In my OD&D, magic shoppes exist in cities where you can find alchemists who make potions and mages who scribe scrolls. They charge top dollar because they can, and everything is custom order. There are always nobles looking for magic items to increase their power and they will pay heftily in coin. Among their own, they may even trade magic items.

As for creating magic items, there are some high level mages would might take on the task, but making an item permanent reduces their CON by 1 so you can bet you're going to pay dearly for that. In trade for your newly minted magic, you can bet you'll be questing for a litany of items that mage desires.

I don't mind magic shoppes for potions and scrolls since those are commonly found, thus somebody must be making them regularly. Also, handing out disposable magic is fun and lessens the desire to hand out more powerful items.  

BTW, in my OD&D, items will become imbued with magic on their own sometimes. AKA, the sword that slays a magical beast could take on that monster's essence and become a +1 weapon. The shield of a great hero could pass on generations, becoming magical as well. Thus, not all magic items must be created by mages.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1141894BTW, in my OD&D, items will become imbued with magic on their own sometimes. AKA, the sword that slays a magical beast could take on that monster's essence and become a +1 weapon. The shield of a great hero could pass on generations, becoming magical as well. Thus, not all magic items must be created by mages.

Shades of Earthdawn in that. It's very cool how that game handles its magic items... a lot of magic items are formed from experiences, and require knowledge of those experiences to fully use them.

In OD&D, a +1 magic sword is no joke - especially if they give off light (aka, a perma torch), and that +1 damage means more when you have monsters with D6 HP per HD. Also, with lower ACs, that 5% boost to hit shows itself more often. Top that with low STR bonuses (+3 at 18 if using B/X scores, +1 at 15+ if using S&W:WB scores), that +1 becomes even more appealing.

It might not become PC's weapon forever, but it will be cherished for several levels. And once they get their +2 sword, that +1 weapon will be a tremendous bartering tool. Want to make an angry lord your friend? Gift him a blade that can harm what normal steel cannot.

Quote from: Simlasa;1141910Shades of Earthdawn in that.

Earthdawn had lots of great ideas. I didn't enjoy the system, but I'd play it just for their cool take on magic and magic items.

Quote from: estar;1141853I been allowing magic items purchases ever since I stared using the City State of the Invincible Overlord in 1981 via the Sorceror's Supply House on Regal Street.

I'd let PCs go to a magic vendor emporium if such exists (there is one in Quodeth in Primeval Thule, Xandor Jho's House of Curiousities), but it's played out in-game with a small number of items available at best. Purchasing an item is a major event that can have ramifications in the future, eg a PC buying a dwarf-craft steel sword led to an alliance between Quodeth & the dwarf city of Kal-Zinan.

In my high magic 5e games I just give players a list of ca 20 minor items they can buy, but in lower magic settings or seeking better stuff it gets played out in-game.

Quote from: Chris24601;1141874If magic weapons are as rare as some make them out to be (where they cannot be bought at any price) then a single Wight is a kingdom killer... they're immune to non-magical weapons, inflict level drain and turn anyone they kill into more wights that also are immune, drain levels and make more wights.

If there aren't enough magic weapons that each lord can afford at least a few you either need no wights in your world or your world is a zombie apocalypse with nearly unkillable undead dominating all but the few places fortunate enough to have some magic that can hold them at bay.

Or the Cleric uses Turn Undead.

Most undead are presented as being tied to a particular spot, and vulnerable to daylight, so you have to go in the wight barrow mounds to find wights. Of course the barrow mounds likely have interred magic weapons there too.

In my 1e/OSRIC FR campaign there is no routine trade in magic weapons, but that doesn't mean no one has one. Eg in my stat blocks for Damaran House Knights, a Duke's house knights will typically have several magic weapons among the senior knights, usually heirlooms.  No one routinely manufactures +1 swords, but over thousands of years of history a bunch have accumulated.

 Knight of Damara (House Cavalry):
Fighter-1 AC 2/3 (plate, shield) HP 10; Base THAC0 20. Heavy Barded Warhorse (battle) or Medium Unbarded Warhorse (patrol)
weapons: Lance (mounted only, 2d4+1/3d6), Longsword (d8/d12)
WP: (1) Lance (spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 19 dam 2d4+3/3d6+2; THAC0 17 & x2 damage during a Cavalry Charge.
(2) Longsword (spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 19 dam 1d8+2/1d12+2.

Knight Lieutenant: Fighter-3 AC 2/3 HP 22; Base THAC0 18
WP: (1) Lance (spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 17, THAC0 15 during Charge, dam 2d4+3/3d6+2; x2 during Cavalry Charge
(2) Longsword (x2 spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 15 dam 1d8+3/1d12+3
MI: 15% +1 longsword, 15% +1 shield

Knight Commander: Fighter-5 AC 2/3 HP 34; Base THAC0 16
WP: (1) Lance (x2 spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 13 dam 2d4+4/3d6+3; x2 during Cavalry Charge
(2) Longsword (x2 spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 13 dam 1d8+3/1d12+3
MI: 25% +1 longsword, 25% +1 shield; 15% 1 of (d6) (1-2) +2 longsword, (3-4) +2 shield, or  (5-6) +1 lance - probably the Lance That Pierced Ilmater's Side on the Cross... or so they say.

Battle Chaplain: Cleric-2 AC 2/3 HP 12 base THAC0 20 WIS 14. Unbarded Medium Warhorse.
THAC0 20 WP: Mace dam 1d6+1/1d6
Typical Spells: Cure Light Wounds x2, Light of Ilmater (Light), Command ("Kneel").
MI: 10% +1 mace, 10% +1 shield

Arcata's Ducal Guard

Knights (56+49 squires = 105):
1 Knight Commander  Ftr 5 (Commander Mykros)
6 Knights Lieutenant 5 Ftr 3; 1 Ftr 4 (Sir Palador)
7 Battle Chaplains 1 Clr 1; 5 Clr 2 (Aedina); 1 Clr 3
42 Knights 35 Ftr-1 (Renee, Susan); 7 Ftr 2
49 Squires 41 Ftr 0; 8 Ftr 1

Knight Lieutenant Palador deVries: Fighter-4 AC 2/3 HP 28; Base THAC0 17
WP: (1) Lance (x2 spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 14 dam 2d4+4/3d6+3; x2 during Cavalry Charge
(2) +1 Longsword (x2 spec) #ATT 3/2 THAC0 13 dam 1d8+4/1d12+4
ST 15 IN 11 WI 13 CO 13 DE 14 CH 12

PCs might kill Sir Palador and take his magic +1 sword, but attempting to sell it would be an adventure in itself. +1 swords don't show up on the open market; they may be bought by merchants and then sold, typically to Dukes and other wealthy, established persons. If a PC became a Duke and wanted to buy magic items, then yes they might sometimes have the opportunity to buy the kind of low-end stuff adventurers haul out of dungeons.  But I'd deal with that using a random events table, not Magic Walmart.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1141911It might not become PC's weapon forever, but it will be cherished for several levels. And once they get their +2 sword, that +1 weapon will be a tremendous bartering tool.

In old-school D&D (like the FR game I'm running currently) PCs don't just go around in a group of 4 PCs, there are typically half a dozen NPC henchmen & such along too. Giving your henchman a magic sword is a great way to keep his loyalty! Plus it improves your own survival prospects.

Quote from: Morblot;1141786I'm currently running Old-School Essentials and now that the player characters have come upon some money, they started wondering if maybe they could spend it to buy some magic items. I quickly improvised a place that sold a whopping three potions and one medallion for ridiculously high prices, but it got me thinking if any of you have come upon a more methodical solution to this.

So... Do you allow your PCs to buy magic items? If you do, how do you price them? Do you have magic item supermarkets where everything can be found or are traders of magic items few and far between? Do you only allow certain magic items to be bought, such as potions or scrolls? And -- perhaps most importantly for me, since I'm lazy -- do you have any readymade tables for this on hand I could steal?

I didn't read all the responses to your post, so my apologies for any repetitive answers!

Make a quest out of it!  It could be a mini-campaign in itself.  Magic items aren't sold in my campaign, other than the a few potions and scrolls here or there (and even sometimes there's a half-day wait on them while they get made) or a wand with a few charges left, it the party's lucky.  

But I have had a party seek out a creator of magic items place a request.  The, in turn, would get a "shopping list" of sorts that would provide them with a list of materials that they would need to construct the item in question.  Maybe it's a rare material here, a costly consumable or item there, or maybe a spell that the maker doesn't have that is needed for the enchantment that the party has to petition someone (maybe even a dragon or a rashasta!) for a copy.  The complexity and difficulty could vary depending on the power of the item.  I've had pretty good success on doing this in the past.

I usually go with the idea that demand >>> supply.  It's easy to find a buyer for your loot, but there's a tremendous amount of competition to buy magic.  Not only are PCs likely to get outbid by nobles and rich merchants, most people with magic items will sell to their friends and acquaintances (i.e. not PCs) and there may even be laws against selling magic to anyone but nobles. In most of my games, about the only reliable way to buy a magic item is to find a wizard who is willing to make it for you and commission  it.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1141876IF in your world (not in the DMG) there are "large swathes of monsters that PCs can't hit without a magic weapon" then it follow that either magic weapons are so common as to render any and all adventurers useless or that only the monsters remain.

This is kinda like the traveling discussion a while back, how common are those monsters? because if confronting a wight is really common then I would expect to find magic weapons in almost every household. Or mankind was erased from the world.

People have been refusing to accept that D&D was basically intentionally designed with vast internal inconsistencies from the get-go.

None of this bothers me.  The internal inconsistencies enforce a certain style of play.  Why are there not armies of unkillable wights?  Because I said so, and their characteristics consider what challenges the party first and the sense of how this widget works conceptually with another widget last.

All I care about is a set of possibles and constraints that challenges 4-6 players.  I'm not particularly concerned with how well that supports the ability to use the world as a fantasy platform as an object independent of play/action at the table.  I'm unabashedly gamist.

Quote from: EOTB;1141970People have been refusing to accept that D&D was basically intentionally designed with vast internal inconsistencies from the get-go.

None of this bothers me.  The internal inconsistencies enforce a certain style of play.  Why are there not armies of unkillable wights?  Because I said so, and their characteristics consider what challenges the party first and the sense of how this widget works conceptually with another widget last.

All I care about is a set of possibles and constraints that challenges 4-6 players.  I'm not particularly concerned with how well that supports the ability to use the world as a fantasy platform as an object independent of play/action at the table.  I'm unabashedly gamist.

Your argument here is basically that D&D was designed a certain way (which is debatable) therefore it ought to be that way, which is a type of naturalistic fallacy. You're basically giving us your opinion of what the game supposedly is or its original design intent as evidence that therefore it must or should (ought) to be played that way. And you're also backing it up with your own willingness to accept such concessions as evidence that therefore everyone else should too. All of this is fallacious thinking.

None of this really addresses the issues, it merely hand-waves them way as "this is the way things are and ought to be" and "I am willing to accept that".  But the issues are still there, and your willingness to work with them doesn't negate the fact that they might bother somebody else, get in the way of their play-style, or even have simple solutions that don't necessitate them submitting to your own play-style preferences simply on the basis that you believe that that is the way the game is and ought to be.

I was responding to the question framed in the op.  Which doesn't presume a problem but asks what we do or don't do.  And why.  

People who aren't the op noted this ignores their concerns, which I respond again to note that is accurate because I don't share those concerns.

Quote from: EOTB;1141970People have been refusing to accept that D&D was basically intentionally designed with vast internal inconsistencies from the get-go.

None of this bothers me.  The internal inconsistencies enforce a certain style of play.  Why are there not armies of unkillable wights?  Because I said so, and their characteristics consider what challenges the party first and the sense of how this widget works conceptually with another widget last.

All I care about is a set of possibles and constraints that challenges 4-6 players.  I'm not particularly concerned with how well that supports the ability to use the world as a fantasy platform as an object independent of play/action at the table.  I'm unabashedly gamist.

Fair enough.

I allow it as a Shopping Quest, akin to how AD&D suggested that if you absolutely must sell magic items do it like high end antiquities and/or contraband. Which means very powerful people going to war, secret elite estate auctions, or public gifting as diplomacy... or secret backroom deals & smuggling (with several fakes thrown in). That touches on all three pillars (explore, social, combat) as quest potential.

As a shop... only for minor one-shot or small number of charges utilities, and even then uncommon or rare. I don't lke how it cheapens the mystery.

As for what to do with that extra +1 sword, do as the DMG suggested: gift it to a henchman (or turn a favored hireling into a henchman)! You do run with hirelings & henchmen still, right?

Quote from: EOTB;1141981I was responding to the question framed in the op.  Which doesn't presume a problem but asks what we do or don't do.  And why.  

People who aren't the op noted this ignores their concerns, which I respond again to note that is accurate because I don't share those concerns.

OK

However you also make assertion about the design of D&D.

Quote from: EOTB;1141970People have been refusing to accept that D&D was basically intentionally designed with vast internal inconsistencies from the get-go.

None of this bothers me.  The internal inconsistencies enforce a certain style of play.

This is a statement about your understanding of how D&D is designed.

Quote from: EOTB;1141970All I care about is a set of possibles and constraints that challenges 4-6 players.  I'm not particularly concerned with how well that supports the ability to use the world as a fantasy platform as an object independent of play/action at the table.  I'm unabashedly gamist.

Again it fine that what you care about and that you enjoy your style of play. However that not an answer as to why you think D&D internal inconsistencies leads to a particular style of play.

Nor is the first paragraph I quoted is an answer to why you think D&D internal inconsistencies leads to a particular style of play.

My viewpoint is that classic D&D is pretty flexible and that it inconsistencies are an important elements of D&D as a fantasy campaign toolkit. Dial it one way you get the style of play you enjoy, dial it another way you get the style of play I enjoy. Magic Item trade is one of those dials. The fact that various classic edition had pricing like the AD&D 1e DMG just makes it easier for us who like to have magic item trade and it readily ignored for those who don't. That it as whole D&D is neutral as to whether there are magic item shops in a campaign or not.

Quote from: estar;1141992That it as whole D&D is neutral as to whether there are magic item shops in a campaign or not.

Rob, come now.  We were both present during the 1E phase of the hobby and read the same materials.  You know as well as I do that "magic shops" were quickly raised up in the periodicals and discussion areas of the day as something to be discouraged; that the inclusion of sale prices was not intended to turn the acquisition of magic items into a shopping trip for players; and that the acquisition of magic items through traditional adventuring was stated as the presumption in the writing.  All sorts of contrivances were provided for why a sales market existed but not a buy market.  I simply dispense with the contrivances and state plainly; pandering to the predicate was a mistake instead of cleanly stating it was for game play reasons alone.

This isn't year zero, and I shouldn't have to go look up citations for this.  I might understand if it was some 18 year-old looking at all of this for the first time, but with you I expect a little difference.