Quote from: Exploderwizard;581682For internet games this could be great. Not so much for live games. The last thing a live game needs is distractions from a half dozen electronic gizmos at the table.

If your FTF game is too complex to to handle with pen, paper, and dice then get a simpler, better system.

I'm curious when you say that electronic gizmos are distracting. What is distracting about them?  Does this outweigh the distraction of separate character sheets, decide, tables and tokens?  Is consulting a screen more distracting than consulting a character sheet?

I definitely want to create not only an easy experience, but a quality experience.  What specifically should I avoid in designing an app?

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;581809My objection to the use of a smartphone/tablet application is quite simple: if you go to the trouble of digitizing the database of rules and effects, you are already most of the way towards making a proper videogame out of a TRPG so you might as well finish the job and turn your TRPG into a persistent online RPG (more Neverwinter Nights than World of Warcraft).  A TRPG should strive to not need any electronics at all, especially for new players, to use and master.

But the difference is that any programmed RPG is going to limit people to pre-programmed interactions. Any TRPG app would have to leave narration to players and GMs to preserve the freedom and creativity.  I think the test is that the app is still useful and enjoyable in a live session, not just for online sessions.

And what do you mean by need?  You wouldn't NEED the app... but I'm hearing from a lot of people that not hunting down tables in books would make the TRPG experience smoother and more enjoyable.  People who like the books can still buy the books and the dice; the app just opens up a different style of play.

Quote from: TristramEvans;582004A rulebook on a tablet is no different than a pen & paper one, as far as ease of reference during play, but I don't think a cellphone app will ever be able to reproduce the visceral experience of rolling funky dice.

What if you have to throw phone in order to 'roll'?

Quote from: Yorick Tome;582032What if you have to throw phone in order to 'roll'?

I think at that point you've crossed into the realm of indoor sports

Quote from: Yorick Tome;582025I'm curious when you say that electronic gizmos are distracting. What is distracting about them?  Does this outweigh the distraction of separate character sheets, decide, tables and tokens?  Is consulting a screen more distracting than consulting a character sheet?

I definitely want to create not only an easy experience, but a quality experience.  What specifically should I avoid in designing an app?

Your app can be very well designed. It isn't the gaming app that becomes an issue. It's an internet connection, an instant portal into you tube, lolcats, and other drivel that will undoubtably get called up and detract from the game just by virtue of existence.

I'd argue that the medium doesn't truly matter. If it's someone flipping through a stack of books or reading a PDF on an iPad - a player that's not engaged is simply not engaged.

Everyone in my group is required to turn off their ringers and only check text messages during breaks. I welcome tablets and iPads, but no laptops as they're visually distracting. My expectations are generally met, as the players know that they should be paying attention. Plus, I give out bonus EXP for remaining in-character and off the phone.

Quote from: TristramEvans;582004but I don't think a cellphone app will ever be able to reproduce the visceral experience of rolling funky dice.

Anybody remember the Dragonbone electronic die roller from the back of the Dragon in the 80s?

Quote from: Yorick Tome;582031You wouldn't NEED the app... but I'm hearing from a lot of people that not hunting down tables in books would make the TRPG experience smoother and more enjoyable.

I agree. Its a regular discussion on the Palladium Forums because Rifts books are all blended. Each splatbook is part settting, part class book, part gear book so players often complain of dragging around 4-6 books for one character.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;582042It isn't the gaming app that becomes an issue. It's an internet connection, an instant portal into you tube, lolcats, and other drivel that will undoubtably get called up and detract from the game just by virtue of existence.

I can see this as an issue, but I suspect that is already happening at many tables and perhaps if an app existed, at least the comp would be doing something positive for the game.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;582047Plus, I give out bonus EXP for remaining in-character and off the phone.

What if they have their nose in the books looking up rules?

Quote from: Exploderwizard;582042Your app can be very well designed. It isn't the gaming app that becomes an issue. It's an internet connection, an instant portal into you tube, lolcats, and other drivel that will undoubtably get called up and detract from the game just by virtue of existence.

Oddly enough, cracked.com touched on the issue of doodling in the classroom setting, and came to exactly the opposite conclusion.  Their thesus was essentially that any minor distraction that keeps them from being completely bored will prevent outright daydreaming.  As that article says, yes, it is rude to the presenter, but daydreaming would be even moreso...

As for specific advice about the app, I'd probably suggest a framework of reusable code, with specific releases for each supported RPG.  Not only would it drive over all user counts (as people with more than one RPG bend will download more than one app), but you get to tailor the fine details within each product.

Quote from: mcbobbo;582177As for specific advice about the app, I'd probably suggest a framework of reusable code, with specific releases for each supported RPG.  Not only would it drive over all user counts (as people with more than one RPG bend will download more than one app), but you get to tailor the fine details within each product.

I agree entirely. I think this would be your best bet.

-clash

Quote from: mcbobbo;582177As for specific advice about the app, I'd probably suggest a framework of reusable code, with specific releases for each supported RPG.  Not only would it drive over all user counts (as people with more than one RPG bend will download more than one app), but you get to tailor the fine details within each product.

I will have to disagree.  The fastest way to lose customers, especially software customers, is making them buy the same program several times.  You might be able to get away with selling the modules for each game at a small price, but you would be better with an extensible program that allows users to create their own extensions for each different game and provide them to fellow users.

Quote from: StormBringer;582212I will have to disagree.  The fastest way to lose customers, especially software customers, is making them buy the same program several times.  You might be able to get away with selling the modules for each game at a small price, but you would be better with an extensible program that allows users to create their own extensions for each different game and provide them to fellow users.

Well, you're talking about software, and I'm talking about apps.  When your investment is a whopping dollar, you tend to be more forgiving about these sorts of things.

Have you seen how many different versions of Angry Birds there are?  Does this support your opinion, or mine?

Character generation and updating is definitely something that can often benefit from computerization!

I have a hard time picturing myself running a Chivalry & Sorcery campaign again without such assistance. The other day, some friends expressed a desire for a program for AD&D, and I'm not sure how well the old MS-DOS Dungeon Master's Assistant would suit them. I've met a number of people who are enthusiastic about the online service for "4e" D&D.

This is all very system specific, though. That means there are potentially copyright issues.

Quote from: mcbobbo;582220Well, you're talking about software, and I'm talking about apps.  When your investment is a whopping dollar, you tend to be more forgiving about these sorts of things.

Have you seen how many different versions of Angry Birds there are?  Does this support your opinion, or mine?

Ok, that's true; smartphone app consumers are a good deal more tolerant of that.  In that environment, it probably makes more sense anyway, I am not 100% sure how easy or efficient it would be to make an expansion pack for such a small game to begin with, so there may be little choice.

I am not 100% sure how well something like the program under discussion would work as strictly an app, though.   I see a good many features being left off, like storage of characters or any moderate body of information.  Character generation, treasure generation, maybe keeping track of combat for most games, and maybe a couple other computation intensive functions would work well.  I don't think I could see a robust all-purpose GM assistant as a smartphone app, though.  However, those basic functions may be all a good majority of gamers are looking for.

Quote from: mcbobbo;582220Well, you're talking about software, and I'm talking about apps.  When your investment is a whopping dollar, you tend to be more forgiving about these sorts of things.

Have you seen how many different versions of Angry Birds there are?  Does this support your opinion, or mine?

Yes, Stormy - Apps are a very different kettle of fish from programs. If it were a program costing an appreciable amount, then I'd be with you, but apps are priced in the candy bar range.

-clash