REH's books pretty much seemed to me to assume that it was taking place in the same universe as the Cthulhu mythos (which he also wrote extensively for).  So it would make sense that there were no 'real' gods.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;832275The People of the Black Circle were not really classified as human, the Master might have been at one point.  Thing is, most spell casters in S&S are subtle, very rarely able to cast multiple attack spells in a given fight.  Spells are slow affairs, and often these self-same sorcerers often have protection in the form of minions, an artefact or other means that have already been cast by the time Conan meets them.

There was a master, four beings bound to this plane by the master, and a bunch of apprentices.  In addition, the secondary (primary? original?) antagonist was also a sorcerer with numerous spells at his command (enough to defeat an entire village of the hillmen on his own).  Other than being a sorcerer, and extremely long lived, there doesn't seem to be any indication he is non-human.

The only non-humans in the bunch were the four beings bound to this plane.  The apprentices were definitely human.  They were also quite frail and had few spells at their disposal.

I just read this story two days ago, otherwise I probably wouldn't have remembered this, though.

Quote from: Bloodwolf;832948There was a master, four beings bound to this plane by the master, and a bunch of apprentices.  In addition, the secondary (primary? original?) antagonist was also a sorcerer with numerous spells at his command (enough to defeat an entire village of the hillmen on his own).  Other than being a sorcerer, and extremely long lived, there doesn't seem to be any indication he is non-human.

The only non-humans in the bunch were the four beings bound to this plane.  The apprentices were definitely human.  They were also quite frail and had few spells at their disposal.

I just read this story two days ago, otherwise I probably wouldn't have remembered this, though.

The first antagonist, who gets mulched by the human sorcerer was a Raksasha. They called him that several times.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;832951The first antagonist, who gets mulched by the human sorcerer was a Raksasha. They called him that several times.

Arrows of Indra does have a serious Sword & Sorcery feel to it when played right...

In the hyborian age campaign I would run, gods would primarily exist to be killed by PCs, or to eat PCs. Both works. Effectively there are two kinds of gods:
The first are monstrous entities that demand sacrifice (prefarably human, young and attractive) and which resides within or below a temple inhabited by a creepy cult; that temple of course also includes treasure.
The other kind of god is the self-proclaimed one, the charismatic cult leader whose delusions of grandeur has made him believe his own propaganda. This version is less likely to devour human sacrifices, but not less likely to demand them. Of course, this might also be a carreer choice for PCs, but generally speaking, deicide is more rewarding than apotheosis in this context.

All other gods are basically speculative; they might exist, they might not, and nobody is ever going to be prove or disprove their existence. Player characters can be as devout or as worldly as the player's like.

I found Pendragon worked well, both the original -- no system, magic being the gm's province -- and the later magic system. The latter involved long preparation (or long recovery, with hazard in delay), and auspicious times, places and materials. What could be accomplished was still up to the gm, rather than rigidly defined.

TSR's Conan game was similar but less detailed, and notably put a great onus on the player-magician to seek out spell formulas rather than being able to do much improvisation merely on the basis of general skills as in Pendragon. It did present examples of magic from the tales.

To me it seems appropriate that the emphasis should be on warrior-heroes like Conan, as it is in Howard's stories (and indeed most of modern heroic fantasy and its ancient/medieval progenitors).

I think the biggest argument against magic using PC's in a Hyborian campaign is a thematic one. In most of Howard's works Magicians are bad guys, and magic is an obstacle to be overcome.

Quote from: Arkansan;833432I think the biggest argument against magic using PC's in a Hyborian campaign is a thematic one. In most of Howard's works Magicians are bad guys, and magic is an obstacle to be overcome.

Doesn't this depend on seeing Conan as the good guy?

Quote from: RPGPundit;833768Doesn't this depend on seeing Conan as the good guy?

Seeing as he's written with as the main protagonist in most of the stories, and often seems like a pretty decent, if rough, kinda guy, I'd have to say, yes, most readers usually see him as a 'good guy'.

But most of the magicians are pretty rotten in their own right, I think.

Quote from: RPGPundit;833768Doesn't this depend on seeing Conan as the good guy?

I don't think so. You could see Conan as something other than the good guy and most of his magician foes still come across as some shade of "bad guy". I mean at the end of the day Conan is only really a hero by circumstance, not by morals. He may not be a bad guy, but he isn't out looking to save the world, he's typically looking to make a buck or save his own skin. So even though he is the protagonist of the stories he isn't necessarily a good guy. To me that is a defining feature of Sword and Sorcery literature, "heroes" who are more often than not just in it for themselves, any heroics are purely incidental.

Quote from: Arkansan;833432I think the biggest argument against magic using PC's in a Hyborian campaign is a thematic one. In most of Howard's works Magicians are bad guys, and magic is an obstacle to be overcome.

Generally true, but not always the case. I don't think a Conan RPG should enforce this absolutely though, and instead encourage it through the way magic works and what it achieves. Power generally has a corrupting effect, in and of itself IME

Quote from: Arkansan;833873I don't think so. You could see Conan as something other than the good guy and most of his magician foes still come across as some shade of "bad guy". I mean at the end of the day Conan is only really a hero by circumstance, not by morals. He may not be a bad guy, but he isn't out looking to save the world, he's typically looking to make a buck or save his own skin. So even though he is the protagonist of the stories he isn't necessarily a good guy. To me that is a defining feature of Sword and Sorcery literature, "heroes" who are more often than not just in it for themselves, any heroics are purely incidental.

There's one key element that defines his 'good/decent guy' status (remember the era it was written in, please) is that he's always rescuing the ladies, should they need it, and still wants to help them, when they don't.  Unless, of course, said ladies are truly evil (Salome.)

Quote from: Christopher Brady;833923There's one key element that defines his 'good/decent guy' status (remember the era it was written in, please) is that he's always rescuing the ladies, should they need it, and still wants to help them, when they don't.  Unless, of course, said ladies are truly evil (Salome.)

He'll massacre a whole African village (women & children presumably included) to get his hands on a white girl, so I'm not sure this marks him particularly as a good guy. In fact he seems pretty keen on killing absolutely anyone other than pretty white girls.

Quote from: S'mon;833950He'll massacre a whole African village (women & children presumably included) to get his hands on a white girl, so I'm not sure this marks him particularly as a good guy. In fact he seems pretty keen on killing absolutely anyone other than pretty white girls.

Again, the era it was written in.  Casual racism was common at all strata of life in the '30's.  And in his case, if you read more of REH's stuff, he starts to stop being completely racist to drinking his own Kool Aid and thinking that anything outside of Barbarianism is weak and pathetic.

In some of his non-Conan writings, like Solomon Kane, REH has a somewhat sympathetic Black/African Medicine Man as an ally to Kane.

I'm not excusing it, I'm just saying that due to societal perceptions of the time, and the fact that he always 'saved the girl' if he could, and she wasn't irredeemably evil, as per Salome (there was another woman who would have caused Conan issues, but she got eaten before he could do something about her) he was more or less a more 'heroic' type of figure.

And as people have pointed out, very few of REH's spell users were actually even moderately nice people.