[this could probably be more appropriately posted on the LotFPs own forum, but since this is the only place I regularly read/post, and a lot of people on therpgsite have recently written cool and interesting stuff about LotFP, so here it goes]
I recently bought Lamentations of the Flame Princess Grindhouse Edition, my first encounter with something OSR-ish and D&D since the early 90s, and I really like it. A lot. I like the grit and feel, the classes seem good (if a little bland - but that just makes them easily adaptable) and I really hope to be able to run an Allansia campaign using LotFP instead of the Fighting Fantasy soon; I think it'll be a good fit.
But, for a game that seems to cater new (role)players very much (an entire tutorial-book, a book with lots'n'lot's of gm-advice, inclusion of dice) I think the rules is rather on the sketchy and illogical side, especially when it comes to giving a general overview of the rules. For example, in the chapter about combat, the basic 'making an attack' is described like this:
Quote"The referee will inform the player what the opponent's AC is, and the player roll a D20 to determine if his character hits. If the result is equal to or greater than the defender's AC (including all modifiers), the character inflicts the weapons damage" (page 57)
Including all modifiers? These modifiers are not mentioned or described in the combat section at all. As far as I can tell, they are only mentioned much earlier in the description of stats (on page 2-3) and here only described as:
Quote"Strength modifiers affect the character's ability to hit in mêlée combat" (affects how?)
And on page 20 ("Record Attack Bonus"), where the different classes basic attack bonus is described and explained a little, there's no mention of the strength/dexterity modifiers to combat rolls.
I remember a bit from old D&D, and have played some of the newer versions, so after flicking back and forth a few times I got it, but I think the vagueness and lack of basic information in the combat section (where there instead is a lot about wrestling!?!) would/will make it hard for a newbie GM/player to get it right. To me it looks like the rules of LotFP expect the player/reader to know at least some D&D in advance. Or is just me?
As I am rather rusty when it comes to this version and style of D&D, I'm also left with a couple of questions:
- Are there limitations to use of weapon and armor in LotFP when it comes to classes? From the rules I don't see that a cleric can't wield a sword or a magic user's skill is hampered by plate armor, or have I missed it?
- In the description of stats it states that there is intelligence and Wisdom modifiers to saving throws, magic and non-magical respectively. So a high Wisdom makes you more resistant to... poison? I can see that it is a way of making the stats more empowered, but... poison!?! Is this how it is tackled in other old school/D&Dish games?
- Finally, I really like the idea of making new and unique monsters, but as I haven't touched D&D for 15 years, I could use some (more) guidelines to monsters as well as stats for some standard critters (I'll tweak them, promise!). If I'm looking for a LotFP-compatible bestiary (preferably free), what would be my best bet? I downloaded the free version of Labyrinth Lord so far, but is there something better out there?
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;469578Including all modifiers? These modifiers are not mentioned or described in the combat section at all. As far as I can tell, they are only mentioned much earlier in the description of stats (on page 2-3) and here only described as:
And on page 20 (“Record Attack Bonus”), where the different classes basic attack bonus is described and explained a little, there’s no mention of the strength/dexterity modifiers to combat rolls.
Additional possible modifiers are in the combat section on pages 57 and 58, plus you never know what special conditions are in play or what conditional modifiers the Ref might declare depending on the situation.
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;469578- Are there limitations to use of weapon and armor in LotFP when it comes to classes?
Other than halflings and their issues with medium and large weapons, no.
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;469578- In the description of stats it states that there is intelligence and Wisdom modifiers to saving throws, magic and non-magical respectively. So a high Wisdom makes you more resistant to… poison?
Think of it more as worldy awareness and the ability to avoid the threat in the first place rather than Wisdom actually making you more or less resistant.
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;469578- Finally, I really like the idea of making new and unique monsters, but as I haven’t touched D&D for 15 years, I could use some (more) guidelines to monsters as well as stats for some standard critters (I’ll tweak them, promise!). If I’m looking for a LotFP-compatible bestiary (preferably free), what would be my best bet? I downloaded the free version of Labyrinth Lord so far, but is there something better out there?
My "official stance" is that if you're poaching monster lists from other games you're defeating the point of my not including a bestiary in the first place. The lower levels are supposed to be the time when a new Ref and the new players figure this stuff out through experimentation. "Oh crap, I made that too powerful and wiped you guys out! Sorry!" and "Hmm, you guys just kicked the crap out that beast with no problems. I thought that was going to be a major challenge!" are both valid and fun outcomes, especially at low level play.
I used Basic Fantasy RPG as my rules before putting the LotFP game together, so that might be a place to look for things to swipe...
Cheers, James.
Concerning the lack of limitations to weapons and armors, why did you choose this approach? I think it's well cool, but the classic cleric-blunt-weapon no-metal-for-the-wizard seems one of the most consistent thing in D&D through the years. (apart from the obvious of you not thinking that anyone should be without metal!)
With the lack of combat advancement for non-Fighters and the removal of the assumption of a constant stream of ever more powerful magic items, there really didn't seem to be any purpose for the limitations.
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;469578- Finally, I really like the idea of making new and unique monsters, but as I haven't touched D&D for 15 years, I could use some (more) guidelines to monsters as well as stats for some standard critters (I'll tweak them, promise!). If I'm looking for a LotFP-compatible bestiary (preferably free), what would be my best bet? I downloaded the free version of Labyrinth Lord so far, but is there something better out there?
There are some monster stats and a Weird Monster Generator in the free LotFP fan supplement pdf linked in my signature; hope they help!
"The referee will inform the player...what the AC is..."?
Man that's a pussy rule. I never tell the players flat out.
I don't know how long a round is in LotFP, but if you're spending 60 seconds trying to do hurt to somebody, I'd say you've got every reason to know how hard they are for you to hit. Aside from that, it speeds up play at the table if the players can just roll hit and damage together and then tell you the final result.
Yeah, the player has already committed to making an attack at that point and can make an educated guess about how hard it's going to be anyway. I think what the AC guessing game adds to play isn't much compared to the quickness and convenience of telling the players.
I don't tell the players what the AC is before anyone even tries to attack, though.
The way that armor and weapons for the classes is handled in LotFP is fairly elegant. Technically, anyone can, in theory, use any armor or weapon.
However, both specialists and arcane spellcasters are restricted by encumbrance rules, in such a way that it makes it very difficult for them to use heavy armor without being unable to use their special class abilities.
I figured it out that a magic-user can still cast spells if he is wearing plate mail, but only if he has basically nothing else on him. So, only just. Usually, its just not worth it.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;469728The way that armor and weapons for the classes is handled in LotFP is fairly elegant.
Check. I agree completely. It is pretty logical, easy to apply and the first time in a long time that I have considered actually using emcumbrance rules at all in an rpg.
... and having the option of a mad wizard cackeling on a hilltop dressed in full armor or a non-sneaky specialist travelling around protected by a chain mail is neat.