I'm designing a web app to make RPGs easier and more accessible. I've been introducing a lot of people to Whitewolf (fairly simple system), but even so people are intimidated by the time it takes to create a character and the books full of rules.
Any suggestions for things that could be made easier? The basic concept so far is:
*An online character sheet that comes with a built in wizard/tutorial (like starting a video game), and where you can click on stats for the appropriate rolls (so you don't have to memorize them).
*A story app for designing and saving story assets (characters, locations, maps, pictures, etc). Eventually, I'd also like to set up a resource-sharing site where GMs can give, trade, or sell story assets they've developed.
*A game session, which loads the characters and the story, allows for private messages, GM requested rolls, automated combat (and other) rolls, and applying effects (bonuses, penalties, etc).
The idea is that, unlike Virtual Tabletops, you wouldn't need to memorize books because in-context helps built into the character sheet or story assets would contain all the info you need for game mechanics. These apps could be used to play games over the internet, or just as an aid to reduce set-up and chart-examining in live games.
Any RPG pet-peeves or rough spots I should address in the app?
(If you like the idea, vote for it here (http://www.saltvalleytally.com/campaign/detail/206), and I can win $5,000 to develop the app!)
I think the biggest hurdle you face is the volume of systems out there and getting them into the app. Also different publishers react differently to these sorts of things. Some see it as free publicity, others see it as using their IP.
Were you hoping to have several game systemson the app, or were you ging to focus on a single system.
Anything that walks new players through the steps of character creation and gives them a workable character record sheet is going to be useful. It is a great way to introduce folks to a system.
As a gm, i need stuff to chart npc and organization relationships, location info pages (everything from inns to kingdoms), npc records, timelines, overland travel, etc. If you can give me something that replaces my need for a three ring binder, you have a solid app (i have tried many andhavent found one that gives be the right amount of ease and control).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;581581As a gm, i need stuff to chart npc and organization relationships, location info pages (everything from inns to kingdoms), npc records, timelines, overland travel, etc. If you can give me something that replaces my need for a three ring binder, you have a solid app (i have tried many andhavent found one that gives be the right amount of ease and control).
And of course, these things are not system specific too.
Alas poor Yorick...
I would suggest talking to an IP copyright friendly company. I am thinking PostHuman Studios, ala Eclipse Phase because they had the balls to put out a free PDF of their main book.
I would also talk to Kevin Siembieda of Palladium Books...whose reputation is the opposite of the IP friendly, but Kevin of 2002 isn't Kevin of 2012 and you may actually find him interested.
White Wolf might be worth contacting too, but you may encounter a bureaucratic wall. However, they have been losing market share badly so perhaps you could offer them something exciting.
Whatever you do, I would talk to potential partners as soon as you have wireframes and before you do any programming.
Best of luck!!!
I'd be interested for sure.
For internet games this could be great. Not so much for live games. The last thing a live game needs is distractions from a half dozen electronic gizmos at the table.
If your FTF game is too complex to to handle with pen, paper, and dice then get a simpler, better system.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;581682For internet games this could be great. Not so much for live games. The last thing a live game needs is distractions from a half dozen electronic gizmos at the table.
If your FTF game is too complex to to handle with pen, paper, and dice then get a simpler, better system.
Off-line creation tools like chargen, world-building, vehicle creation, and the like would be far easier in electronic form, and would not be used at the table.
Record keeping could be done after play from notes made during play.
Maps made and stored digitally can be printed out for use during play.
Why do you think any of this calls for needing five or six electronic gizmos at the table?
Personally, I like using pdfs on my iPad at the table instead of a gaming book, and it can also be used for apps, as well as displaying pictures and video. I would also not find each player using iPads or other tablets in play disturbing at all, so long as it's part of the game. Tablets are much smaller than game books, and far more versatile!
-clash
Publishers really need to bring app developers in-house. Chucking out the book at the table and relying more on a modular, chunky interface for rule sets via iPad or tablet would create a slimmer, meaner and "prettier" version of a role-playing game.
I don't mean a playable gaming tabletop (although that would be pretty slick), but having rules available at the press of a button and broadly interactive elements would turn the idea of the standard RPG faire on its ear.
Don't get me wrong - I like PDFs. But no one is doing them right. Rather, they're not taking advantage of the full capabilities of tablets.
I know, I know - some people are luddites. Some people don't want laptops at their table (which I kind of agree with). But tablets used strictly for note-taking, reference guidelines for rules and character sheets would streamline the multitude of notes, stack of books, slurry of notes stuffed sideways in folders and "fix" the slowdown period involved with looking up specific rules around the gaming table. Plus, having rulebooks available as interactive apps would draw in new fans - which this hobby desperately needs.
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;581691I know, I know - some people are luddites. Some people don't want laptops at their table (which I kind of agree with). But tablets used strictly for note-taking, reference guidelines for rules and character sheets would streamline the multitude of notes, stack of books, slurry of notes stuffed sideways in folders and "fix" the slowdown period involved with looking up specific rules around the gaming table. Plus, having rulebooks available as interactive apps would draw in new fans - which this hobby desperately needs.
So long as these devices do not have an active internet connection they might be ok at the table.
Rules should be no more than one page.
Character sheet is no more than one side of an index card.
When I ran Amber at GenCon I included all the rules for each power, and skill (i added a skill system) on the character sheets.
Because I run my games differently to others and because I also ran with players who had never played before and had no idea of the rules this was really useful.
So if your character builder also explained how the rules round each bit worked so you ended up with say a 2 side character sheet that also incorporated all the rules about how the skills and powers interacted with the world that would be useful.
A couple of comments
Bookmarked Digest sized rulebook work really nicely. I was impressed by how well my Majestic Wilderlands works on my iPad. But I was really impressed at how well the Classic Traveller Books worked out.
What I really want right now out of a Tablet RPG Manual is a very simple concept. I ought be able to tap any table or Rule Mechanic and be able to roll and show me the result. Much like the DCC RPG Table App I got through the Kickstarter but integrated with the Rulebook. Some of this may require a wizard or setup dialog before the result can be shown.
And don't put it in one spot, any time there is a reference make it a touch away.
I really really wish that NBos's Inspiration Pad Pro was on the iPad.
In fact I greatly recommend NBos's The Keep. It is a great app for organizing campaign material. It is kinda of simple in concept but in practice it works way better. Like VTTs are really just Whiteboard displaying images but add just enough bells and whistles you can replicate the Tabletop experience on the internet.
Quote from: 1989;581694Rules should be no more than one page.
Character sheet is no more than one side of an index card.
But what about for those of us who aren't LARPing?
My objection to the use of a smartphone/tablet application is quite simple: if you go to the trouble of digitizing the database of rules and effects, you are already most of the way towards making a proper videogame out of a TRPG so you might as well finish the job and turn your TRPG into a persistent online RPG (more Neverwinter Nights than World of Warcraft). A TRPG should strive to not need any electronics at all, especially for new players, to use and master.
Quote from: flyingmice;581687Off-line creation tools like chargen, world-building, vehicle creation, and the like would be far easier in electronic form, and would not be used at the table.
DungeonDelver piqued my interest in 're-creating' the old DOS DM Assistant program. All those things are almost perfectly suited for databases (pretty much everything a GM does, actually), it's just a matter of getting a good interface and making it customizable. But if Yorick can't get around to it, I might just get a hold of you when I have some of that mythical 'free time' all the kids are talking about these days. :)
QuotePersonally, I like using pdfs on my iPad at the table instead of a gaming book, and it can also be used for apps, as well as displaying pictures and video. I would also not find each player using iPads or other tablets in play disturbing at all, so long as it's part of the game. Tablets are much smaller than game books, and far more versatile!
-clash
Laptops also allow for passing 'notes' to individual players with a modicum of secrecy via IM. And I have always been interested in gaming books that are landscape formatted for use on laptops, but formatting them for an iPad might be tricky. With the growing use of e-book devices, I think the effort would be worth it.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;581692So long as these devices do not have an active internet connection they might be ok at the table.
I have a tablet, that I commonly am attached to the internet via wireless.
But...I don't surf while gaming. I look up rules, sometimes pull up Wikipedia to look at an article relating to a question in-game, and otherwise
play the damn game.
Maybe I grew up in a different age, but it was considered rude to read a book or newspaper when you had a guest, when I was growing up. Like, pulling your dick out of your pants in public, rude.
Just saying.
Quote from: Novastar;581816Like, pulling your dick out of your pants in public, rude.
Wait, when did that start being rude? :)
Quote from: StormBringer;581817Wait, when did that start being rude? :)
Since it made the menfolk jealous, and the ladies swoon.
i.e. Never in MY lifetime. :p
Quote from: StormBringer;581814DungeonDelver piqued my interest in 're-creating' the old DOS DM Assistant program. All those things are almost perfectly suited for databases (pretty much everything a GM does, actually), it's just a matter of getting a good interface and making it customizable. But if Yorick can't get around to it, I might just get a hold of you when I have some of that mythical 'free time' all the kids are talking about these days. :)
That would be awesome, Stormy! I firmly believe this "Free Time" malarkey is purest myth!
-clash
Who has free time with all those Gordon Ramsay shows on TV lately?
I like things that make my gaming simple. Color me intrigued especially if it would be cellphone friendly.
Nipples again!
Quote from: 1989;581887Nipples again!
Yeah, most mammals have them.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;581889Yeah, most mammals have them.
-clash
All of them do. Except the Platypus. You can say alot of things that go something like "all mammals _________ except the platypus".
Freaking platypus!
Quote from: Doctor Jest;581932All of them do. Except the Platypus. You can say alot of things that go something like "all mammals _________ except the platypus".
Freaking platypus!
Don't forget the echidna, also like the platypus a monotreme. Thus the "most mammals" bit.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;581933Don't forget the echidna, also like the platypus a monotreme. Thus the "most mammals" bit.
-clash
WTF was up with evolution in Australia, anyways?
Quote from: Doctor Jest;581971WTF was up with evolution in Australia, anyways?
Not many people know this, but Mother Nature was experimenting with LSD when she designed the specs for Australia. It's kept hushed up, of course...
-clash
Paper and pen is being phased out in business and at home by increasing reliance on electronic devices.
It only makes sense for RPGs to adjust to modern realities.
I don't see much difference between the guy who flips through rulebooks throughout the game vs. the guy who dorks around with his laptop throughout the game.
Quote from: Spinachcat;581988Paper and pen is being phased out in business and at home by increasing reliance on electronic devices.
It only makes sense for RPGs to adjust to modern realities.
I don't see much difference between the guy who flips through rulebooks throughout the game vs. the guy who dorks around with his laptop throughout the game.
A rulebook on a tablet is no different than a pen & paper one, as far as ease of reference during play, but I don't think a cellphone app will ever be able to reproduce the visceral experience of rolling funky dice.
Quote from: TristramEvans;582004A rulebook on a tablet is no different than a pen & paper one, as far as ease of reference during play, but I don't think a cellphone app will ever be able to reproduce the visceral experience of rolling funky dice.
Actually, most pdfs are searchable, and much easier to look up stuff in.
-clash
Quote from: Exploderwizard;581682For internet games this could be great. Not so much for live games. The last thing a live game needs is distractions from a half dozen electronic gizmos at the table.
If your FTF game is too complex to to handle with pen, paper, and dice then get a simpler, better system.
I'm curious when you say that electronic gizmos are distracting. What is distracting about them? Does this outweigh the distraction of separate character sheets, decide, tables and tokens? Is consulting a screen more distracting than consulting a character sheet?
I definitely want to create not only an easy experience, but a quality experience. What specifically should I avoid in designing an app?
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;581809My objection to the use of a smartphone/tablet application is quite simple: if you go to the trouble of digitizing the database of rules and effects, you are already most of the way towards making a proper videogame out of a TRPG so you might as well finish the job and turn your TRPG into a persistent online RPG (more Neverwinter Nights than World of Warcraft). A TRPG should strive to not need any electronics at all, especially for new players, to use and master.
But the difference is that any programmed RPG is going to limit people to pre-programmed interactions. Any TRPG app would have to leave narration to players and GMs to preserve the freedom and creativity. I think the test is that the app is still useful and enjoyable in a live session, not just for online sessions.
And what do you mean by need? You wouldn't NEED the app... but I'm hearing from a lot of people that not hunting down tables in books would make the TRPG experience smoother and more enjoyable. People who like the books can still buy the books and the dice; the app just opens up a different style of play.
Quote from: TristramEvans;582004A rulebook on a tablet is no different than a pen & paper one, as far as ease of reference during play, but I don't think a cellphone app will ever be able to reproduce the visceral experience of rolling funky dice.
What if you have to throw phone in order to 'roll'? ;)
Quote from: Yorick Tome;582032What if you have to throw phone in order to 'roll'? ;)
I think at that point you've crossed into the realm of indoor sports :)
Quote from: Yorick Tome;582025I'm curious when you say that electronic gizmos are distracting. What is distracting about them? Does this outweigh the distraction of separate character sheets, decide, tables and tokens? Is consulting a screen more distracting than consulting a character sheet?
I definitely want to create not only an easy experience, but a quality experience. What specifically should I avoid in designing an app?
Your app can be very well designed. It isn't the gaming app that becomes an issue. It's an internet connection, an instant portal into you tube, lolcats, and other drivel that will undoubtably get called up and detract from the game just by virtue of existence.
I'd argue that the medium doesn't truly matter. If it's someone flipping through a stack of books or reading a PDF on an iPad - a player that's not engaged is simply not engaged.
Everyone in my group is required to turn off their ringers and only check text messages during breaks. I welcome tablets and iPads, but no laptops as they're visually distracting. My expectations are generally met, as the players know that they should be paying attention. Plus, I give out bonus EXP for remaining in-character and off the phone.
Quote from: TristramEvans;582004but I don't think a cellphone app will ever be able to reproduce the visceral experience of rolling funky dice.
Anybody remember the Dragonbone electronic die roller from the back of the Dragon in the 80s?
Quote from: Yorick Tome;582031You wouldn't NEED the app... but I'm hearing from a lot of people that not hunting down tables in books would make the TRPG experience smoother and more enjoyable.
I agree. Its a regular discussion on the Palladium Forums because Rifts books are all blended. Each splatbook is part settting, part class book, part gear book so players often complain of dragging around 4-6 books for one character.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;582042It isn't the gaming app that becomes an issue. It's an internet connection, an instant portal into you tube, lolcats, and other drivel that will undoubtably get called up and detract from the game just by virtue of existence.
I can see this as an issue, but I suspect that is already happening at many tables and perhaps if an app existed, at least the comp would be doing something positive for the game.
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;582047Plus, I give out bonus EXP for remaining in-character and off the phone.
What if they have their nose in the books looking up rules?
Quote from: Exploderwizard;582042Your app can be very well designed. It isn't the gaming app that becomes an issue. It's an internet connection, an instant portal into you tube, lolcats, and other drivel that will undoubtably get called up and detract from the game just by virtue of existence.
Oddly enough, cracked.com (http://www.cracked.com/article_19380_6-beneficial-things-they-made-you-stop-doing-in-school.html) touched on the issue of doodling in the classroom setting, and came to exactly the opposite conclusion. Their thesus was essentially that any minor distraction that keeps them from being completely bored will prevent outright daydreaming. As that article says, yes, it is rude to the presenter, but daydreaming would be even moreso...
As for specific advice about the app, I'd probably suggest a framework of reusable code, with specific releases for each supported RPG. Not only would it drive over all user counts (as people with more than one RPG bend will download more than one app), but you get to tailor the fine details within each product.
Quote from: mcbobbo;582177As for specific advice about the app, I'd probably suggest a framework of reusable code, with specific releases for each supported RPG. Not only would it drive over all user counts (as people with more than one RPG bend will download more than one app), but you get to tailor the fine details within each product.
I agree entirely. I think this would be your best bet.
-clash
Quote from: mcbobbo;582177As for specific advice about the app, I'd probably suggest a framework of reusable code, with specific releases for each supported RPG. Not only would it drive over all user counts (as people with more than one RPG bend will download more than one app), but you get to tailor the fine details within each product.
I will have to disagree. The fastest way to lose customers, especially software customers, is making them buy the same program several times. You might be able to get away with selling the modules for each game at a small price, but you would be better with an extensible program that allows users to create their own extensions for each different game and provide them to fellow users.
Quote from: StormBringer;582212I will have to disagree. The fastest way to lose customers, especially software customers, is making them buy the same program several times. You might be able to get away with selling the modules for each game at a small price, but you would be better with an extensible program that allows users to create their own extensions for each different game and provide them to fellow users.
Well, you're talking about software, and I'm talking about apps. When your investment is a whopping dollar, you tend to be more forgiving about these sorts of things.
Have you seen how many different versions of Angry Birds there are? Does this support your opinion, or mine?
:)
Character generation and updating is definitely something that can often benefit from computerization!
I have a hard time picturing myself running a Chivalry & Sorcery campaign again without such assistance. The other day, some friends expressed a desire for a program for AD&D, and I'm not sure how well the old MS-DOS Dungeon Master's Assistant would suit them. I've met a number of people who are enthusiastic about the online service for "4e" D&D.
This is all very system specific, though. That means there are potentially copyright issues.
Quote from: mcbobbo;582220Well, you're talking about software, and I'm talking about apps. When your investment is a whopping dollar, you tend to be more forgiving about these sorts of things.
Have you seen how many different versions of Angry Birds there are? Does this support your opinion, or mine?
:)
Ok, that's true; smartphone app consumers are a good deal more tolerant of that. In that environment, it probably makes more sense anyway, I am not 100% sure how easy or efficient it would be to make an expansion pack for such a small game to begin with, so there may be little choice.
I am not 100% sure how well something like the program under discussion would work as strictly an app, though. I see a good many features being left off, like storage of characters or any moderate body of information. Character generation, treasure generation, maybe keeping track of combat for most games, and maybe a couple other computation intensive functions would work well. I don't think I could see a robust all-purpose GM assistant as a smartphone app, though. However, those basic functions may be all a good majority of gamers are looking for.
Quote from: mcbobbo;582220Well, you're talking about software, and I'm talking about apps. When your investment is a whopping dollar, you tend to be more forgiving about these sorts of things.
Have you seen how many different versions of Angry Birds there are? Does this support your opinion, or mine?
:)
Yes, Stormy - Apps are a very different kettle of fish from programs. If it were a program costing an appreciable amount, then I'd be with you, but apps are priced in the candy bar range. :D
-clash
I have no interest in Apps.
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