Anyone familiar with it? The writer just bought ad space here. I'd never heard of it until then.  Looks to be OSR. I guess I'll find out in a bit because he's also planning to send me a review copy.

Quote from: RPGPundit;928359Anyone familiar with it? The writer just bought ad space here. I'd never heard of it until then.  Looks to be OSR. I guess I'll find out in a bit because he's also planning to send me a review copy.

It's among my top 5 favourite OSR games, and there's quite the competition:).
And it has mechanics quite similar to Mighty Deeds, which you should like.

I'll let you discover the rest for yourself, though;).

I am reluctant to toot my own horn, but just a couple of points for LFG for those who might be unfamiliar:

(1) Free PDF - https://lowfantasygaming.com/freepdf/

(2) $6 USD softcover via Lulu - http://www.lulu.com/shop/http://www.lulu.com/shop/stephen-j-grodzicki/low-fantasy-gaming/paperback/product-22916505.html


I like to think of it as a rules lite mix of OSR and modern rules design. By way of summary, the main points of difference between LFG and most d20 based games are:

•   5 classes only: Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Rogue & Magic User.

•   12th Level Maximum eliminates the most powerful magic, and keeps the mightiest monsters scary.

•   Roll equal or under attribute (with modifiers) to resolve uncertain actions, making every attribute point matter.

•   Willpower and Perception attributes replace the Wisdom attribute.

•   Skills provide access to a Level based Reroll Pool.

•   Diminishing Luck attribute that replaces saving throws, and powers some martial exploits.

•   Minor, Major and Rescue Exploits (on top of damage, not in lieu) provide creative combat options and moments of greatness.

•   Dangerous Combat: dropping to zero hit points is serious –

       o   Cure spells work more slowly (1d3 minutes) on subjects reduced to zero hit points.
       o   Long term Injuries & Setbacks trigger at zero hit points (assuming the adventurer isn’t dead).
       o   Players test to see if a downed adventurer is dead only after combat has ended.

•   Party Retreat and Chase rules allow the GM to throw whatever makes sense at the party, without worrying about “balanced” encounters.

•   5 minute Short Rests allow all classes to recover hit points and class abilities quickly, encouraging the party to push on rather than camp.

•   Dark & Dangerous Magic tests, making all spell casting inherently dangerous. No at-will or resurrection magic. Magic users are less reliant on spells, using one handed weapons and light armour.

•   Rare magical items, with obvious and discreet properties, that unlock as their owners level up.

•   Online Play Support: a customized character sheet is available for online play at https://roll20.net/

•   Rules as Guidelines. The GM is the final authority on all LFG “rules”. Everything herein is a guide only, and should be tailored to fit the preferences of the GM and players.

Cheers

As someone who very rarely uses D&D-like systems, those almost all sound like the sorts of design shifts I'd want. Replace hitpoints with a more literal injury (& avoidance) system, and I might really enjoy it.

I downloaded it last night, liked what I saw and threw caution to the wind and ordered a print copy.  For anyone interested, there's a 35% off coupon NIGEL35 that I used.  Was able to get it for $7.13 shipped.

Quote from: Skarg;928429As someone who very rarely uses D&D-like systems, those almost all sound like the sorts of design shifts I'd want. Replace hitpoints with a more literal injury (& avoidance) system, and I might really enjoy it.

Damage save mechanics:p.

Of course, sufficiently abstract HP mechanics are just a form of an extended damage save. This fact is just obscured because the attacker rolls it;).

Quote from: RunningLaser;928430I downloaded it last night, liked what I saw and threw caution to the wind and ordered a print copy.  For anyone interested, there's a 35% off coupon NIGEL35 that I used.  Was able to get it for $7.13 shipped.

Love Lulu coupions! Glad you liked it, if you get a chance to play it, by all means let us know how it goes

I ordered it too with that lulu coupon.  $6.88 American that includes shipping.  Woo hoo.

Quote from: AsenRG;928437Damage save mechanics:p.

Of course, sufficiently abstract HP mechanics are just a form of an extended damage save. This fact is just obscured because the attacker rolls it;).

Please don't even joke about that. Some people will continue to not get it.

Abstract HP mechanics are only a form of damage save, in a very abstract and statistically very different form.

One obvious difference, is that if someone points a weapon at a very skillful defender, in a HP system, the defender knows they cannot be defeated in one attack, because they have several times more HP than the attack's max damage roll. If instead, they just have a high chance of defending against the attack, three is still a risk of defeat in one attack. Moreover, during longer battles, the point where fighters will be defeated is not a known eventuality and a matter of wearing down HP - it's a constant unpredictable risk.

Rather like any literal universe. It's not like I have a stack of ironclad parries and block, after which I won't be able to block or parry at all.

Quote from: Skarg;928572Please don't even joke about that. Some people will continue to not get it.

But that's the funniest part of it:D!
Personally, I'm planning to use at least some parts of it, mixed with Spellcraft and Swordplay...but the damage system is going to be an unholy mix of traditional HP, (my own treatment of) Ex3's Initiative, and Synergy v2's damage saves:p.
Witness it, people devoid of sense of humour, and despair! Your cries shall be music for my ears:).

QuoteAbstract HP mechanics are only a form of damage save, in a very abstract and statistically very different form.

Just as extended rolls are sttistically different from normal rolls.

QuoteOne obvious difference, is that if someone points a weapon at a very skillful defender, in a HP system, the defender knows they cannot be defeated in one attack, because they have several times more HP than the attack's max damage roll. If instead, they just have a high chance of defending against the attack, three is still a risk of defeat in one attack.

Basically, there isn't any.

QuoteMoreover, during longer battles, the point where fighters will be defeated is not a known eventuality and a matter of wearing down HP - it's a constant unpredictable risk.

Hide the hit points from players, let the GM note just how many points each attack was dealing. Now everything after that first attack or two is the same constant unpredictable risk. Did you lost 11 out of your 13 HP in those first two strikes, or did you lose only 3, putting you at safety? Listen to the GM's description for hints.
There's a reason why this method works so well in Unknown Armies;).

QuoteRather like any literal universe. It's not like I have a stack of ironclad parries and block, after which I won't be able to block or parry at all.

But once your hand tires of it, or rather it's more likely to be your legs, you know you won't be able to parry;).

That said, I still prefer non-HP systems.

Quote from: RPGPundit;928359Anyone familiar with it? The writer just bought ad space here. I'd never heard of it until then.  Looks to be OSR. I guess I'll find out in a bit because he's also planning to send me a review copy.

Nope but thanks for mentioning it. I've been looking for something like this for a while. maybe it will be the one.

Quote from: Skarg;928572One obvious difference, is that if someone points a weapon at a very skillful defender, in a HP system, the defender knows they cannot be defeated in one attack, because they have several times more HP than the attack's max damage roll. If instead, they just have a high chance of defending against the attack, three is still a risk of defeat in one attack. Moreover, during longer battles, the point where fighters will be defeated is not a known eventuality and a matter of wearing down HP - it's a constant unpredictable risk.

Critical hits with a chance to kill outright (or just open-ended damage rolls) can address that desire for uncertainty with minimal change to the rules.

Quote from: AsenRG;928586Hide the hit points from players, let the GM note just how many points each attack was dealing. Now everything after that first attack or two is the same constant unpredictable risk. Did you lost 11 out of your 13 HP in those first two strikes, or did you lose only 3, putting you at safety? Listen to the GM's description for hints.

When I first played D&D (0e with Greyhawk and other supplements), the DM always rolled a PC's hit points for each expedition secretly, and gave only vague categories of relative health (more granular for fighters, usually), so even the first attack was an unpredictable risk. I once saw a 3rd level Cleric die from a single claw attack doing d4. One DM didn't like that a Constitution bonus gave a higher known minimum number of HPs and used the bonus to increase the size of the hit dice instead. (And we also had significant critical hits; very tiny chance of an instant kill, among many other effects.)

I don't like the average damage amount given in 5e stat blocks; then there's too much certainty in the calculation of how many hits a character can withstand (slightly skewed by critical hits, but not much). I always roll damage when I DM, although most DMs I've met use the average amount.

BTW, Skarg, I think you should just homebrew a mix of Low Fantasy, DCC and Five Ancient Kingdoms combat systems, maybe with some influence from Spellcraft and Swordplay, Zenobia and True20 thrown in:p.
If I'm seeing oddly specific, it's because that's what I am doing;). I've got lots of time before I'd ever use that one, though.

Well I tend to just use GURPS or similar systems, because they just work and do what I want quite well.

I'm not sure what's to be gained from adapting other systems to be more like what I want. Since I also don't tend to use much content that I don't just make myself, or that I can't easily convert to something for a system I like, I'm not sure there's a point. Also a lot of D&D-ish content just wouldn't work well how I like to play, because of the numbers and power levels and immunities of the typical opponents in those settings, etc.

There is a seed of an idea back there germinating in the soil of visiting TheRPGSite, though. I think I could make a set of rules that would be able to take OSR-ish content, but apply rules more like I like... though there are several ways to aim that, depending on what's wanted, and who it'd be for.

Quote from: rawma;928918I don't like the average damage amount given in 5e stat blocks; then there's too much certainty in the calculation of how many hits a character can withstand (slightly skewed by critical hits, but not much). I always roll damage when I DM, although most DMs I've met use the average amount.

Yeah I dont like average damage either, I like the randomness of the roll. And if you roll your damage dice at the same time as your hit roll, it doesnt take any longer.