Personally, I'd have gone the whole X-Files route with Hunters Hunted being the focus of the world.  But then, I freely admit that I HATE Vampires.  So really, don't what I say all that seriously.

So I cooled off and decided to look at this with a clearer head.

• ditch the ST system and use something that isn't outmoded and broken
• ignore the WoD vs CoD distinction: cherry pick, mix and match, have badwrongfun!
• ditch the separate settings and let everyone play together, since you're using a different ruleset anyway
• ditch the absurd themes of the games and base the factions on the (American) political axis: Stormfront, Democrat, and SJW.
• Stormfront is the current ruling faction and the PCs are members of the subservient Democrat faction expected to overthrow them. The SJWs are the loony faction trying to conquer/destroy the world as we know it.
• Everyone has Arcane Fate/Occultation, so most muggles rationalize the paranormal as terrorists and vigilantes. Monsters cannot take over the world because the muggles have vastly superior numbers and weapons.
• Every monster type has some kind of sorcery. Mages stand out because they have past life memories.
• Optionally, every monster has an corruption meter measuring how power mad and alienated from society they are and this scales with their superpowers. That is, the more magical you are the less empathetic and social you are. This has no downsides besides turning you into an evil overlord wannabe, which is what you were going to be anyway.

Thoughts?

Was Wraith any good? I only read the original Vampire Requiem. Seems there are a lot of Mage and Changeling fans out there.

Quote from: Voros;945877Was Wraith any good? I only read the original Vampire Requiem. Seems there are a lot of Mage and Changeling fans out there.

Wraith was much darker than it needed to be. On top of having unfinished business and an enemy within, the ruling faction wanted to use you as raw materials to make soylent green knickknacks and if they wanted you alive then they demanded you sever your ties to the living world despite needing your unfinished business to continue unliving. I prefer the unfinished Wraith: The Arising fan remake, which is much closer to Oblivion than Requiem was to Masquerade, but drops the unnecessary bleakness because the premise of being a ghost with an enemy within is bleak enough.

Yeah heard abour the Wraith supplement about the Shoah. Sounds like a bundle of fun.

Quote from: Chris24601;945842Caveat 1: Me and my group do Mage: The Ascension and ONLY Mage: The Ascension and specifically with a 2nd Edition ethos so every other story element and thing else in the World of Darkness only exists to the extent that it services that setting.

Caveat 2: The campaign world I run has been ongoing for nearly a quarter century now (not with the same players and we've ended the stories of particular sets of PC's and started new ones, but the world has been persistent and ongoing) and upwards of 90% of the NPCs are actually old PC's from previous games. This colors a LOT of things.

That sounds really cool.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;945885Wraith was much darker than it needed to be. On top of having unfinished business and an enemy within, the ruling faction wanted to use you as raw materials to make soylent green knickknacks and if they wanted you alive then they demanded you sever your ties to the living world despite needing your unfinished business to continue unliving. I prefer the unfinished Wraith: The Arising fan remake, which is much closer to Oblivion than Requiem was to Masquerade, but drops the unnecessary bleakness because the premise of being a ghost with an enemy within is bleak enough.

The more I think about Oblivion, the more I suspect it would make a fantastic gonzo OD&D setting. Necropolis, the Guilds, the Labyrinths, the Harrowings, Spectres... I think Pseudoephedrine used some ideas for his Necrocarcerus setting.

Quote from: The Butcher;945575Start with whatever rule set you prefer, up to and including nWoD/CoD.

Now get A World of Darkness, 1st edition and bask in its magnificent gonzo radiance.

Done and done.

But I vastly prefer the CoD rules, if beats and experiences just went back to the normal naming conventions. The actual rules are without question superior to any other version used in any version of the WoD. And Mage finally uses the exactly the same one success system the other games do. And actually makes internal and external sense in the actual published setting unlike Mage the Ascension with it's consensual/subjective reality and HAP/HOP nonsense combined with Satr-whatthefuck Brucato's completely wrong interpretation and intention of HAP/HOP to just add gas to the fire.

Also, Changeling the Lost is actually a damned fine game that's dark and totally playable. Then Hunter the Vigil like Mage the Awakening makes total internal/external sense with the baseline setting. And the blue line, well that's just a solid game and setting that's able to handle all sorts of modern urban fantasy or horror variants that are low magic/psi easily.

Sammy is right about Beast the Primordial but Matt McFarland isn't a bad guy. I think they wanted to try something different and it just flat made no sense despite the intended concept.

All I know is that in Mage the Awakening 2e you will be an utter prick because the upside is too great to ignore and there are many easy ways to circumvent Wisdom loss or paradox depending just how far you're willing to go. It's the classic dilemma about magic "take what you want, do what you what but you will pay the price in some way either personally or through what or who you actually care for". To be an archmage for example the one's closest to you forget you the hardest, most and quickest permanently. Everyone does even the world in a short time.

And then you have Hunter the Vigil these guys aren't some scattered fools hopelessly insane with no clue they house some of the most ruthlessly evil fucks known beyond the Kindred. Some being played for dupes some very much the opposite. Most Hunters are good though with various reasons for doing what they do. Ranging from Brothers Grimm or Witchhunter to X-Files/Conspiriesy (sp) X to Resident Evil and similar.

Changeling the Lost isn't about lost childhood or imagination like Peter Pan. Imagination is fine and well in adults and science thank you very much. It's about being forcibly changed into something other by utterly alien and godlike beings strong enough to broker a deal with the gods of reality just like the other patron level beings of the other major supernatural types. All the while you're old life IS GONE never to be back and hunted by said bastards forever because they want their toy back and we're not talking just being degraded like Richard Pryor in The Toy at the start.

Marleycat!

Are you currently playing any WoD stuff?

What is superior about the CoD rules? I haven't seen them. Original Werewolf and MtA worked for me just fine.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;945590Why has no one made a Highlander TV Series RPG?

Because it's kind of boring premise for game on it's own. Now if it were one supernatural among many.... now it might get interesting. In otherwords it would make an interesting choice in a Armageddon/Witchcraft or WoD game but not standalone.

Quote from: Spinachcat;945932Marleycat!

Are you currently playing any WoD stuff?

What is superior about the CoD rules? I haven't seen them. Original Werewolf and MtA worked for me just fine.

Hi, Spinachcat,

I am playing in a Mage the Awakening game once a month.

What's superior is less rolling, combat is faster, streamlined mechanics even from NWoD 1e they have a nifty investigation and social subsystem in the base game that both work the social involves opening doors or getting them closed off depending what you've trying against the NPC's. Mage specifically? Paradox with choice/consequences you can contain it or release it and screw everyone else over except yourself for consequences that will come for you later usually. Big thing is single success resolution game wide. This means specialization in a skill is USEFUL. What it means magic wise is that praxis (magical style via spells you use all the time) give critical success on 3 not 5 successes. Which means you can get all mana back or good thing happens player choice.

That's just a small start.

Quote from: Marleycat;945937Because it's kind of boring premise for game on it's own. Now if it were one supernatural among many....

Which it was, if one followed the series.

Not that I don't agree that the trenchcoats & katanas style of play isnt juvenile and boring, but that did seem to be what a certain contingent wants to make the WoD games into.

Quote from: The Butcher;945915The more I think about Oblivion, the more I suspect it would make a fantastic gonzo OD&D setting. Necropolis, the Guilds, the Labyrinths, the Harrowings, Spectres... I think Pseudoephedrine used some ideas for his Necrocarcerus setting.

   I only know Wraith secondhand and from the occasional flipthrough, but this is definitely the vibe I got from some of the promos for Doomslayers: Into the Labyrinth when I got online ... over twenty years ago.

   I feel old.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;945943Which it was, if one followed the series.

Not that I don't agree that the trenchcoats & katanas style of play isnt juvenile and boring, but that did seem to be what a certain contingent wants to make the WoD games into.

Agreed, I'm not adverse to it I'm just middle ground. Not emo just know you can be all that and do what ever you want but humanity will strike back hard or you will pay big if you don't plan. It's why in MtAw 2e it's far less of a possible wisdom hit to murder someone premeditated then to just go kill them straight up. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. In Mage it's easy to kill anything the trick is how to achieve your goal without doing so.

Personally I'd play Witchcraft for the Katana/Trenchcoat thing. It's built for it and the system is simpler and very solid.

Quote from: Marleycat;945951Personally I'd play Witchcraft for the Katana/Trenchcoat thing. It's built for it and the system is simpler and very solid.

Yeah, what happened to Unisystem? Seemed to be going strong, then dropped off the face of the hobby. Something to do with all the licensed games? Though I thought the buffy/angel games were rather popular.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;945953Yeah, what happened to Unisystem? Seemed to be going strong, then dropped off the face of the hobby. Something to do with all the licensed games? Though I thought the buffy/angel games were rather popular.

I have no idea except you can get Witchcraft on PDF free last I knew. It's a great urban fantasy or horror game depending which splats you let in or power level you choose to start in especially if you add in Armageddon. I prefer games where the PC's are a cut above the rest at the start the zero to hero thing is boring the me. I want to affect the world immediately. Armageddon/Witchcraft allow for all styles easily and immediately.