What We Do In Shadows RPG would be a blast.

[video=youtube_share;QWk4YtK-iHY]https://youtu.be/QWk4YtK-iHY[/youtube]

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;947027This is how the evolution of the aging, boring 90's 'goth vampire' setting should evolve with a new World of Darkness:

"I say Shadow Dragon, remember 30 years ago when we weren't all overweight and out of shape?"
"What?"
"I said, 'remember 30 years ago'."
"Oh yeah.  Some great concerts back then!  Not like the music today!"
"True.  By the way, how went your prostrate exam?"
"Ugh.  It's next week, don't remind me."
"Splendid, splendid.  Well, back to pondering the dreary existence that is our ennui."

Quote from: san dee jota;947009*)  Werewolf - It's over.  Gaia is dead, she just hasn't been buried yet.  The Wyrm is taking its time, resting a bit, because Global Warming, population explosion, and mass extinctions are all unstoppable now.  And here you are stuck with your impotent rage.  And the Tribes -still- jockey for power and relevance, because that's all they know how to do.  And with the Umbra getting webbed off by the Weaver, you're stuck here with them.  So go home, try not to hit your spouse and kids (you love them, but you get -soooo- mad), take out your frustrations on that Nexus Crawler across town (it's almost like an affair now... for both of you), and don't think too much about how your life has lost all meaning.

*)  Mage - It was all a lie.  There was no Technocracy, no Nephandi.  Just people playing political games and arguing about bullshit by using big words to make their fights and themselves seem more important.  You knew you were right once, and that enlightenment powered such great things.  But really... you were arrogant and you were sick and now you're popping pills to keep the schizophrenia under control.  All of you are.  Oh sure you can bend reality to your will, but you're so mentally ill you're not sure if it was a Coincidence or a coincidence any more.  And your friends and enemies aren't much better; some of them are even worse off.  (in other words, it's Mage with characters having some sort of Madness Meters and more self-awareness)

Oooooh, I like those an awful lot, actually. I mean, they're depressing as hell, but it's the WoD after all - that might be seen as a feature rather than a bug. And they certainly capture early-middle-aged angst as well as the original games capture adolescent angst.

Quote from: Baeraad;947067Oooooh, I like those an awful lot, actually. I mean, they're depressing as hell, but it's the WoD after all - that might be seen as a feature rather than a bug. And they certainly capture early-middle-aged angst as well as the original games capture adolescent angst.

In the 90's, the WoD was all about that teenage/young adult "listen to me, hear me roar, I know everything because I'm a GenXer!" attitude.  Now we're all about a quarter-century older, and it all seems so dumb.  We don't need a game full of confident anger and angst, we need a game full of uncertain mid-life crisis and aging.  

Quote from: san dee jota;947072In the 90's, the WoD was all about that teenage/young adult "listen to me, hear me roar, I know everything because I'm a GenXer!" attitude.  Now we're all about a quarter-century older, and it all seems so dumb.  We don't need a game full of confident anger and angst, we need a game full of uncertain mid-life crisis and aging.  

I think the appropriate grown up theme for the World of Darkness a quarter century later is this... The scariest thing is not that the world will end but that its going to keep spinning long after we're dust. The Last Days are upon us, but it turns out they're entirely personal. Milestones pass that will never come again and the question turns to 'What am I going to leave behind that endures?' or, more prosaically, 'What is my Legacy?'

For the Vampire it is the struggle to find something worth waking yourself from torpor for and whether what you leave behind can last until you next rouse yourself from slumber.

For Werewolf it is the certainty that will you die and whether you can teach the next generation what they'll need to survive before you do.

For Mage it is whether or not you can leave behind something wonderous in an age where wonders on every corner are ignored as mundane.

The horror aspect in all of those is that what you're doing isn't going to matter and the world will keep right on spinning as if you'd never even been here. Your opponents are those who want to be certain that your efforts count for nothing (rival vampires, the Wyrm and the Technocracy/Nephandi respectively.

It was never great in the first place. You can't wash a turd and try to make anything other than a turd out of it.

The World Of Darkness was never about a mature point of view. It was aimed at those who wanted to fantasize about the social cliques they were exposed to in high school. It was a overblown power fantasy teamed up with a big dose of social masturbation.

If you change that, you change the fundamental basis of a set of games that is based completely on an immature world view.

Alex Jones tells Bad Touch Donny wild conspiracy theories about how reptilians/ liquid metal space elves/ Knights Templar/ Nephilim are the Secret Globalist New World Order Illuminati KEEPING AMERICA DOWN.

POTUS then sees the ultra-secret (Woefully incomplete, fragmentary, garbled, half-true) Deep State files on vampires, garou, mages, etc.

He "Puts two and two together" and becomes the first president to declare total war (Albeit a secret war) on the supernatural. A secret concentration camp is built in the Utah desert. Skinheads, gang-bangers, and religious weirdos are quietly deputised and trained for "The Ultimate Holy War for the Future of America and the Entire Human Race!". Elon Musk builds anti-vampire weapons in exchange for the president's ear and tax breaks.

All the vampires in San Francisco die in one night. Six princes go down over two weeks. The Camarilla is discussing fleeing en masse to Europe. No quarter is given even to "Good" monsters. Slaughter not seen since the darkest days of the burning stake.

Now, vampires really are the underground, hunted, tormented punk rebels they always pretended to be.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;947120Alex Jones tells Bad Touch Donny wild conspiracy theories about how reptilians/ liquid metal space elves/ Knights Templar/ Nephilim are the Secret Globalist New World Order Illuminati KEEPING AMERICA DOWN.

POTUS then sees the ultra-secret (Woefully incomplete, fragmentary, garbled, half-true) Deep State files on vampires, garou, mages, etc.

He "Puts two and two together" and becomes the first president to declare total war (Albeit a secret war) on the supernatural. A secret concentration camp is built in the Utah desert. Skinheads, gang-bangers, and religious weirdos are quietly deputised and trained for "The Ultimate Holy War for the Future of America and the Entire Human Race!". Elon Musk builds anti-vampire weapons in exchange for the president's ear and tax breaks.

All the vampires in San Francisco die in one night. Six princes go down over two weeks. The Camarilla is discussing fleeing en masse to Europe. No quarter is given even to "Good" monsters. Slaughter not seen since the darkest days of the burning stake.

Now, vampires really are the underground, hunted, tormented punk rebels they always pretended to be.

Hmm, A Hunter's Hunted campaign where the final global inquisition goes on? Basically a Fantasy Flight "The End of the World" rpg for cWoD?

I'd totally play that.

I would totally play that as either the human grist fodder for the inquisition mill, or as the monsters being systematically wiped out irrevocably in under a year.

The humans could easily be OSR-esque, 3d6 straight down, holy crusade/jihad, sheer numbers guerrilla open warfare fighters. The WoD monsters as players can still be the "precious bean bag" Storyteller system, and the game is how long your monster can scramble against assured annihilation, or "find final meaning," or last noble act before the fall, etc.

Could be lots of fun! And I hate zombie survival horror games.

Though the hunter swarm one sounds super fun! DCC random chargen PCs vs. WoD chargen minigame NPCs mashup! Ooh, we could call it Special Snowflake Smash, abbreviated SSS, just like Sigue Sigue Sputnik! You play with X PCs "quarters," join a table team, and go all XCrawl-Smash TV-Robotron against the WoD merit/flaw slathered preciousness, and shoot for the highest score!

That sounds crazy fun horror!

Quote from: Opaopajr;947135Hmm, A Hunter's Hunted campaign where the final global inquisition goes on? Basically a Fantasy Flight "The End of the World" rpg for cWoD?

I'd totally play that.

I would totally play that as either the human grist fodder for the inquisition mill, or as the monsters being systematically wiped out irrevocably in under a year.

The humans could easily be OSR-esque, 3d6 straight down, holy crusade/jihad, sheer numbers guerrilla open warfare fighters. The WoD monsters as players can still be the "precious bean bag" Storyteller system, and the game is how long your monster can scramble against assured annihilation, or "find final meaning," or last noble act before the fall, etc.

Could be lots of fun! And I hate zombie survival horror games.

Though the hunter swarm one sounds super fun! DCC random chargen PCs vs. WoD chargen minigame NPCs mashup! Ooh, we could call it Special Snowflake Smash, abbreviated SSS, just like Sigue Sigue Sputnik! You play with X PCs "quarters," join a table team, and go all XCrawl-Smash TV-Robotron against the WoD merit/flaw slathered preciousness, and shoot for the highest score!

That sounds crazy fun horror!

You seem to have a real issue with players and their characters having actual power and intelligence. You seem to dig being an ignorant boring zero type that dies for no particular reason that makes a damn bit of sense. I know this because I have had you as a DM and it was boring and frustrating no matter what I tried to do which was very little given you de facto eliminated most of any possible interesting concept right from the start. So yeah CoC is interesting for a one off type of game but as a campaign not even.

Yeah, you guessed it right that I think Snake Cult's premise is boring really boring. As are any street level games or zeroes to hero journey crap stories. I prefer being somebody that matters like Harry Dresden or Buffy or the women from Charmed or even Angel or the guys from Supernatural.

It's a copout to be horrified when you can't do a damn thing against it. Real horror is when you can and understand there will be a price no matter how many precautions you try to take.

Vampires are bad people because they are serial killers with political and social power. Werewolves are bad because they are hunters of intelligent beings not mere animals. While being half human themselves.

Mages are bad because they have ultimate power and ultimate power corrupts fully. Obviously you have no clue about this and think it's you against the players and your precious story/vision as this very post  that I quoted proves beyond a shadow of doubt. You don't even try to hide your contempt of characters with competency. Hordes of ignorant hunters against special snowflakes?(characters that are weak, stupid or worse) Seriously? Jealousy of something much?

Gee, I figure if I were a Mage with Mind 2 I would just misdirect those ignorant assholes easily. Why use crude methods like Psychic Domination in public when you can in private given it's an available option at Mind 2? Or I guess I'm just ignorant and stupid correct? It's covert so at least Dissonance isn't a factor unless I get bored and start playing with you or straight up you and your group of ignorant hunters being driven insane by my obvious magic.  Remember power corrupts and ultimate power corrupts ultimately. Thing is most magic is covert not obvious. Coincidental/Vulgar isn't a thing anymore unless said mage decides being obvious like some DnD wizard or straight up using a Jedi/Psi sword in Times Square is the smart move.....

What you are describing is Armageddon/Witchcraft/Blade/Underworld not WoD or CRoD. The former allows for your scenario but those supernatural types fight back on even terms at worst and should mean what's good for the gander is good for the goose, fair is fair when Gehenna comes calling.

WoD games are zero to hero as well. It's just how zero is defined versus hero. High XP WoD PCs and wipe the floor with newb PCs. Gamma World 1e, CoC and Traveller are among the very few RPGs which aren't zero to hero.

It would be an interesting WoD game to play monsters hunted by a US gov't crusade. It's got a bit of an X-men feel.

Quote from: Marleycat;947176You seem to have a real issue with players and their characters having actual power and intelligence. You seem to dig being an ignorant boring zero type that dies for no particular reason that makes a damn bit of sense. I know this because I have had you as a DM and it was boring and frustrating no matter what I tried to do which was very little given you de facto eliminated most of any possible interesting concept right from the start. So yeah CoC is interesting for a one off type of game but as a campaign not even.

(...)

What you are describing is Armageddon/Witchcraft/Blade/Underworld not WoD or CRoD. The former allows for your scenario but those supernatural types fight back on even terms at worst and should mean what's good for the gander is good for the goose, fair is fair when Gehenna comes calling.

Waah, waah, he took my precious game and shat all over it.

Your milkshake, Marleycat, we drink it. We drink it up.

Quote from: Marleycat;947176You seem to have a real issue with players and their characters having actual power and intelligence. You seem to dig being an ignorant boring zero type that dies for no particular reason that makes a damn bit of sense. I know this because I have had you as a DM and it was boring and frustrating no matter what I tried to do which was very little given you de facto eliminated most of any possible interesting concept right from the start. So yeah CoC is interesting for a one off type of game but as a campaign not even.

I play In Nomine Steve Jackson Games, dear. If you think WoD is filled with crazy, imagine every single beginner celestial PC starting with "I go celestial, I ignore all your corporeal attacks, including your nuclear bombs... plural." You better bring intelligence to the table, because like KULT, death is only the beginning -- and you should've spent points on spare vessels.

Mages believe they change reality until paradox backlashes. Angels and demons are the foundations of that reality and their enforcing backlash, and human souls are how they count stakes of their in-house spat. Yes, as the fandom jokes about a low level PC possessing your underwear and burning your vessel to goo undodgeably with song of acid, "you can't dodge your underwear!" I have had to deal with very high "magic," high power play with intelligence otherwise an In Nomine campaign completely runs away from you.

I've seen high power play, and I've seen high creative play, and those concepts are not synonymous! Most high power I've seen is boring, real boring. People are often more sledgehammer than subtle.

So what issue did you have in my game? I ran Basic 5e RAW. I had setting demographics. I wouldn't let you teleport distance so you can always be together as a team where the action is. Yet I also allow you to split up to find your own side adventures (which others often did!). And I reminded you that I don't run 0th level NPCs. (I will admit the graveyard puzzle did fall flat... secret password doors are often hard to pull off.)

Quote from: Marleycat;947176Yeah, you guessed it right that I think Snake Cult's premise is boring really boring. As are any street level games or zeroes to hero journey crap stories. I prefer being somebody that matters like Harry Dresden or Buffy or the women from Charmed or even Angel or the guys from Supernatural.

It's a copout to be horrified when you can't do a damn thing against it. Real horror is when you can and understand there will be a price no matter how many precautions you try to take.

Vampires are bad people because they are serial killers with political and social power. Werewolves are bad because they are hunters of intelligent beings not mere animals. While being half human themselves.

Mages are bad because they have ultimate power and ultimate power corrupts fully. Obviously you have no clue about this and think it's you against the players and your precious story/vision as this very post  that I quoted proves beyond a shadow of doubt. You don't even try to hide your contempt of characters with competency. Hordes of ignorant hunters against special snowflakes?(characters that are weak, stupid or worse) Seriously? Jealousy of something much?

Gee, I figure if I were a Mage with Mind 2 I would just misdirect those ignorant assholes easily. Why use crude methods like Psychic Domination in public when you can in private given it's an available option at Mind 2? Or I guess I'm just ignorant and stupid correct? It's covert so at least Dissonance isn't a factor unless I get bored and start playing with you or straight up you and your group of ignorant hunters being driven insane by my obvious magic.  Remember power corrupts and ultimate power corrupts ultimately. Thing is most magic is covert not obvious. Coincidental/Vulgar isn't a thing anymore unless said mage decides being obvious like some DnD wizard or straight up using a Jedi/Psi sword in Times Square is the smart move.....

What you are describing is Armageddon/Witchcraft/Blade/Underworld not WoD or CRoD. The former allows for your scenario but those supernatural types fight back on even terms at worst and should mean what's good for the gander is good for the goose, fair is fair when Gehenna comes calling.

You obviously have not the foggiest of what I have seen or played, or even an effort to understand my point of view, even though we have been talking on this forum for years. I am perfectly fine with oWoD as is (nWoD holds zero interest for me, except CtL). AND my first post to this topic was that I LIKE the personal horror element to WoD, otherwise it's just another Supers! system to me. I would kill for some subtle, intelligent play with personal horror in WoD -- but it's like finding hen's teeth. Most tables are not like that, they are cluttered with overwrought PCs and blunt trauma melodrama (or just blunt trauma).

I do (and did) run high power play, just not WoD (because the system really cannot handle it at higher dots, and neither can most of the players, especially if there's any fresh blood). Most of it was not good at all; predominantly eye rolling, cringey nonsense with all the subtlety and foreplay of a jackhammer. I don't bother continuing playing so with most games because I don't always get a chance to run veteran RPG players who are intimately familiar with the system. I'm right now running CtD 1e for gawds sake, with the cantrip cards 'n shit (and, my, is that a fucked up splat with some grotesque powers!).

I run zero to hero D&D campaigns to suss out what I'm working with as players. I run them for fun, to kick back and enjoy a player and setting mature together. They are relaxing affairs to study what works & what does not.

And for mindless fun, Robotron Hunter WoD sounds like a blast! (The WW combat will suck up too much time, but, alas... the social/investigation hunt should be real good, tho.) And it puts to use all that oWoD chargen mini-game expertise we've all accumulated over the years. It's like building grand jell-o salad mold to throw at the ravening tupperware party hordes!

You think you know why I like something, but you only see what you want to see. You obsess over your gishes way too much and get defensive. Stop that disservice.

Wow, who ever said WOD was for wankers?

Quote from: Marleycat;947176Yeah, you guessed it right that I think Snake Cult's premise is boring really boring. As are any street level games or zeroes to hero journey crap stories. I prefer being somebody that matters like Harry Dresden or Buffy or the women from Charmed or even Angel or the guys from Supernatural.

Just for contrast, what did you think of  Chris24601's ideas a few posts above Snake Cult's? They fly in the face of Doc Sammy's parameters (tone down the personal horror), but they do allow powerful PCs facing appropriate threats (or rather consequences I suppose).

Quote from: san dee jota;947009*)  Werewolf - It's over.  Gaia is dead, she just hasn't been buried yet.  The Wyrm is taking its time, resting a bit, because Global Warming, population explosion, and mass extinctions are all unstoppable now.  And here you are stuck with your impotent rage.  And the Tribes -still- jockey for power and relevance, because that's all they know how to do.  And with the Umbra getting webbed off by the Weaver, you're stuck here with them.  So go home, try not to hit your spouse and kids (you love them, but you get -soooo- mad), take out your frustrations on that Nexus Crawler across town (it's almost like an affair now... for both of you), and don't think too much about how your life has lost all meaning.

No, no, no. Gaia is alive, and because of it everything is dying, because Mother Nature is a Bitch and Evolution don't play favorites. The Triad bullshit is only the Garou trying to rationalize about be the next thing going to the same place as the Dodos, because they are an evolution dead end.