I am always VERY upfront in the description and I reiterate the description before the game. That usually solves 90% of potential issues. Usually people who don't like gory horror don't show up to games listed as "Splatterpunk Horror. Mature Audience Only." Also, "merciless old school dungeoncrawl" weeds out the unwanted rather nicely.
Sound approach! But I suspect the bad apple situations are provocateurs trying to start stuff on purpose. Unfortunately these days the internet only magnifies the fringe cases and ignores the vast majority of the normal and less click-worthy cases of games where fun was had by all.
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 05:35:44 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?
On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?
Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.
If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.
The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.
You missunderstand, they should have kicked him out, but they couldn't, because those who really need a safe space aren'0t able to stand up to the bully/creep and should have therapy before dreaming of playing with people they don't know.
As for kicking anyone out of the hobby... Not my place, yours or theirs, not even in the power of any of us. Best case scenario the creep finds he can't get players after word of mouth does it's job.
Again, the whole "safe space" BS is just the perfect lure/hunting ground for these creeps, and their prey isn't capable of standing up to them. If you really cared for their prey you'd focus on helping them be able to fend for themselves, instead you're bussy missinterpreting my words.
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape". Women need to know how to avoid danger and how to protect themselves if worst comes to pass, with a gun preferably.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 05:35:44 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?
On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?
Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.
If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.
The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.
You missunderstand, they should have kicked him out, but they couldn't, because those who really need a safe space aren'0t able to stand up to the bully/creep and should have therapy before dreaming of playing with people they don't know.
As for kicking anyone out of the hobby... Not my place, yours or theirs, not even in the power of any of us. Best case scenario the creep finds he can't get players after word of mouth does it's job.
Again, the whole "safe space" BS is just the perfect lure/hunting ground for these creeps, and their prey isn't capable of standing up to them. If you really cared for their prey you'd focus on helping them be able to fend for themselves, instead you're bussy missinterpreting my words.
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape". Women need to know how to avoid danger and how to protect themselves if worst comes to pass, with a gun preferably.
My point is that their problems are theirs and while they do need to learn how to handle life situations that are threatening, I am personally embarassed at the idea that one of those theatening situations is somehow my hobby. This asshole in our hobby should be our problem too, and if we aren't also running out creeps like this then maybe we need to go get some therapy too to find out why we tolerate creeps in the hobby.
But also, to take the last point: wouldn't you agree that both actions work? Teach your daughter how to protect herself. Then teach your son how to be a decent person. Then teach both to stand up against abusers, and for others.
Edit: I guess the issue that fires me up on this situation (and others like it) comes from the fact that the guy who is the predator in this situation is taking advantage of the social mores and good will of all around him to get away with his actions. That the girls need help is broader than just "help themselves." His behavior damages the community by tacit acceptance or looking the other way.
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 05:35:44 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 20, 2021, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim on March 20, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
We sit down at the table and the GM doesn't play out a sword and sorcery adventure but instead introduces a wierd creepy sex thing, obviously I will leave. But I also think I have the right to demand the organisers to put me in an actual sword and sorcery game being run.
Would I actually get this? Probably depend on the event. Interestingly this happened at a massive gaming convention in the UK a couple years back (I wasn't in the group it happened to). It made National news bizarrely. I think the GM was barred from running again.
Quote from: Slambo on March 18, 2021, 12:46:24 PM
From what i heard in said UK case the characters werr just knocked out and woke up in different clothes without their gear. Or am i misremembering this.
The GM in question - Kevin Rolfe - says the description was "The tour rep gives you some shots, everything goes fuzzy. You wake up naked, handcuffed to each other, with sore bums, in the back of a van. Guys with guns make you get out and say run." He went on to claim that he didn't intend it to be anything sexual - just that the drugs used to knock them out also gives them diarrhea. However, players from the game said they understood that they were drugged and raped.
Source: https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/rpg-interview-with-kevin-rolfe-uk-games-expos-infamous-gang-rape-games-master/
So, should we believe the players that have exactly zero proof anything sexual happened because it's "their truth"?
On the other hand in a game advertised as women only, and a "safe space", the DM proceeds to have the NPC's tell the PC's they're only AND I QUOTE "Wet Holes", can't latter claim there was nothing sexual. After that everything IS sexual, furthermore, making it walking out not a viable choice?
Like I already said elsewhere: Anyone trully needing a "safe space" is more likely not to be able to stand up to the bullies/creeps, making it the perfect hunting ground for said bullies/creeps.
If you really need a "safe space" you need to get some therapy before even thinking of playing RPGs with people you don't know.
The only person who needed to leave that table was the GM. He wouldn't have pulled this off with a different kind of crowd. You're right, he's a predator, but fuck this hobby if the predator gets to stay and the people he preys on have to leave until they get the adequate level of therapy you think is necessary for them to have to kick this shit out of the hobby.
You missunderstand, they should have kicked him out, but they couldn't, because those who really need a safe space aren'0t able to stand up to the bully/creep and should have therapy before dreaming of playing with people they don't know.
As for kicking anyone out of the hobby... Not my place, yours or theirs, not even in the power of any of us. Best case scenario the creep finds he can't get players after word of mouth does it's job.
Again, the whole "safe space" BS is just the perfect lure/hunting ground for these creeps, and their prey isn't capable of standing up to them. If you really cared for their prey you'd focus on helping them be able to fend for themselves, instead you're bussy missinterpreting my words.
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape". Women need to know how to avoid danger and how to protect themselves if worst comes to pass, with a gun preferably.
My point is that their problems are theirs and while they do need to learn how to handle life situations that are threatening, I am personally embarassed at the idea that one of those theatening situations is somehow my hobby. This asshole in our hobby should be our problem too, and if we aren't also running out creeps like this then maybe we need to go get some therapy too to find out why we tolerate creeps in the hobby.
But also, to take the last point: wouldn't you agree that both actions work? Teach your daughter how to protect herself. Then teach your son how to be a decent person. Then teach both to stand up against abusers, and for others.
Edit: I guess the issue that fires me up on this situation (and others like it) comes from the fact that the guy who is the predator in this situation is taking advantage of the social mores and good will of all around him to get away with his actions. That the girls need help is broader than just "help themselves." His behavior damages the community by tacit acceptance or looking the other way.
Last thing first: No, do you really think rapists rape because they weren't taught not too? That's idiotic.
First thing: How do you proposse WE run out the creeps and predators out of the hobby? A police force that will go to everybody's house and test them, if they're a creep/predator then put them in the black list so no store will sell them TTRPG materials?
We don't tolerate them, as shown by the response the video/post got. What else do you want?
Should WE hire Sherlock Holmes to find out who the creep is, where he lives and send a hitman after him?
Since WE can't do jack shit more than we already do the next step is to help past and future victims to stop being prey.
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".
There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.
Quote from: S'mon on March 31, 2021, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".
There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.
And that risk can only be adressed by teaching women how to reduce it, teach them to use guns and give them guns.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 07:39:53 PM
Quote from: S'mon on March 31, 2021, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".
There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.
And that risk can only be adressed by teaching women how to reduce it, teach them to use guns and give them guns.
I saw someone advocating for that on Ovarit today. Oh, and for
only women to be able to use guns. Since they statistically are
much less likely to commit gun violence than men.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 31, 2021, 07:45:56 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 31, 2021, 07:39:53 PM
Quote from: S'mon on March 31, 2021, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: camazotz on March 31, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Your positions is the same as "Don't teach my daughter not to get raped, teach your son not to rape".
There's no risk of my son - or most people's sons - raping anyone, but there is a risk of other people's daughters being raped.
And that risk can only be adressed by teaching women how to reduce it, teach them to use guns and give them guns.
I saw someone advocating for that on Ovarit today. Oh, and for only women to be able to use guns. Since they statistically are much less likely to commit gun violence than men.
Only because they own less guns than men, in DV cases guess who is more likelly to use a weapon? And yes, your cast iron pan does count as a weapon.
Greetings!
Yeah, I'm sorry, but it sure as fuck IS NOT THE "COMMUNITY'S" RESPONSIBILITY to weed these moron fucking DM's out of the hobby. Get the fuck out of here with that Marxist community bullshit.
The people's responsibility belongs precisely and solely to the players involved in that group. Or any group. Anywhere, at a private home, at a gamestore, at a convention. Wherever. If you have an idiot DM--or "Creeper" or whatever flavor of moron--the solution is simple, and yours alone--get up, excuse yourself, and say "Sorry, but this game isn't for me"--and leave, and never come back. That's when you look at the group boards at the store, or online, or whatever, and find another DM.
Yeah, that's what people did back in the fucking days of the dinosaurs, when I was in high school. Before cell phones. Before computers. If some jackass DM was attempting to run bullshit, they got left hard.
Hell, even associates and such--that you knew weren't total jackasses--when they would get in some jackass mood, we'd say, "Dude, get it going right. Stop the BS and fucking around"--which, for most normal people, was sufficient warning from friends or hoped-for-friends to unfuck your game and run it right, as people were assuming that you would. Even people back then could be jackasses now and then, and it was handled promptly, on the spot. By teenagers.
All this crying and whining. Just fucking check them. They either fly right, or you leave. That simple. As others have mentioned, if you are some total moron DM, word gets around in your town, in your neighborhood, in the local game store--or, I'm certainly assuming in online groups and shit--that you are a total moron DM, and you won't be able to attract any players to your game. End of story, and end of problem.
I think in the deeper problem here is you have a bunch of weak, timid people that don't have the balls to stand up for themselves. There were jackass DM's back in the day--all into slaughterfests, racism, rape trains, whatever. You know the type. I've heard of a few of them over the years, and people handled them. They were dropped, and excluded, and ostracized. They didn't have large gaming groups, and they were not welcome to join anyone. Eventually those types of moron players and moron DM's just vanished entirely.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on March 31, 2021, 08:11:16 PM
The people's responsibility belongs precisely and solely to the players involved in that group. Or any group. Anywhere, at a private home, at a gamestore, at a convention. Wherever. If you have an idiot DM--or "Creeper" or whatever flavor of moron--the solution is simple, and yours alone--get up, excuse yourself, and say "Sorry, but this game isn't for me"--and leave, and never come back. That's when you look at the group boards at the store, or online, or whatever, and find another DM.
Quote from: SHARK on March 31, 2021, 08:11:16 PM
I think in the deeper problem here is you have a bunch of weak, timid people that don't have the balls to stand up for themselves. There were jackass DM's back in the day--all into slaughterfests, racism, rape trains, whatever. You know the type. I've heard of a few of them over the years, and people handled them. They were dropped, and excluded, and ostracized. They didn't have large gaming groups, and they were not welcome to join anyone. Eventually those types of moron players and moron DM's just vanished entirely.
Are we still talking about the group from the OP? From what I read, the DM behaved badly, and they quit the campaign. Isn't that doing just what you advocate here? I felt like their message was more polite than was warranted, but still, they did speak up and they did quit. Is there something different that you think they should have done?
Quote from: jhkim on March 31, 2021, 09:34:22 PM
Quote from: SHARK on March 31, 2021, 08:11:16 PM
The people's responsibility belongs precisely and solely to the players involved in that group. Or any group. Anywhere, at a private home, at a gamestore, at a convention. Wherever. If you have an idiot DM--or "Creeper" or whatever flavor of moron--the solution is simple, and yours alone--get up, excuse yourself, and say "Sorry, but this game isn't for me"--and leave, and never come back. That's when you look at the group boards at the store, or online, or whatever, and find another DM.
Quote from: SHARK on March 31, 2021, 08:11:16 PM
I think in the deeper problem here is you have a bunch of weak, timid people that don't have the balls to stand up for themselves. There were jackass DM's back in the day--all into slaughterfests, racism, rape trains, whatever. You know the type. I've heard of a few of them over the years, and people handled them. They were dropped, and excluded, and ostracized. They didn't have large gaming groups, and they were not welcome to join anyone. Eventually those types of moron players and moron DM's just vanished entirely.
Are we still talking about the group from the OP? From what I read, the DM behaved badly, and they quit the campaign. Isn't that doing just what you advocate here? I felt like their message was more polite than was warranted, but still, they did speak up and they did quit. Is there something different that you think they should have done?
Greetings!
Hey, Jhkim. No, with the OP specific group, they seemed to have responded fine. You know how different tangents and examples get brought into discussions here though. I'm also thinking of the references where people complain about such shitty DM's, and how it is such a horrible atrocity that they exist, and how can these horrible people be in our hobby? Seguing into the racisms/x-card/trans whatever stuff. It also flows into the whiny cancel culture BS.
People in the hobby have disapproved of the jackass DM since forever, and have made their disapproval known. Jackass DM's have been isolated, and eventually, I'm presuming from their absence at the smaller scale--leave the hobby, and go find some other kind of outlet for their pet frustrations and whatever.
Yes, though, the OP group was very polite, perhaps even too polite.
I would have been far more direct. ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
buncha rpg babes not wanting to have children, it's a demographic nightmare (and those tattoos!)
toxic masculinity i've definitely run into as a term
i like her little aol instant messenger set-up, cleverly done. it reminds me of this color-coded chart of cyrillic that i was checking out on etsy, kinda like those settlers of catan cakes.
i personally don't have a problem with depicting anything but then again i've never played with a wide variety of people, just with my high school friends.
Help me here: did D&D ever had rules for pregnant female adventurers? I'm not talking about third-party products, like the The Book of Erotic Fantasy but official rules.
I'm uh... Asking for a friend...
Quote from: Reckall on April 02, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
Help me here: did D&D ever had rules for pregnant female adventurers? I'm not talking about third-party products, like the The Book of Erotic Fantasy but official rules.
I'm uh... Asking for a friend...
I think I saw a letter in Dragon Magazine (specifically, the Sage Advice section) regarding this.
I don't think any official TSR book had rules for it.