I've always been turned off to Gurps because of the way people seem to make their characters. It doesn't matter how few points you have to spend, people will still get their 3rd defense for the round up to 13.

It just seems so easy to twink out a character by picking everything that applies the same bonus, or pumping a skill.

Maybe we were playing it wrong. Does anyone think Gurps requires a lot of GM supervision in the character creation process?

Quote from: Cranewings;395381Does anyone think Gurps requires a lot of GM supervision in the character creation process?

YES!!!!!

3rd edition does, to a point. Give them a point limit, put a limit on total disadvantage points allowed, tell them which disadvantages you will not allow, and that's usually good enough to keep it from getting too insane.

Usually.

The biggest problem I have is disgruntling the players by not giving them "enough" points. Tough. I know what its like to try to have a decent plot spoiled by neigh-invulnerable supermen who can shoot wings off a fly a 1,000 yards.

Speaking of which, ALWAYS use and enforce range, size, snapshot, and other penalties. Always always, or it gets crazy fast.

Quote from: Werekoala;3953853rd edition does, to a point. Give them a point limit, put a limit on total disadvantage points allowed, tell them which disadvantages you will not allow, and that's usually good enough to keep it from getting too insane.

So my one-handed, shell-shocked, sexually deviant, hemophiliac master swordsman is a no-go for your campaign then?

Quote from: CranewingsDoes anyone think Gurps requires a lot of GM supervision in the character creation process?

Indeed I do.  But GURPS isn't alone in this one.  If the guidance you get from this forum doesn't help enough, try this: Attempt to run a Big Eyes Small Mouth 2nd Edition campaign.  GURPS will feel like a breath of fresh air once the BESM one burns down for related (but much worse) reasons. :hatsoff:

Quote from: Werekoala;395385...put a limit on total disadvantage points allowed, tell them which disadvantages you will not allow...

Or make disadvantages a character feature that must be bought just like advantages.  In my experience, the conversation that ensues often results in an agreement that both advantages and disadvantages should be disallowed as buy/earn point items (i.e. choose either for free as character flavor, not for point balance).

!i!

Quote from: Cranewings;395381I've always been turned off to Gurps because of the way people seem to make their characters. It doesn't matter how few points you have to spend, people will still get their 3rd defense for the round up to 13.

It just seems so easy to twink out a character by picking everything that applies the same bonus, or pumping a skill.

Maybe we were playing it wrong. Does anyone think Gurps requires a lot of GM supervision in the character creation process?

I've never had a problem with this in my recent games.

Of course, you guys already say I'm a bit odd because of my mix of players. Even with the new group - they told me what they wanted , then trusted me to give them a character close to that. The two players with past gaming experience both made characters that were plausible and reasonable.

Two years ago - in August of 2008, I did have trouble with two guys that wanted to argue character points and play kitchen siunk with things on their sheets. I'll never likely game with those two guys again. In 20/20 hindsight they were both on the immature side. Basically 14 year olds in the chronological bodies of adults.

The easiest way to take care of your issue is I think to just tell the players "Okay, this is the tech level your characters are adventuring at and we're going for believability - not cinematic or over-the-top stuff. "
If your players are relatively normal mature folks they should get the hint from that.  (hopefully)

- Ed C.

Quote from: winkingbishop;395386So my one-handed, shell-shocked, sexually deviant, hemophiliac master swordsman is a no-go for your campaign then?
[\quote]

Dude, you're not even trying. Brain-in-a-jar with bloodlust and murder addiction.

Amateur.

Quote from: winkingbishop;395386So my one-handed, shell-shocked, sexually deviant, hemophiliac master swordsman is a no-go for your campaign then?

Damn you!  I've been waiting years for a thread like this so I could make a joke like that!

Quote from: Technomancer;395397Damn you!  I've been waiting years for a thread like this so I could make a joke like that!

Well, with GURPS, the possibilities are endless, so have at it!

!i!

Quote from: Technomancer;395397Damn you!  I've been waiting years for a thread like this so I could make a joke like that!

Quote from: Ian Absentia;395401Well, with GURPS, the possibilities are endless, so have at it!

!i!

Seriously.  Hell, you could start a whole thread just for point-buy chargen horror stories.  GURPS isn't unique here.

Sometimes you stumble on some interesting synergies. I made a courtier-type character once, and didn't realize until I was done just how many pretty-cheap advantages and talents raise sex appeal. I ended up with a pretty competent character(150 points, if memory serves) who had most important-to-her-profession skills in the 12 to 15 range, a few "key skills" in the 16 to 18 range, and sex appeal at like 27.

At least with the various "rule of #" rules, you don't really have to worry about super high values disrupting the game. And the advantages that give you actual immunity are extremely expensive.

Well, as you all know I'm gearing up for a GURPS campaign, and one of the things I did was write a campaign guide. Short, 2 pages, but very useful, because it outlines the feel of the world and what I want and the limits for character generation. As it stands, there'll be no 1000 meter super archers.

One of the things with GURPS is, because it's modular, you can use the rules you like. So for this game, I told everyone in my campaign guide that I WILL be enforcing ranges and encumbrance, for example, and that they had a certain limit to disadvantages, and finally the sort of things I expected advantage-wise, i.e., it all must make sense to your plausible backstory.

So, I shouldn't end up with a party full of guys with combat reflexes and the like. Also, as per the rules, social status, wealth, and rank matter, so, points should end up there for those who want social characters. I'll see what I get; one guy will definitely try to min-max his way to freedom, but I don't think he'll make it.

Quote from: winkingbishop;395386So my one-handed, shell-shocked, sexually deviant, hemophiliac master swordsman is a no-go for your campaign then?

At my fitness instructor school there was a legally-blind albino martial artist of remarkable strength. He was of Egyptian heritage, and liked AC/DC and driving fast cars.

"But surely you're not allowed to have a license?"
"I'm not. But I still enjoy it."

He's not "everything is black" blind, but legally blind. For example, to read a page he looks through a sort of jeweller's eyeglass. So when he talks to you he tends to tilt his head to look at you. A lovely guy, too. You'd trust him with just about anything.

When I met him, my first thought was that he sounded like a GURPS character. So people like this really do exist. But more commonly, some prick gets all the Advantages, and some poor sod gets all the Disadvantages. Real life is not point-buy, alas.

Interesting.

 Kyle Aaron just reeminded me - one of my longtime friends that lives in Columbus might fit this category.

She is Albino, 6 feet tall, technically legally blind and wasn't allowed to drive until recently. It turns out that a new type of eyeglasses makes it possible and legal for her to drive cars. She also plays Ice Hockey for fun and exercise.  Her husband and she are also very avid church-goers and a major tad more vreligiopus than I am. (enough so that it would register on a character sheet)
Oh yeah she makes jewelry with her husband and mother in law.
If any of you guys were at ORIGINS this year you saw her booth - right up near the front of the Dealers room the left side aisle.

She and her husband both used to be emissaries/referees for WizKids and they preferred MechWarrior Clix at the time.

But yeah - she'd be interesting on a GURPS character sheet.  So would her husband.

- Ed C.

To paraphrase the bard :"The fault lies not in out system but in out players."

 If the players are twinking out on combat monsters and min maxing to the point their characters look like some sort of comical parody of a good character in the same way some athletes steroid up until they look like mesomorphic parodies of human beings then it's not the systems fault and no system will change that.

 It's the players habits that need changing, not the system.

 Personal feelings towards SJG asides, G4e did a decent job of labeling advantages and disadvantages with various icons, some of them are warnings that the particular trait can unbalance a game if not supervised carefully.

 So don't pick out gurps or any  other system for the "Players can make monster characters with it!!!"  issue, it's endemic to any points buy system and the only cures are good, responsible players or a strict GM.

I prefer the former.