Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1050907The OTE scenario 'With a Long Spoon' revolves around a group of Black Supremacists, who believe their melanin gives them psychic powers, who kidnap children, and are actually run by a group of pedophiles led by a black man who lightens his skin to avoid detection. And if that doesn't make the White Supremacists trying to expose those crimes look like the good guys, I don't know what would.

That situation is even worse than you're describing, but With a Long Spoon was written by Alison Brooks not Tweet.

Wildest Dreams also has an extremely sick premise, but again it's not written by Tweet (authors: Laws, Stolze, and Tynes).

In general though, I think that's just nature of the game. It's about going to extremes in weirdness, and sometimes that ends up in disturbing places as the authors try to push the boundaries even further. Of course, that's completely verboten today.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1050745Except mechanically it was in no way a 'godfather of storygames'.

That would be Amber's title, I believe.  It did after all inspire FATE's creation.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1050745Also, I dread to imagine what the 'new take on the island'.  Knowing the current insanity of the Derangement Crowd, it'll probably be full of really pathetically transparent "evil Trump" metaphors that will age horribly.

Reading this thread on the game's past makes me wonder what the hell was going on when they designed it...

Quote from: Cam Banks;1050765I don't know - how well do you know Jonathan Tweet?

This game is closer to the game he wanted to write in 1992, and to the game he was running at the time for his friends. I always trust the author as a developer.

Cheers,
Cam

Given that you're trying to claim that a non-storygame RPG was the 'godfather of storygames' I have trouble taking you seriously at all. But, I hope I'm wrong.

One of the great things about OtE in the 90s was that it had sophisticated themes without being overtly temporally political, it wasn't a commentary on US politics circa the early 90s, it didn't fall into that trap.

I hope that this doesn't happen now, but given how pervasive Trump Derangement Syndrome is among the entire 'creative Left', it's hard to think that there won't be practically a DEMAND that this happen.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1050891Honestly, I don't think that's a good indication of what you can expect to see in the game itself. I'm not familiar with #Gamers4Her,

Gamers4her was a movement in the last weeks of the 2016 election where RPG game designers were pressured to publicly declare their support for Hillary Clinton (a woman who, among many other misdeeds, literally tried to ban games when she was a senator), with the understanding that anyone who didn't join in would be collectively punished in the Golden Age to follow Hillary's Inevitable Victory.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1051125Given that you're trying to claim that a non-storygame RPG was the 'godfather of storygames' I have trouble taking you seriously at all. But, I hope I'm wrong.

Nah, I don't find the statement absurd at all. I can see OTE, Pendragon, Everway, etc. as clear ancestors of the current non-traditional games we have nowadays.

Quote from: Itachi;1051130Nah, I don't find the statement absurd at all. I can see OTE, Pendragon, Everway, etc. as clear ancestors of the current non-traditional games we have nowadays.

What are you doing man???  You're claiming 'his' games are doing it wrong!  It can't possibly be!  Oh the HUMANITY!

Quote from: Itachi;1051130Nah, I don't find the statement absurd at all. I can see OTE, Pendragon, Everway, etc. as clear ancestors of the current non-traditional games we have nowadays.

And Amber.  Now, those were all better AS GAMES than the modern versions.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1051235And Amber.

Oh yeah, I forgot that.  

QuoteNow, those were all better AS GAMES than the modern versions.

Don't know if I follow you here. I can see every one of those games, old and new, being interesting in their own way.

Quote from: Itachi;1051239Oh yeah, I forgot that.  


Don't know if I follow you here. I can see every one of those games, old and new, being interesting in their own way.

My reaction to the storygames I've seen can be summed up as "it's too bad this isn't as good as Pendragon."  Not that I play or run anything but GURPS much nowadays, but GURPS is so far removed from them it's not worth the comparison.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1051240My reaction to the storygames I've seen can be summed up as "it's too bad this isn't as good as Pendragon."  Not that I play or run anything but GURPS much nowadays, but GURPS is so far removed from them it's not worth the comparison.

Oh yeah, if you're all into GURPS I can see how these games may bother you.

About Pendragon, I bet it would be considered a storygame if released these days.

Quote from: Itachi;1051249Oh yeah, if you're all into GURPS I can see how these games may bother you.

Hey, I love GURPS. It was my starting point back in . . . '95 or '96. And "these games" don't bother me one bit. Powered by the Apocalypse is one of my favorite things in recent memory(though certain specific iterations like Masks and Apocalypse World 2e leave something to be desired).

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1051258Hey, I love GURPS. It was my starting point back in . . . '95 or '96. And "these games" don't bother me one bit. Powered by the Apocalypse is one of my favorite things in recent memory(though certain specific iterations like Masks and Apocalypse World 2e leave something to be desired).

You're right. I play both too, and I'm a fan of PbtA and Cortex. Further, he already knew Pendragon, OTE and Amber so modern games shouldn't feel so out of place, I think.

BTW, Apocalypse World 2e also felt weird to me with all those battle moves. Found this change against the game's spirit. (also, I didn't like the Operator getting cut out)

Quote from: Itachi;1051249Oh yeah, if you're all into GURPS I can see how these games may bother you.

About Pendragon, I bet it would be considered a storygame if released these days.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they bother me, I just don't like them.  That's all.  I wouldn't even go so far as to say I hate them, they just ain't for me.

Quote from: Itachi;1051319You're right. I play both too, and I'm a fan of PbtA and Cortex. Further, he already knew Pendragon, OTE and Amber so modern games shouldn't feel so out of place, I think.

I love Cortex, too. I'm waiting for Prime to finally be done before doing more work on a hack I have that's in the preliminary stages. And I backed Lords of Gossamer and Shadow(basically Amber w/ the serial numbers filed off), and would love to get to play that sometime. Sometimes I wonder if it's just that my earliest consistent gaming was done at conventions, where I just tried out everything that sounded interesting. I got to try out a lot of different styles and mechanics without settling into a single one. And even when I didn't care for the mechanics, most of the people I got to play with were really nice and a lot of fun to hang with, so I got lucky there. And maybe the whole artificial split thing has more to do with the "old dog/new tricks" adage than anything else. Plus some personality clashes, internal politics, and unfortunate statements(y'all know which ones) that exacerbated the issue.

QuoteBTW, Apocalypse World 2e also felt weird to me with all those battle moves. Found this change against the game's spirit.

Yes! That's exactly how I explain why I don't like the change, too! The battle moves are probably the most egregious example, but a number of the system changes in 2e seem to fundamentally miss what made the original(and the better derivatives) so great in the first place.

Quote(also, I didn't like the Operator getting cut out)

This is one of the changes I actually don't have a strong opinion on one way or the other. I mean, it kind of makes sense that anyone can do odd jobs in their community, so in that way it seems kind of superfluous. But if there were interesting ways to play with the whole jobs thing that made sense to restrict and  package as moves, maybe a separate playbook would still be cool. I dunno. Like I said, no real strong feelings here.

Pendragon is not a storygame, but mechanically it has some things (with traits and passions) that would at least make it closer to being a 'storygame' than Over The Edge; which has NO such mechanics.