So, as much as many people rant and rave about how awesome Paizo's APs are, I just can't get behind the baked-in railroading involved (I know, its essential for adventures that take the same characters through an over-arcing pre-written story, but come on...), and I've been looking at which of them can be hacked apart to make a functioning sandbox or general setting which can be used for playing, rather than telling one story.
Has anyone managed this? I've been eyeing up Kingmaker and Skulls and Shackles for this, as the two with the most sandbox-friendly approach (although both have their own railroads).
I think you're right about those two.
I've GM'd Book 1 of Runelords (TPK'd on Nualia) and Books 1-3 plus part of 5 so far for Curse of the Crimson Throne (ongoing). It often seems that the most fun is had when the players are not on The Track and are getting to experience the richly detailed setting more sandboxy, eg the fun Sandpoint hinterlands in Runelords, or we did a three-session detour to Kaer Maga in Crimson Throne.
I guess the best thing is to treat most of each AP volume as optional, let the players deviate freely, and treat each volume as a venue for sandboxing with optional encounters. Then at the end run the next volume if it fits, or skip the whole book if it doesn't - I skipped Book 4 in Crimson Throne, instead we had Kaer Maga plus a dangerous trip through the Shadow Plane to Scarwall.
Sorry; I decided there are just too many great sandboxy D&D setting materials out there for me to waste my time trying to fix one of the Piazo's. When I realized the commercial modules for 5E were turning out to be the same deal I put my books back on the shelf and pulled out some OSR stuff...
I wonder if there's a market for modules that are more bundles of characters, resources, and a flow of events than an actual typical plot.
I think there are plenty of things like that to be found (depending on how much pre-defined plot you really want). I'm reading Blackmarsh for HOW right now and it is a simple, short document that is aimed at pretty extreme end-member 'sandbox', yet there are things going on the DM can use as 'plot points'
Quote from: PiebaldWookie;817036So, as much as many people rant and rave about how awesome Paizo's APs are, I just can't get behind the baked-in railroading involved (I know, its essential for adventures that take the same characters through an over-arcing pre-written story, but come on...), and I've been looking at which of them can be hacked apart to make a functioning sandbox or general setting which can be used for playing, rather than telling one story.
Has anyone managed this? I've been eyeing up Kingmaker and Skulls and Shackles for this, as the two with the most sandbox-friendly approach (although both have their own railroads).
https://mechanteanemone.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/ok-so-how-do-i-do-that/
Now, I'm a bit leery of some of the article. Sometimes GMs need to say "No" and Robin Laws' book was one of the more useless ones I've read on game mastering, but most of the ideas, I think, are sound.
One reason that sandboxing Sandpoint worked well in my Runelords game was that I ran it in AD&D, which meant that the PCs could do tons of stuff without risk of out-levelling the AP. Pre-3e's "x2 XP = +1 level" system is vastly more flexible than more linear XP systems - your players can have done twice as much stuff as expected by the AP and they'll only be 1 level higher; depending on what you award XP for, perhaps not even that. And levels in AD&D don't give as big a power-up as in 3e/PF, so there's a lot more flexibility.
In PF you can run an AP on a slower XP track than the default, this helps a bit, but PCs who miss too much content may be in a lot of trouble.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;817116https://mechanteanemone.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/ok-so-how-do-i-do-that/
Now, I'm a bit leery of some of the article. Sometimes GMs need to say "No" and Robin Laws' book was one of the more useless ones I've read on game mastering, but most of the ideas, I think, are sound.
Oh dear, it was PFS. Pathfinder Society is a bit of a... nannied safe space. There's little in the way of GM flexibility and PC messing with each other. One of the reasons my FLGS coordinator switched to running 5e Adventure League and delegating PFS to others, way more GM discretion.
Ummm, buy the setting books, not the AP's?
I feel like your trying to make a mechanics shop, by taking apart a motorcycle.
AP's aren't designed to be sandboxes, not really (Kingmaker is the closest, but it still has a definite plot, even if it takes a while (or not!) for the players to get there).