What is the difference between the magic systems of Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon? I believe Lion and Dragon is supposed to be more based on real life occultism, but wasn't Dark Albion already trying to do that? I realise I am a little late to the party, but I am checking out these magic systems to spice up a fantasy setting with something occult. I don't own these games (yet), but I am sucker for occultism so it's only a matter of time till I will.
I own Lion & Dragon, but it would be better to let Pundit answer your questions directly. I don't have Dark Albion to compare to, but I love that book cover. I'm sure he will chime in. It's a dark and gritty take on D&D, imho.
I have the DA Cults of Chaos book and L&D, but not the DA core book. Based on Cults of Chaos I believe the magic in DA is very close if not the identical to L&D.
Lion and Dragon is a generic setting more or less based on medieval Western Europe, but is obviously written with DA in mind as a possible setting, and many examples reference DA. I think the magic system in L&D is one of the highlights of the game. I don't have the occult knowledge to say whether or not it is historically accurate magic for the period, but it certainly feels right for what I imagine the "real" medieval magic of witches and alchemists etc would resemble.
Pundit has done several add ons to the magic system in his RPG Pundit series which are worth getting if you like the magic in the game.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;1075570What is the difference between the magic systems of Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon? I believe Lion and Dragon is supposed to be more based on real life occultism, but wasn't Dark Albion already trying to do that? I realise I am a little late to the party, but I am checking out these magic systems to spice up a fantasy setting with something occult. I don't own these games (yet), but I am sucker for occultism so it's only a matter of time till I will.
Dark Albion magic
http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2017/08/classic-rant-how-does-dark-albion.html
Lion and Dragon magic
http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2017/12/more-info-on-lion-dragon.html
Quote from: jan paparazzi;1075570What is the difference between the magic systems of Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon? I believe Lion and Dragon is supposed to be more based on real life occultism, but wasn't Dark Albion already trying to do that? I realise I am a little late to the party, but I am checking out these magic systems to spice up a fantasy setting with something occult. I don't own these games (yet), but I am sucker for occultism so it's only a matter of time till I will.
Thanks for the question!
Dark Albion isn't a complete RPG. It's a setting book with guidelines for modifying your OSR/D&D rule-set to fit the setting.
The magic section of Dark Albion assumes you'll still be using the "Vancian magic system". To modify this, it recommends a reduced spell list that removes some of the most flashy/explosive sort of spells, as well as spells like raise dead, making it more low-magic and gritty. On top of that, it adds rules for Summoning, to invoke and bind demons in the medieval style.
Lion & Dragon, on the other hand, is a complete OSR rule-set. You could say it's the rule-set made for Dark Albion, as its the rules that evolved out of my original Dark Albion campaign, but you can also use L&D in other settings (in any setting you want to be medieval-authentic).
It's magic system is NOT Vancian. There's none of the regular D&D spells in it. Wizards and clerics don't memorize spells per day. Clerics perform miracles, and high-level clerics can call for direct divine intervention.
Magisters (wizards) learn a number of different 'magical techniques', which are sets of related rituals that do different things: astrology, summoning, healings, battle magic, talismans, and alchemy. Of these, only Summoning (with slight modifications) was in Dark Albion. The rest are totally new. All of these have rituals that are directly taken or strongly inspired by rituals found in real medieval grimoires.
Both Clerical Miracles and Magister rituals are done by passing a roll (the prayer check or the magic check) against varying DCs.
Clerical magic is much less varied, but much more direct; you pray, you make the check, and the miracle happens.
Magister spells, with very few exceptions, are complex rituals that require material components and time, meaning that wizards need to prepare beforehand for their magic to be effective, for the most part.
In my RPGPundit Presents (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/32/Precis-Intermedia/subcategory/126_28809/RPGPundit-Presents) series, I've added a significant number of new magical rituals and techniques to expand on the material in L&D itself, taking more stuff from medieval grimoires and folklore (plus an entire sourcebook expanding the usefulness of medieval astrology). Also, this week (probably tomorrow) the newest issue of RPGPundit Presents will be The Cult of the Saints, which will include rules for both clerics and non-clerics to venerate and invoke patron saints for minor or major intervention.
The magic items in L&D are also unique and are all based on either 'historical' magic items from medieval accounts or legends or concepts of how medieval people thought magical objects worked.
I hope that answers your question! I'll note too, that it is VERY easy to just transport some or all of these magical techniques, rituals, or items into your own OSR game or campaign, to add a touch of medieval-authenticity, even if you don't want to give up on using the traditional Vancian magic system. It can serve as additional Ritual Magic that spellcasters can access.
Yep, I get it. Vancian magic is just the regular spellslinging we are used to from a bunch of different sources. I really like ritual magic though. For players to use and for sorcerors and cultist to use with a corrupting effect most of the times. Lion & Dragon's magic system sounds right up my alley.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;1075848Yep, I get it. Vancian magic is just the regular spellslinging we are used to from a bunch of different sources. I really like ritual magic though. For players to use and for sorcerors and cultist to use with a corrupting effect most of the times. Lion & Dragon's magic system sounds right up my alley.
I'm sure it would be. It's also a truly medieval-authentic system, because the rituals are all borrowed/modified directly from medieval sources.