Quote from: Pat on October 28, 2021, 04:50:39 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 28, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
This is also why an amazing amount of RPG-adapted magical "traditions" will include spells that can reproduce the effects of modern artillery and medicine, despite the historically-attributed powers of any culture's traditions having nothing like that: the "flavour" of a magic system is always going to take a back seat to what actually can and can't be done with it, in terms of accomplishing players' in-game goals (which are almost always to win fights and gain treasure, however those are defined).

That reminds me of another approach: Get rid of all the artillery magic.

There are certainly examples of powerful magic in myth and legend, like that used by Talesin or Atlantes. But it's not point and shoot explosions. Most magic should be more subtle, and really powerful or overt effects should take longer.

From a game standpoint, the basic problem with wizard is they're too good at everything. They have the greatest offensive power, often by an absurd magnitude (10d6 automatic damage in a 40' area beats 1d8 against a single opponent, even without considering the additional indignity of a to hit roll). But they're also the jacks-of-all trades, able to do almost anything conceivable if they have the right spell. This utility far surpasses the far more limited and grounded by realism limits of things like thief skills. The only downside of mages is degree of fragility (which can be compensated for with magic), and limited uses (spells known or spell slots). Both of which aren't really limits on the wizards, but limits on the party (the other party members serve as meat shields and the whole party retreats once the magic-user is running low on spells).

It's a terrible design, though it's so deeply ingrained that trying to change it is going to be like pulling teeth. But if you're up for it, an alternate approach is to turn wizards from combat masters into a different type of utility class. They're the wise men and wise women, able to do subtle things. They can perform cures and exorcisms, influence people, speak prophecy. They're skilled, and know and can deduce things, and point to solutions. If given time, they can perform greater works, like bridges of quasisubstance, or pits of miasma. But they can't do much once steel is drawn, and mostly act in a supporting role in combat, with minor tweaks and tricks. They have to be played smart with forethought, instead of blasting. This matches a lot of fiction, where wizards become a lot less effective when the swords come out.

Or aim for a happy medium, where the Wizard has some magic offensive capabilities, isn't as fragile and can use some weapons (as it would if it existed and wasn't Dr Fate). Nerf it to a point, make greater effects harder/longer to cast but not so much that no one would want to play it.

In the AD&D2e campaign I'm playing our Elf used Phantasmal Force to project a huge Grim Reaper and some enemies died from sheer terror.

In the session before last he used the same spell (after using his one fireball) to make a fireball, and the enemy either ran shitting them,selves or died from the terror and certainty they would die from it.

It's basically an illusion, but you can do so much with it if you're creative enough and do think outside the box.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 28, 2021, 05:00:05 PM

Quote from: Pat on October 28, 2021, 04:50:39 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 28, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
This is also why an amazing amount of RPG-adapted magical "traditions" will include spells that can reproduce the effects of modern artillery and medicine, despite the historically-attributed powers of any culture's traditions having nothing like that: the "flavour" of a magic system is always going to take a back seat to what actually can and can't be done with it, in terms of accomplishing players' in-game goals (which are almost always to win fights and gain treasure, however those are defined).

That reminds me of another approach: Get rid of all the artillery magic.

There are certainly examples of powerful magic in myth and legend, like that used by Talesin or Atlantes. But it's not point and shoot explosions. Most magic should be more subtle, and really powerful or overt effects should take longer.

From a game standpoint, the basic problem with wizard is they're too good at everything. They have the greatest offensive power, often by an absurd magnitude (10d6 automatic damage in a 40' area beats 1d8 against a single opponent, even without considering the additional indignity of a to hit roll). But they're also the jacks-of-all trades, able to do almost anything conceivable if they have the right spell. This utility far surpasses the far more limited and grounded by realism limits of things like thief skills. The only downside of mages is degree of fragility (which can be compensated for with magic), and limited uses (spells known or spell slots). Both of which aren't really limits on the wizards, but limits on the party (the other party members serve as meat shields and the whole party retreats once the magic-user is running low on spells).

It's a terrible design, though it's so deeply ingrained that trying to change it is going to be like pulling teeth. But if you're up for it, an alternate approach is to turn wizards from combat masters into a different type of utility class. They're the wise men and wise women, able to do subtle things. They can perform cures and exorcisms, influence people, speak prophecy. They're skilled, and know and can deduce things, and point to solutions. If given time, they can perform greater works, like bridges of quasisubstance, or pits of miasma. But they can't do much once steel is drawn, and mostly act in a supporting role in combat, with minor tweaks and tricks. They have to be played smart with forethought, instead of blasting. This matches a lot of fiction, where wizards become a lot less effective when the swords come out.

Or aim for a happy medium, where the Wizard has some magic offensive capabilities, isn't as fragile and can use some weapons (as it would if it existed and wasn't Dr Fate). Nerf it to a point, make greater effects harder/longer to cast but not so much that no one would want to play it.

In the AD&D2e campaign I'm playing our Elf used Phantasmal Force to project a huge Grim Reaper and some enemies died from sheer terror.

In the session before last he used the same spell (after using his one fireball) to make a fireball, and the enemy either ran shitting them,selves or died from the terror and certainty they would die from it.

It's basically an illusion, but you can do so much with it if you're creative enough and do think outside the box.

So.... 4e?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 28, 2021, 05:00:05 PM
It's basically an illusion, but you can do so much with it if you're creative enough and do think outside the box.

Agreed. The difficulty with systems that expect the player to be creative and "think outside the box" is that in this case the "box" of the game is the rules, and once license is granted for (effectively) players to make up one way to shortcut past some rules, it is very difficult to keep this under control and prevent the players shortcutting past them all.

I've quoted Brandon Sanderson's observation before that in any magic system, it's usually far more interesting, in terms of creating challenges, to be very specific about what magicians can't do; this matches very neatly with the suggestions made above that DMs should be much more strict than usual about what spells are actually available to learn.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 28, 2021, 05:51:00 PM
I've quoted Brandon Sanderson's observation before that in any magic system, it's usually far more interesting, in terms of creating challenges, to be very specific about what magicians can't do; this matches very neatly with the suggestions made above that DMs should be much more strict than usual about what spells are actually available to learn.

One interesting exercise I've done is go through the spell list, and note the key new abilities that are gained at each new spell level. For instance, area damage effects appear at 3rd level, and long distance instant transportation at 5th level. Don't worry about the spells or the upgrades, just the new powers that emerge.

Then shift them around. Who says invisibility is a 2nd level spell? That's just a convention. What if it's a 4th or 5th level spell? What if area effect blast spells don't appear until 6th level? What if turning into a dog or a cow is 2nd level? This is rebalancing the fundamental assumptions of the game, and will lead to a very different feel and focus.

A stronger version is to go through the list and say no that's not possible. What if raise dead is impossible without direct divine intervention? What if there are no free teleports, you can only move instantly between pre-established gates? What if mind control and other compulsions don't work without consent, or for a softer ban, what if it's considered evil?

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 28, 2021, 05:51:00 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 28, 2021, 05:00:05 PM
It's basically an illusion, but you can do so much with it if you're creative enough and do think outside the box.

Agreed. The difficulty with systems that expect the player to be creative and "think outside the box" is that in this case the "box" of the game is the rules, and once license is granted for (effectively) players to make up one way to shortcut past some rules, it is very difficult to keep this under control and prevent the players shortcutting past them all.

I've quoted Brandon Sanderson's observation before that in any magic system, it's usually far more interesting, in terms of creating challenges, to be very specific about what magicians can't do; this matches very neatly with the suggestions made above that DMs should be much more strict than usual about what spells are actually available to learn.

You won't find me arguing against the GM putting (or removing) restrictions on their table.

But before that, if you're making a game, YOU should put some yourself,in order for the GM to get a feel about what you're aiming at, after that whatever the GM rules overrides any and all design decisions made by the developers.

Quote from: Pat on October 28, 2021, 06:01:04 PMWho says invisibility is a 2nd level spell? That's just a convention. What if it's a 4th or 5th level spell? What if area effect blast spells don't appear until 6th level? What if turning into a dog or a cow is 2nd level? This is rebalancing the fundamental assumptions of the game, and will lead to a very different feel and focus.

That's a really good idea. I have to admit that I always thought the spell "Mind Blank" ought to be much lower level, or at least have a lower-level version that lets mind-readers and mind-shielders go more directly head-to-head at reasonable starting levels.

QuoteWhat if raise dead is impossible without direct divine intervention? What if there are no free teleports, you can only move instantly between pre-established gates? What if mind control and other compulsions don't work without consent, or for a softer ban, what if it's considered evil?

Katherine Kurtz's Deryni novels showcase the effects of pre-determined teleportation locations (called Transfer Portals), as a good reference for that suggestion. For slightly less of a harsh limit, one could rule that mind-control effects are only evil if applied to beings of one's own kind, or to beings with the free will to change their own alignment.

Quote from: Pat on October 28, 2021, 06:01:04 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 28, 2021, 05:51:00 PM
I've quoted Brandon Sanderson's observation before that in any magic system, it's usually far more interesting, in terms of creating challenges, to be very specific about what magicians can't do; this matches very neatly with the suggestions made above that DMs should be much more strict than usual about what spells are actually available to learn.

One interesting exercise I've done is go through the spell list, and note the key new abilities that are gained at each new spell level. For instance, area damage effects appear at 3rd level, and long distance instant transportation at 5th level. Don't worry about the spells or the upgrades, just the new powers that emerge.

Then shift them around. Who says invisibility is a 2nd level spell? That's just a convention. What if it's a 4th or 5th level spell? What if area effect blast spells don't appear until 6th level? What if turning into a dog or a cow is 2nd level? This is rebalancing the fundamental assumptions of the game, and will lead to a very different feel and focus.

A stronger version is to go through the list and say no that's not possible. What if raise dead is impossible without direct divine intervention? What if there are no free teleports, you can only move instantly between pre-established gates? What if mind control and other compulsions don't work without consent, or for a softer ban, what if it's considered evil?

Who says improvements have to be tied to a level? What if you tie them to the inherent and increasing control of arcane energies by the Wizard? What if spells consume your energy?  What if Improved/greater anything doesn't need to be learned but the caster has to have the power to do so?

So your caster knows how to control & create fire. At first he only can do Burning Hands because he lacks the control/power to do anything else. As he levels up he acrues more power/control and is able to create a fireball, then a flaming sphere, and the range/area of effect are also tied to the power of the caster, costing him more power to increase the range/area.

Rise dead or resurrection? Two different "spells" IMHO, the first doesn't (or shouldn't) bring anything back to life but creates a mockery of life, think Pet Cemmetary. The second is a miracle and requires divine intervention. The first should also be taboo for most cultures.

You might remember I'm also trying to make (for a different game) white/grey/black magic, mind control should be at least grey if used for good, and it might be considered always evil by some cultures. Although in that game the division isn't cultural but cosmological.

QuoteNot giving my money to racists.

I said: USE it. EXPLOIT. TAKE ADVANTAGE. COLONIZE.

QuoteVery different to postulate a world where you adventure well before the decay of the Mayan Empire, which happened before the arrival of the spaniards, than to postulate europeans don't exist.

While C&C will be woke mess for variety of reasons, that one argument from this site I really dislike. Like if you want retrofuturistic Injun spellpunk - you need to get rid of wypipo, at least in terms of transoceanic travel. Otherwise whole concept of independent Injun civilisation shall inevitable collapse, because they had no chance with Europeans (even if you'd give them better tech - smallpox would still kill them). Dropping Tunguska 5.0 and then just leaving whole issue Terra Incognita is probably one of least offensive concepts possible. If I was Apache or Tupi or Cree I'd not be so merciful, I'd make Eurasia main place of impact, and Eurasians turned into DEMON ZOMBIES and main antagonists (Like certain Polish fantasy writer did in transdimensional fantasy series of his called Last Commonwealth - war of good "elves" and evil "barlogs" reached Earth through 7th dimension - and while elves took over Poland, the Germans and Russians were fully assimilated by HELL ITSELF. It was fun. I have no regrets.)

QuoteWhere do I say spell X was in classic D&D therefore it's European?

It's what you find in the pseudo European setting of vanilla D&D, therefore it's something most people associate with said vanilla setting.

IF Magic is real it makes it a very important part of the setting's flavor.

I'd say most crucial thing is - social role of wizard, more than specific powers. In most kitchen sinkey of sinks - Faerun you have just plain boring wizard - alas it works quite different among hermetic like wizards of Sword Coasts, tyrannical magocracy in Thay, flying merchants of Halrua... still all achieved by on class. Same with fighter I guess.

QuoteYeah, in my Maya game Wizards/Priests do have access to the same weapons as the Warrior, they just aren't as good at using them with the exeption of the sling since that was the most widely used way of hunting.

In Maya mythology the Wizard is a Priest

Well if their powers are linked and dependent of divine, of some forms theurgy that makes limiting spells very easy - like on worldbuilding level.

Not really sure if this is what you're looking for or not, but in 2nd Edition's "Dragon Kings" supplement for Dark Sun, there was a table devoted to adding sensory effects to wizardly magic that I really really loved.

How it worked is that every Arcane Spellcaster would have some somatic effects attached to their spells, chosen by the player or the GM. There were auditory, visual, tactile, olfactory and gustatory elements, as well as "additional effects" (something that didn't really fit in the others, like a static cling or scaring small animals) and "Grand Effects" (something big like an earthquake or fusing all the sand around you into glass). Whether a spell would have effects or not was based on level, and they were split into 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 and 10th (called "Psionic Enchantment for the purposes of Dark Sun, since you needed to be a 20th Level psionicist in order to properly use 10th level magic).

There were plenty of surrounding rules, like saying that if you learned a spell from another wizard you copied their effects. You could also alter the appearance of a spell to an extent, like an emerald fireball or a blood red lightning bolt. The caveat being if the spell wasn't unrecognizable.

My suggestion using this system works as follows. Auditory effects would be something like the sound of tribal drums or the splashing of water. Visual effects might be the air rippling like water. Maybe "Lightning Bolt" takes the form of a serpentine god made of lightning. Grand Effects might include a visual of a tribal ceremony or the warmth of the sun felt on everyone. Maybe Blade Barrier is a wall of obsidian blades (I don't think it's a Wizard Spell but it could still work for this).

You could extend this concept on a cultural level to Mayan wizards.

I gave the players the Rules Cyclopedia spells and I'm always willing to adjust them if the group agrees the change works without being broken. If I'm running a point-buy spell system, players can design their own spells as long as they again aren't broken/overpowered.

With FATE, there was a lot of FLAVOR because the system is more narrative. D&D spells carry gestures, words and material components which is its own flavor. The issue is few D/GMs require Magic-users to describe HOW they are casting spells at a level that demands all the components. GMs allow casters to just "cast" like a video game. The failure isn't the rules it's the lazy D/GM.

If you force casters to describe HOW they cast spells it creates a level of verisimilitude within the game rules that actually means something. 

QuoteIf you force casters to describe HOW they cast spells it creates a level of verisimilitude within the game rules that actually means something.

From my experience it works well just first or second time when given spell is casted. Afterwards its chore for players and unnecessary repetition.

Quote from: Wrath of God on October 29, 2021, 04:16:00 AM

QuoteIf you force casters to describe HOW they cast spells it creates a level of verisimilitude within the game rules that actually means something.

From my experience it works well just first or second time when given spell is casted. Afterwards its chore for players and unnecessary repetition.

I agree. It's rarely necessary to ask them how they attack with a weapon, and a spell is often just another type of weapon in D&D style fantasy games.

In my current game, there are five types of magic, each coming from a different real life and/or fictional setting.  I feel this gives the systems a degree of depth and verisimilitude without having to go to all the trouble to create a background myself.  The system strongly rewards specializing in one style, so while generalists exist, they are greatly outshone by specialists.

Shamans use spirit magic, which is based on Siberian shamanism, Miyazaki, Shinto, Tobo from the Black Company books, and a bit of Celtic mythology.

Elemental magic is based on The Last Airbender and D&D blasters, and is largely combat oriented.

Life magic comes from the Belgariad, The Black Company (yes, I'm a huge fan) and sundry other sources.

Psychics use sensory magic, based on modern paranormal beliefs, Katherine Kurtz's Adept books, and a bit of Jedi skills.

Negation magic is based on the White Rose, again from the Black Company.

While all of the styles use the same mechanics, I expect them to play very differently in practice.

I think to really work, such an effort has to be about effects and particular spells and flavor and mechanics.  Because what gives the system its feel is all of those things working together.  Which means of all the replies so far, I most agree with Shark, but others have touched on important elements too.

The bad news is that at the system design level you can't really get there on the cheap.  It's not as easy as changing the flavor of the spell or restricting spell lists or shifting a few spells up or down in level.  All that helps, but it isn't sufficient.  (It might, of course, work just fine for a particular campaign.)  The good news is that starting from scratch isn't that hard, because you can still use what's there as ideas.  You just have to look at every single spell with a critical eye and no assumptions.

TL;DR version of the rest:  In a new design, keep the base magic system very limited and incomplete in ways appropriate to that design and then write spells to fit that design, leaving room for useful system growth.

What I did for my game:

- Assumed that every spell will be rewritten.  (Some show their roots clearly; some are new; most are tweaked.)

- Magic designed in the context of the system--needs to be both limited and mix and match with classes. Knew I didn't want it to be pure effects based, but wanted a thread of such design running through the spell options.  (You might say that it is effects based only at the setting level, not the player level.)  Magic is limited by type, not by character class, for the simple reason that a special list for every class is too much work.  (Or put another way, if "paladin" gets a subset of "cleric" spells, that isn't enough to make it distinct.  If it isn't distinct, it isn't in.)

- Made a list of the different kinds of magic that I thought the game could reasonably support.  I had about 8 or 9 items on the list.  Some of the traditional specialties were straight out, such as "elementalist", which sits on a line that the design doesn't support.  These didn't even make the list.  Of the ones on the list, I had only 3-5 that I was willing right now to work out mechanics for. 

- I picked the mostly likely 3 and went with them as a starting place.  Holy magic is channeled from the gods.  It's hearkening back to the BEMCI/RC set, with very little direct damage effects.  However, the direct damage effects are of the flashy miracle types--such as like the classic D&D "flamestrike".  Spell weavers are about nature magic, spirits, with a dash of elemental lightning and fire.  They also cover some basic necromancy through the spirit angle.  Sorcerers are the classic arcanists, focused on wielding magic directly (not unlike later D&D "force" magic), charms, etc.

- The basic for each type is a very limited list of spells, which are cast using the standard limited mechanics.  The spells are skewed to be slow in gathering power compared to traditional D&D-style systems, skewing the system towards non-casters.  Most spells require at least 2 actions to cast in combat (more for more powerful spells) and don't have much direct combat utility until the caster has reached the low-middle power levels.  That is, the base magic is so limited that by itself it isn't terribly tactical most of the time, though clever play can certainly take advantage even tactically, and there are certainly strategic uses.  Think early D&D "hold portal".  The really useful analogs, like "invisibility" is deliberately gated into the higher power levels.  This limitation is a key element of the design.

- There are no crossover spells.  Zero, nada, zilch.  There are crossover effects.  All three types, for example, have a basic spell to provide some light, but those are three different spells with different pros/cons.  The low-level channeler can get the effects of a candle or makes an actual candle burn almost indefinitely, whereas the spell weaver produces a tiny flame that gives off light (and also works like a match to start a fire).  This gets away from the sterility that pure effects-based systems can be prone too (if not monitored carefully by the GM), in that the spell can be used based on what one would naturally expect from its description, not limited to the mechanical effect.

- All of that is by way of preparation to then be able to layer on top of the basic system additional abilities by magic type and by class (and a few other things).  For example, spell weavers imbue their personal equipment with a few spells of limited charges which they can then use to cast faster.  This reinforces the flavor of their basic magic, which already tends in that direction.  For example, spell weavers can't heal anyone directly.  They can magically alter a drinkable liquid to turn it into a somewhat limited duration minor healing potion.  This isn't as handy in a pinch as what a Holy caster do, nor as powerful, but it is an actual potion that anyone can use for the duration of the effect.  Meanwhile, the shaman class can transfer a few spells to a spirit companion, and then use the spirit to circumvent range and other restrictions, which has different implications for holy shamans, spell weaving shamans, and sorcerer shamans.

- Finally, of the 3 magic types I started with, I deliberately still kept them narrow and left gaps.  The design doesn't support everything, but I've left room for additional types.  For now, there are simply some things that magic doesn't do. 

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on October 29, 2021, 07:07:44 AM
I think to really work, such an effort has to be about effects and particular spells and flavor and mechanics.  Because what gives the system its feel is all of those things working together.  Which means of all the replies so far, I most agree with Shark, but others have touched on important elements too.

The bad news is that at the system design level you can't really get there on the cheap.  It's not as easy as changing the flavor of the spell or restricting spell lists or shifting a few spells up or down in level.  All that helps, but it isn't sufficient.  (It might, of course, work just fine for a particular campaign.)  The good news is that starting from scratch isn't that hard, because you can still use what's there as ideas.  You just have to look at every single spell with a critical eye and no assumptions.

TL;DR version of the rest:  In a new design, keep the base magic system very limited and incomplete in ways appropriate to that design and then write spells to fit that design, leaving room for useful system growth.

What I did for my game:

- Assumed that every spell will be rewritten.  (Some show their roots clearly; some are new; most are tweaked.)

- Magic designed in the context of the system--needs to be both limited and mix and match with classes. Knew I didn't want it to be pure effects based, but wanted a thread of such design running through the spell options.  (You might say that it is effects based only at the setting level, not the player level.)  Magic is limited by type, not by character class, for the simple reason that a special list for every class is too much work.  (Or put another way, if "paladin" gets a subset of "cleric" spells, that isn't enough to make it distinct.  If it isn't distinct, it isn't in.)

- Made a list of the different kinds of magic that I thought the game could reasonably support.  I had about 8 or 9 items on the list.  Some of the traditional specialties were straight out, such as "elementalist", which sits on a line that the design doesn't support.  These didn't even make the list.  Of the ones on the list, I had only 3-5 that I was willing right now to work out mechanics for. 

- I picked the mostly likely 3 and went with them as a starting place.  Holy magic is channeled from the gods.  It's hearkening back to the BEMCI/RC set, with very little direct damage effects.  However, the direct damage effects are of the flashy miracle types--such as like the classic D&D "flamestrike".  Spell weavers are about nature magic, spirits, with a dash of elemental lightning and fire.  They also cover some basic necromancy through the spirit angle.  Sorcerers are the classic arcanists, focused on wielding magic directly (not unlike later D&D "force" magic), charms, etc.

- The basic for each type is a very limited list of spells, which are cast using the standard limited mechanics.  The spells are skewed to be slow in gathering power compared to traditional D&D-style systems, skewing the system towards non-casters.  Most spells require at least 2 actions to cast in combat (more for more powerful spells) and don't have much direct combat utility until the caster has reached the low-middle power levels.  That is, the base magic is so limited that by itself it isn't terribly tactical most of the time, though clever play can certainly take advantage even tactically, and there are certainly strategic uses.  Think early D&D "hold portal".  The really useful analogs, like "invisibility" is deliberately gated into the higher power levels.  This limitation is a key element of the design.

- There are no crossover spells.  Zero, nada, zilch.  There are crossover effects.  All three types, for example, have a basic spell to provide some light, but those are three different spells with different pros/cons.  The low-level channeler can get the effects of a candle or makes an actual candle burn almost indefinitely, whereas the spell weaver produces a tiny flame that gives off light (and also works like a match to start a fire).  This gets away from the sterility that pure effects-based systems can be prone too (if not monitored carefully by the GM), in that the spell can be used based on what one would naturally expect from its description, not limited to the mechanical effect.

- All of that is by way of preparation to then be able to layer on top of the basic system additional abilities by magic type and by class (and a few other things).  For example, spell weavers imbue their personal equipment with a few spells of limited charges which they can then use to cast faster.  This reinforces the flavor of their basic magic, which already tends in that direction.  For example, spell weavers can't heal anyone directly.  They can magically alter a drinkable liquid to turn it into a somewhat limited duration minor healing potion.  This isn't as handy in a pinch as what a Holy caster do, nor as powerful, but it is an actual potion that anyone can use for the duration of the effect.  Meanwhile, the shaman class can transfer a few spells to a spirit companion, and then use the spirit to circumvent range and other restrictions, which has different implications for holy shamans, spell weaving shamans, and sorcerer shamans.

- Finally, of the 3 magic types I started with, I deliberately still kept them narrow and left gaps.  The design doesn't support everything, but I've left room for additional types.  For now, there are simply some things that magic doesn't do.

Agreed, there can be no ovewrlap of spells, it must be done from the ground up, if possible changing/modifying the mechanics.

Schools is a common theme (I saw your coment Mishihari), not sure it can be implemented on every game/setting, will need to think about it.

After all the Maya game isn't aiming for "Medieval Authentic {or the equivalent for the Maya centuries before the Spaniards came to the continent}", it's fantasy, using what little we know about my ancestors to flavor it and make it not vanilla fantasy. I might not even have them on Earth, after all we don't know why, how or exactly when their empire crumbled. Maybe they developed space travel and went to another planet to escape the savages from the north?

Maybe they were always aliens stranded here and managed to fix their ships and returned to their planet of origin?

It's too early to know exactly where I'll go. But, the magic needs to be done, because I plan on using the exact same system (not the spells mind you) on my other games.