As the tin says, I'm trying to make all my games Pulpish, as such the protagonists need a way to escape form certain death/defeat, so I thought of including a luck mechanic. Not sure what it'll look like yet.
So I'm interested in hearing what's your favourite luck mechanic, I might even plagiarize find inspiration on it.
Okay, thought of one mechanic:
Once per day you get to roll your luck and if you roll above the TN then you fall from the precipice but fall on top of a giant eagle and ride it...
The TN is equal to your initial ST.
So your class determine the Luck TN and it doesn't change.
Or you roll a d4
1 = Luck TN 17
2 = Luck TN 16
3 = Luck TN 15
4 = Luck TN 14
The target number still stays the same.
Mekton had a Luck pool, based on the stat of the same name, that could be used to augment rolls if committing to using at least one point there off before rolling. Useful for guaranteeing results on a critical roll.
Savage World Bennies for keep better rerolls. Especially if Bennies are not per session but the PCs can use as many as the like and the GM gets one to use whenever they do. You will pass that critical roll eventually, but how many Bennies have you given the antagonists in the process. Something of a karmic luck balance.
Mixing systems here, but having a willpower score that can be spent as rechargeable hero points to add success or buff roll or burnt, needing to be bought or otherwise raised again to replenish, as destiny points basically call upon the power of plot haxs or however Star Wars Saga Edition described them. Spend and recharge or spend and discard buffs might have been one of the Shadowruns and willpower is Storyteller with only mages being able to use it after the roll to cheat reality.
Using the entropy sphere to alter probability in Mage, as what are the chances something this improbable happens, could qualify, and the paradox backlash for using it in such a vulgar manner would hurt.
After various experiments, I can't say that I really like any variant of luck points--as explicit things for that purpose. Whether called luck, fate, Hero points, etc., it doesn't matter.
The reason is that if the points are hefty enough to be useful, they will be hoarded to avoid death, in which case they are only another means of death avoidance. On the other hand, if they are weakened enough to not be hoarded, they will tend to be forgotten. In practice, if I'm really careful about exactly what they can do, how they are presented, and remind the players how they work, then sometimes I can sit the game in a narrow slice where the points are used as expected. However, this is too much work for what it gives to the game. Moreover, it is never entirely settled, because the exact position of that narrow slice moves with changes in the players, their goals, etc.
Maybe my games attract the kind of players that are extreme outliers on luck mechanics. Could be, since I've yet to see an implementation of them that comes anywhere near that narrow slice when run as the game suggests. Also note that I have not yet tried DCC with this group. In theory, a luck mechanic that did not involve a decision could work--you have some, it always gets used in certain situations, it eventually runs out, but even DCC still has options to invoke it as a decision.
Savage Worlds bennies have been pretty good for me, especially as you have opportunities to gain them regularly (nothing like two players drawing Jokers in the same round, lol).
Favorite Luck mechanic? Hit Points. ;D
You roll the dice, you takes your chances. If I want pulpy I make the PCs significantly stronger than the bad guys.
I did like the system in the RMSS Channeling Companion, where luck points were a direct representation of divine favor for following the tenants of a god's faith.
Quote from: David Johansen on March 28, 2022, 09:12:39 AM
You roll the dice, you takes your chances.
Best "luck mechanic" ever. And the great part is that it's already built in to almost every game.
To follow up on what Steven Mitchell said, I've yet to see anyone even remember that they have Luck points when they're specifically for that purpose. I haven't even seen people burn karma/XP for "Luck" purposes in games that allow that either. It may have happened at some point, but I don't recall specific examples about it. Granted I don't generally play many systems that have them, but I don't recall it ever happening when I have.
I'm not even against the idea of Luck points or burning XP as "luck", but I think that the concept of Luck Points as specifically Luck per se is weak. And people are generally too focused on using XP for advancement to remember or even want to burn them as "luck", unless one of those luck uses includes avoiding certain death.
I would much prefer an "Effort" type mechanic that allows "luck" style uses to boost your rolls or avoid damage, but is primarily used like "Power Points" as the resource used to activate powers or special abilities of any type. That way the pool will see actual game use, but also has alternate uses for "Oh Shit!" moments or if you don't have any cool power currently, or none of them apply in that situation.
I also don't have a problem with HP being sacrificed as "Luck Points". I just don't like the idea of everything revolving around HP/Luck/Plot Armor to the point where absolutely nothing bad can ever happen to characters—not even actual falls (just the fall damage, but not the character going down) or an enemy wrestling them down and putting a knife on their throats—unless their HP are completely whittled down first. As has been discussed in the "Are HP dumb?" thread, where Chris has brought it up.
Aren't the vast majority of RPG mechanics luck mechanics?
Quote from: migo on March 28, 2022, 10:31:12 AM
Aren't the vast majority of RPG mechanics luck mechanics?
They have luck built in, but that isn't what they are simulating/expressing/modeling/representing, however you want to say it. The "luck" is in there to represent the play of the game, the holes in the model, the relative uncertainty of what is happening, etc.
That's kind of what I was indirectly getting at: I find that players who are actively having their characters pursue some action as part of role playing expect an aspect of luck to be there, but as soon as you call out "Luck" (or fate or hero points) as a discrete thing, they lose the thread.
I prefer games without luck mechanics, but I have run several that include them so I'll share those experiences. These games all had a finite number of luck points that acted as meta-currencies. The best versions (used in Low Fantasy Gaming and Crypts & Things) had you roll dice to see if you could get below your current luck score. Success meant you got some benefit (rerolls for example) but it depletes one point of luck, leaving you pool lower if you succeeded. As play progressed, the more you used, the harder it was to spend because the total got so low it was hard to roll under. Your luck was essentially running out but didn't ever get to zero. While some uses were voluntary (rerolls for example) it could also be used for saving throws.
If you adopt such a system, I'd offer two suggestions. (1) Give players a list of things they can always test their luck on, but also emphasize that you (DM) might grant other attempts if players get creative. (2) Be flexible but transparent about how quickly the luck pool refills. There is no refresh rate that will work for every type of adventure. A rate that works great for dungeon crawling (perhaps one point per hour of rest) will be very different from the rate used in wilderness travel (I used one point per day of rest).
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 28, 2022, 12:39:17 AM
As the tin says, I'm trying to make all my games Pulpish, as such the protagonists need a way to escape form certain death/defeat, so I thought of including a luck mechanic. Not sure what it'll look like yet.
So I'm interested in hearing what's your favourite luck mechanic, I might even plagiarize find inspiration on it.
Luck is for winning the game.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 28, 2022, 12:39:17 AM
As the tin says, I'm trying to make all my games Pulpish, as such the protagonists need a way to escape form certain death/defeat, so I thought of including a luck mechanic. Not sure what it'll look like yet.
One of the most recent The Shadow stories I read had The Shadow fighting some criminals in a mine. He threw some dynamite which exploded and killed the remaining gangsters and, as the story was written from another's perspective, it appeared to have killed The Shadow as well.
As a GM in an RPG there are several ways you can handle this:
1) The Shadow dies in the explosion so the player spends some Luck points to survive, saying he ducked into an knocked over minecart to avoid the explosion.
2) Before throwing the dynamite, player spends a "Narrative Device" point to make a minecart appear so he can jump into it after throwing the dynamite.
3) Before throwing the dynamite, the player asks the GM if there is any cover and the GM say, "There is a knocked over minecart nearby."
So it really comes down to why you want a Luck mechanic in the first place. Option #1 is really just saving the character's life with no effort on the part of the player whereas option #3 requires the GM to be running the game with a certain level of generosity.
That being said, I prefer Luck mechanics to not require a roll (as you can't be unlucky while being lucky) but also not have points to spend as making anything cost points automatically makes players hesitant to use them. For me the best method of having a Luck mechanic is to not have it but, instead, to have the GM accumulate Unluck points to be used against the PCs at a later date.
In my games, if a player's action is hinging on luck I tell them to throw a d6. I can work out pretty quick something on the fly. I usually preview it by telling them what number or range of numbers they are hoping to get or avoid. It is SUPER quick so tension is not lost talking mechanics.
Jumping from one rooftop to another?..."Give me a d6. You don't want a one or two."
I always had a soft spot for the "Test your LUCK" mechanic in Fighting Fantasy, which is exactly as Vidgrip described above -- you have a LUCK score ranging from 7 to 12, and you have to roll equal to or below it on 2d6 to be Lucky, and every time you Test your LUCK your Current LUCK drops by 1.
Another interesting one was the "Whim of Fate" from Burning Wheel; if you or the GM want to see if something significant happens, roll a d6; on a 1, something happens, on anything else, nada. I just liked the elemental simplicity of it.
And, of course, there's the Luck Spiritual Attribute from The Riddle of Steel, which provides from 1 to 5 dice that can be spent on any roll but don't refresh once spent (as opposed to the other SAs which keep their rolling bonus when used, but can only be used on specific things by SA).
The trick to keeping Luck points from being hoarded, I think, is to make them useful enough in enough other ways than simple prevention of death that the temptation to grab an immediate small-scale benefit is always there, rather than conserving them to do nothing but guard against an outlying mortal danger. There's also the rule used in Swashbucklers of the Seven Skies, which says that all unused Drama Dice vanish at the end of a session, so a die not used that session is a die wasted.
The best "luck point" system I've seen doesn't involve points, at all. It's the Edge system from Marvel Saga. Basically, you have cards numbered from 1 to 10. They're distributed on a bit of a bell curve, so there are more 5s than 10s. There are four suits, associated with the 4 attributes, plus a final suit for the referee.
Characters are defined by their Edge, which is a number from 1 to 4. Beginning heroes are 1, experienced heroes (most PCs) are 2, very experienced heroes are 3, and the fucking Batman is 4. That latter almost isn't a joke -- the core set only has 3 characters with an Edge of 4 -- Doctor Doom, Captain America, and (most borderline) Magneto. Professor X doesn't qualify as a 4. Neither does Wolverine, or Doctor Strange. Nor would Superman or Wonder Woman.
Edge determines your hand size, i.e. how many cards you have to play. This means you'll be more likely to have a card with a high number, but it also means that you're more likely to be able to trump -- to play a card that matches the suit of the task you're attempting, which allows you to play another card on top. And in addition, you can also play cards of your Edge or below for free, on top of everything else. You hand also works as hit points, losing cards as you take damage.
The basic idea is that "luck", which in this case is more "badassitude", is part of normal organic play. You do spend cards, similar to points, but it's not a separate meta mechanic you have to remember to evoke in order to adjust the normal flow of mechanics. Instead, it gives you a fundamental advantage that's deeply woven into the core mechanics of play.
The Luck mechanic used in R. Talsorian Games Cyberpunk and Mekton.
Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 06:26:09 PM
The best "luck point" system I've seen doesn't involve points, at all. It's the Edge system from Marvel Saga. Basically, you have cards numbered from 1 to 10. They're distributed on a bit of a bell curve, so there are more 5s than 10s. There are four suits, associated with the 4 attributes, plus a final suit for the referee.
In this game, if you play a 10 card doesn't it go into the GM's hand for him to play against you? That's sort of what I was talking about by having Luck activation cause a failure later on.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 28, 2022, 07:11:39 PM
Quote from: Pat on March 28, 2022, 06:26:09 PM
The best "luck point" system I've seen doesn't involve points, at all. It's the Edge system from Marvel Saga. Basically, you have cards numbered from 1 to 10. They're distributed on a bit of a bell curve, so there are more 5s than 10s. There are four suits, associated with the 4 attributes, plus a final suit for the referee.
In this game, if you play a 10 card doesn't it go into the GM's hand for him to play against you? That's sort of what I was talking about by having Luck activation cause a failure later on.
That's the main flaw of the Saga system. Comic book plots usually start with the players in the dark, and they are frequently gassed, trapped, or beaten or otherwise easily conquered by relatively low tier foes. Over the course of the comic, they start to uncover mysteries, face off successfully against foes that originally seemed very tough, and then pull it all out in a climax against a very difficult foe. In game terms, the natural flow would be for the referee's Doom deck to start full so they can set up all those situations where the players are at a disadvantage, and then empty out over the course of a game session, until the players can run roughshod over the main villain. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. In practice, it's rarely an issue with an experienced referee, who knows to use Doom cards selectively instead of using them to overwhelm the referee. And the rest of the mechanics work amazingly well. But the backward flow is a mechanical flaw, and shouldn't be emulated.
My favorite version is a point system like they used in WFRP 1e.
It's exceedingly simple. You basically get between 1 and 3 'Fate points'. You can use these to stave off a grievous wound or grab that branch if you fall from a deadly height. Once they are gone you're shit out of luck.
You can earn them back through play, but getting them back is very infrequent - so they are a very precious commodity.
Call of Cthulhu "magic points" as efforts of supreme will, used to modify bad rolls into being good rolls. That includes modifying bad hit location rolls. MP recover from rest, provisions, or experiences of awe or beauty, and can go beyond the maximum through supernatural means. Cuts down on the dramatically uninteresting failures and deaths. (I suppose they are effectively acting as "hit points" as the investigators perk up when they start running low on them.)
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 28, 2022, 07:41:19 PM
My favorite version is a point system like they used in WFRP 1e.
It's exceedingly simple. You basically get between 1 and 3 'Fate points'. You can use these to stave off a grievous wound or grab that branch if you fall from a deadly height. Once they are gone you're shit out of luck.
You can earn them back through play, but getting them back is very infrequent - so they are a very precious commodity.
Yeah, I'll second this one. As someone else noted, even in systems with Luck points (like DCC) we often seem to forget about them in the heat of play. And I'm not a big fan of them in any case.
Feng Shui, you get an extra positive d6 roll on task check (normally is +d6-d6+Ability Score).
Luck is a characteristic, every time you use extra d6 it drops by one until is 0.
At the start of the new session, it reverts to full.
This is very good, because you get an important boost, but you can still fail.
Luck reverting to full next session is good, because the rules doesn't enforce a narrative
straightjacket to gain bonuses (like Savage Worlds bennies).
Similar to this, Lex Arcana invocation of the Patron God. You get an extra roll (rolling again and
adding to your first roll) in your class primary skill. That is once per session/adventure, subject
to the character continue worshipping the patron god in game.
QuoteMy favorite version is a point system like they used in WFRP 1e.
It's exceedingly simple. You basically get between 1 and 3 'Fate points'. You can use these to stave off a grievous wound or grab that branch if you fall from a deadly height. Once they are gone you're shit out of luck.
You can earn them back through play, but getting them back is very infrequent - so they are a very precious commodity.
4E made it bit more robust system - still quite fine I think. You get Luck as Fate derivative for less DRASTIC situations, Luck is recovered steadily, while Fate only if you do something BIG.
And then you have Resolve - Resilience which personal power used in different situations which you can advance when you do something you picked as your life purpose at the beginning of the game.