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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: TheTechnomancer on February 20, 2022, 01:25:53 PM

Title: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: TheTechnomancer on February 20, 2022, 01:25:53 PM
I have played 6th Edition Champions and was wondering if there was a better superhero rpg than Champions.  I would like able also play as a villains in this superhero rpg unlike Champions.

Below are a few of type character I would be able play as.
1)   An Aquaman/Namor type character
2)   A gunslinger who has smoke-based attacks and the ability to turn into smoke and fly while in smoke form.  This gunslinger has to use items to protect himself from taking damage such as body armor or a force field belt.
3)   A human who is turned into a half human/half snake person with six arm
4)   An alien being who has psionic powers or cybernetics.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Chris24601 on February 20, 2022, 06:06:41 PM
Mutants & Masterminds is probably your best bet. 2e has a lot of d20SRD DNA left in it, but has crunchier character building, 3e breaks further away from the d20SRD (and has its own SRD), but is less crunchy and more balanced.

Personally, I houserule 2e with the parts of 3e I like (mostly the Affliction power, which can be ported directly, and adding tradeoffs to the 2e saves instead of just power level caps) and a houserule for damage to make it a bit less swingy (basically PCs/major NPCs get 50 hit points, minions get 10; damage is 1d20+Power Rank and everyone gets DR equal to their Toughness bonus (i.e. if you have a +10 Toughness, you have DR 10)... you're staggered at 20 hit points, unconscious at 0... recoveries add 10 hit points).

The only issue with them is the company behind them has drifted firmly into the Red category of Woke; so I'd go searching for second hand books or use the free online 3e SRD instead of giving them any money.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Spinachcat on February 20, 2022, 09:02:01 PM
I really like TRI-STAT / SILVER AGE SENTINELS for supers. Of all the RPGs I've played supers campaigns in, I gotta say SAS was the most fun mechanically because it felt like Champions with easy math and less math in actual play.

There's a new edition called ABSOLUTE POWER on Kickstarter now, but for my taste, I think the basic Tri-Stat book is pure awesome because then you as GM craft the system toward what kind of supers game you want exactly without any setting assumptions.

I never enjoyed Mutants & Masterminds (too fiddly for me), but I did play a TRUE20 supers game - street level supers - that I thought worked very well. Even as we progressed, we became more Batman and not Superman.

If you want to play villains, I really enjoyed NECESSARY EVIL even though Savage Worlds isn't perfect for supers in my experience. I loved how you were still totally evil, but humanity's last hope because the asshoe aliens had to be stopped. I played a Vampire Lord who convinced normies to be my blood slaves in exchange for protection from the aliens.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest




Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Aglondir on February 21, 2022, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 20, 2022, 01:25:53 PM
I have played 6th Edition Champions and was wondering if there was a better superhero rpg than Champions.  I would like able also play as a villains in this superhero rpg unlike Champions.

Below are a few of type character I would be able play as.
1)   An Aquaman/Namor type character
2)   A gunslinger who has smoke-based attacks and the ability to turn into smoke and fly while in smoke form.  This gunslinger has to use items to protect himself from taking damage such as body armor or a force field belt.
3)   A human who is turned into a half human/half snake person with six arm
4)   An alien being who has psionic powers or cybernetics.

You can play villains in Champions-- we've done it before. But I understand if Hero System is not your thing.

As mentioned upthread, Mutants and Masterminds is an excellent choice. First and second editions each have their strengths, but for newcomers I'd recommend 3rd edition, mostly since the SRD is online: https://www.d20herosrd.com/

Marvel FASERIP is a classic. Fast, fun, and simple: https://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/


Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on February 21, 2022, 04:11:57 AM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 20, 2022, 01:25:53 PM
I have played 6th Edition Champions and was wondering if there was a better superhero rpg than Champions.  I would like able also play as a villains in this superhero rpg unlike Champions.

Below are a few of type character I would be able play as.
1)   An Aquaman/Namor type character
2)   A gunslinger who has smoke-based attacks and the ability to turn into smoke and fly while in smoke form.  This gunslinger has to use items to protect himself from taking damage such as body armor or a force field belt.
3)   A human who is turned into a half human/half snake person with six arm
4)   An alien being who has psionic powers or cybernetics.

Having played Heroes/Champions for over 20 years, and recently Mutants and Masterminds, I was glad to get away from both of them with Sentinels Comics RPG.  All of those character concepts you listed are easily playable.  Being a villain or hero makes little difference to the system as it's more PC or NPC.  All powers are available and easily accessible.  The game is built around thematic and narrative structure first, and everything else comes next.  So if you want an Aquaman/Namor type you'd choose focus on the themes: swimmer, super strength, immortal.  Then you need to figure out your Powers and Abilities and how best to use them.   I could easily build those characters you listed, no problem.  Here's a character I made up for Sentinels...

Professor Mordoom, a retired villain who is immortal and returned from Hell to find out his investments paid off leaving him filthy rich but he was also legally dead (thought to be killed by his arch rival).  He could Fly, Teleport, Summon demons, open portals to Hell and Limbo (primarily to rearrange reality), casts spells of protection or curses, fire eldritch blasts, drain life, and had an alternate version of himself trapped in a demonic pole axe that he would torture to temporarily increase his power.  Since returning from Hell after several decades Mordoom's tenure as an evil professor was lost.  So he had to start over and worked part time at a community college teaching Occult History and Occult Conspiracies.  That's just a random character I rolled up, because the standard is random generation.  I rolled up those themes and then chose my Powers and Qualities, applying values to them, and cooked up a story around it.  We all did, and it was so much fun.

We've played two campaigns, both lasting over a year each, and both campaigns were wildly different.  The game system is VERY different from something like Heroes/Champions where small point values and large dice pools matter most.  It's closer to Marvel Super Heroes but the actual mechanics are better for GMs and campaign play.  Sentinels is always about the story first, and then you apply the dice, powers, and go from there.  You should check it out.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 21, 2022, 04:43:35 AM
Here it's probably important to ask you if you, the OP, is looking for something a bit simpler or about equally as complex/crunchy as Hero 6e.

If you are looking for something a bit lighter then you have options like Icons, BESM 4e, Savage Worlds with the new Super Powers Companion book just coming out, Marvel Heroic Roleplay, Cortex Prime, Smallville, and Marvel FASERIP (personally I think game is highly overrated, and has been killed by Ascendant for me), Sentinel Comics, to name a few.

If you want about the sname/similar in complexity than you can go with Mutants and Masterminds, Silver Age Sentinels, Ascendant (This game killed not only Marvel FASERIP but also MnM and DC Heroes), Champions 4e (aka the Big Blue Version and IMO the best version of Champions/Hero System), and Gurps with the Supers sourcebook, to name a few.

If you want comic book emulation than Marvel Heroic, Sentinel Comics and Ascendant do it and all 3 do it in different ways. The first two on the looser side whereas Ascendant nails the comic based physics of comic books, while having a task resolution system that's actually simpler than the others.

If you just want a middle of the pack game than Savage Worlds and Icons are solidly there.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Simon W on February 21, 2022, 05:57:42 AM
I'd recommend you look at either Triumphant! or Supers! The fact that I designed both of them is nothing to do with it at all. They're both brilliant (Triumphant! has the edge)
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: TheTechnomancer on February 21, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
I would like the RPG to be able to convert my Champions character into that RPG closely.  It does not have to be a 100% conversion, though.  I do like that in Mutants and Masterminds you can make a character immune to say all cold for five points.  I thought that the Champions RPG should have had that in the RPG. 
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: HappyDaze on February 21, 2022, 02:33:12 PM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 21, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
I do like that in Mutants and Masterminds you can make a character immune to say all cold for five points.

IIRC,

Immunity to environmental effects with the cold descriptor: 1 point.
Immunity to damage with the cold descriptor: 5 points.
Immunity to all effects with the cold descriptor: 10 points.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on February 21, 2022, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 21, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
I would like the RPG to be able to convert my Champions character into that RPG closely.
If you want a point-by-point conversion then Mutants & Masterminds is the RPG system for you.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 21, 2022, 06:20:06 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 21, 2022, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 21, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
I would like the RPG to be able to convert my Champions character into that RPG closely.
If you want a point-by-point conversion then Mutants & Masterminds is the RPG system for you.

Silver Age Sentinels, Ascendant, and Gurps with Supers can also do this pretty easily as well. Along with Mutants and Masterminds its a solid group of pretty good point character build rpgs.

There is a new edition of SAS on kickstarter right now, but it's titled Absolute Power and is going to be fully compatible with BESM 4e.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on February 21, 2022, 06:36:58 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 21, 2022, 06:20:06 PM
Silver Age Sentinels, Ascendant, and Gurps with Supers can also do this pretty easily as well. Along with Mutants and Masterminds its a solid group of pretty good point character build rpgs.
I've played a lot of GURPS, and I don't recommend it for anything.  I've played way too much GURPS and it's always lacking.  I haven't played Silver Age Sentinels in ages and I've never played Ascendant.

To be honest, I completely forgot about Aberrant.  That's not a bad system for super hero games.  Aberrant provides a good scheme for superhero archetypes.  The powers are easy to use.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: S'mon on February 21, 2022, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

It's definitely the new hotness on drivethru. Maybe Alex Macris the author/publisher will stop by to say if it is a good fit the for the OP.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RandyB on February 21, 2022, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2022, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

It's definitely the new hotness on drivethru. Maybe Alex Macris the author/publisher will stop by to say if it is a good fit the for the OP.

He just did.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 22, 2022, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 21, 2022, 06:36:58 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 21, 2022, 06:20:06 PM
Silver Age Sentinels, Ascendant, and Gurps with Supers can also do this pretty easily as well. Along with Mutants and Masterminds its a solid group of pretty good point character build rpgs.
I've played a lot of GURPS, and I don't recommend it for anything.  I've played way too much GURPS and it's always lacking.  I haven't played Silver Age Sentinels in ages and I've never played Ascendant.

To be honest, I completely forgot about Aberrant.  That's not a bad system for super hero games.  Aberrant provides a good scheme for superhero archetypes.  The powers are easy to use.

I totally forgot about Aberrant. Are you talking about the original or the new one that uses the Trinity Continuum Storypath rules? Either way, the setting of Aberrant is fantastic. Easily one of the better rpg settings to steal from if you need some cool power ideas for characters regardless of what game you're playing.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: S'mon on February 22, 2022, 02:49:44 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 21, 2022, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 21, 2022, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

It's definitely the new hotness on drivethru. Maybe Alex Macris the author/publisher will stop by to say if it is a good fit the for the OP.

He just did.

Ah right, missed #511  :-[ ;D
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: jhkim on February 22, 2022, 10:03:00 PM
I just tried out Prowlers & Paragons this weekend at DunDraCon, playing a game run by author Sean Patrick Fannon.

QuoteEvolved from 2013's beloved Prowlers & Paragons game (found on several Top Ten lists of supers games), Prowlers & Paragons Ultimate Edition is Len Pimentel's (Hughesville High, TNT, Six-Gun Fury) masterwork, with extensive design support from Sean Patrick Fannon (Freedom Squadron, Savage Rifts, High Tech Enemies, The Mutant File). The two of them love superhero gaming, and you will love what they've done with this system.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/346742/Prowlers--Paragons-Ultimate-Edition

I didn't end up buying it, but it might be to some other people's tastes. It leans towards the story-centric mechanics of games like FATE or Powered-by-the-Apocalypse, but with some more crunch in powers.


I find the personally, I prefer more one side or the other rather than a medium. I also played "Masks: A New Generation" at DunDraCon which is PbtA and is now one of my favorite PbtA games.

https://magpiegames.com/pages/masks

On the crunchier side, I think I prefer Champions or Savage Worlds (though I've never used Savage Worlds for supers).
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on February 23, 2022, 07:36:18 AM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 22, 2022, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 21, 2022, 06:36:58 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 21, 2022, 06:20:06 PM
Silver Age Sentinels, Ascendant, and Gurps with Supers can also do this pretty easily as well. Along with Mutants and Masterminds its a solid group of pretty good point character build rpgs.
I've played a lot of GURPS, and I don't recommend it for anything.  I've played way too much GURPS and it's always lacking.  I haven't played Silver Age Sentinels in ages and I've never played Ascendant.

To be honest, I completely forgot about Aberrant.  That's not a bad system for super hero games.  Aberrant provides a good scheme for superhero archetypes.  The powers are easy to use.

I totally forgot about Aberrant. Are you talking about the original or the new one that uses the Trinity Continuum Storypath rules? Either way, the setting of Aberrant is fantastic. Easily one of the better rpg settings to steal from if you need some cool power ideas for characters regardless of what game you're playing.

The original one from White Wolf.  At the time we were coming off of a Werewolf the Apocalypse game so it was natural to try something from the same company.  It was similar but different.  Thinking back I'd probably avoid it as there are better systems.  A while back we played Brave New World after seeing The Watchmen in theaters.  The DM had a similar campaign where everyone was fairly "normal" but powerful.  There were only a few actual Super Heroes, and we weren't them.  It was a lot of fun, and a lot more flexible than Aberrant.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: TheTechnomancer on February 23, 2022, 01:14:17 PM
A problem I see with find another super hero rpg is that when I go to convert my characters to that system it will need to be able to convert most of my skills that my Champions characters have.  I have notice that I might not be able to convert my Champions characters to Mutants and Mastermind due to the fact that most of their skills might not covert well to Mutants and Masterminds.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 23, 2022, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 23, 2022, 01:14:17 PM
A problem I see with find another super hero rpg is that when I go to convert my characters to that system it will need to be able to convert most of my skills that my Champions characters have.  I have notice that I might not be able to convert my Champions characters to Mutants and Mastermind due to the fact that most of their skills might not covert well to Mutants and Masterminds.

Let me see if I got this : You want an RPG that's not Champions but that is Champions. Is that it?

Champions is different enough that I doubt you will find an RPG that can use your already existent characters as is. Maybe GURPS?
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: jhkim on February 23, 2022, 01:51:33 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 23, 2022, 07:36:18 AM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 22, 2022, 12:23:22 AM
I totally forgot about Aberrant. Are you talking about the original or the new one that uses the Trinity Continuum Storypath rules? Either way, the setting of Aberrant is fantastic. Easily one of the better rpg settings to steal from if you need some cool power ideas for characters regardless of what game you're playing.

The original one from White Wolf.  At the time we were coming off of a Werewolf the Apocalypse game so it was natural to try something from the same company.  It was similar but different.  Thinking back I'd probably avoid it as there are better systems.  A while back we played Brave New World after seeing The Watchmen in theaters.  The DM had a similar campaign where everyone was fairly "normal" but powerful.  There were only a few actual Super Heroes, and we weren't them.  It was a lot of fun, and a lot more flexible than Aberrant.

Yeah, the original Aberrant had some intriguing ideas, but it was terrible in execution. The most striking to me was how they failed to excise the Champions text. There were several powers that were renamed from Champions - but they didn't track down all the references, so the other text still refers to the "Growth", "Clinging", "Life Support", and "Psychic Link" powers. Those are all names of Champions powers, but they don't exist in Aberrant - which instead has "Sizemorph: Grow", "Adhesive Grip", and "Adaptability".
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: rgalex on February 23, 2022, 02:21:52 PM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 23, 2022, 01:14:17 PM
A problem I see with find another super hero rpg is that when I go to convert my characters to that system it will need to be able to convert most of my skills that my Champions characters have.  I have notice that I might not be able to convert my Champions characters to Mutants and Mastermind due to the fact that most of their skills might not covert well to Mutants and Masterminds.

Could you give us an example or two of things you think may not convert well?

I've had players claim they couldn't convert something but it was because they got stuck thinking in the original system's terms/rules and not the new system they were converting to.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: TheTechnomancer on February 23, 2022, 03:05:35 PM
A lot of my characters have a good amount of points used towards skills in Champions and I am not sure how will convert well to another system.  I have a gadgeteer who has one hundred and eleven points in spent on skills with with fourteen skills being science skills.

Another one would be the fact that some of my characters in Champions have a good amount of points spent on life support powers. 

I am also worried about how my characters in Champions who know a Martial Arts or two will convert to another systems.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Chris24601 on February 23, 2022, 04:23:11 PM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on February 23, 2022, 03:05:35 PM
A lot of my characters have a good amount of points used towards skills in Champions and I am not sure how will convert well to another system.  I have a gadgeteer who has one hundred and eleven points in spent on skills with with fourteen skills being science skills.

Another one would be the fact that some of my characters in Champions have a good amount of points spent on life support powers. 

I am also worried about how my characters in Champions who know a Martial Arts or two will convert to another systems.
In Mutants & Masterminds, life support is under immunity and science would be various specializations of the Expertise or Profession skill (basically a "build your own skill" for categories the basic skill list doesn't cover.

Similarly, Martial Arts techniques fall under either feats or are special effects for powers (like Champions, M&M is an entirely effects-based system... you build the mechanics and then wrap special effects around them).

M&M is about as close as you're going to get to Champions... right down to how you build the powers with equivalents to Champion's multipliers and dividers (though M&M calculates them slightly differently).
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 12:27:06 AM
I still say Gurps 4e with the Supers and Martial Arts sourcebooks would be the way to go if the goal is to have as much freedom of customization possible.

The one other game system I don't think mentioned yet that has some pretty cool options is Heroes Unlimited. To get the full martial arts options then the book Ninja's and Superspies would also be needed. It's definitely old school in its design approach, but you'll get characters from the options of this game like you wouldn't get anywhere else. Especially if the Powers Unlimited books are used. This game will give you some very cool character ideas.

As for Mutants and Masterminds goes, I think it's important to say that this is a d20 system derived game. It uses the standard d20 Stats (3e does switch this up a little), uses Feats, uses Power Level as a metric of game balance and keeping the party within the same power grouping, does use the standard d20 model of how skills work, etc. If the OP likes the d20 system, than Mutants and Masterminds is a pretty good option. I'd suggest Deeds, Not Words for a different d20 supers rpg, but that one is out of print.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on February 24, 2022, 01:57:59 AM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 12:27:06 AM
I still say Gurps 4e with the Supers and Martial Arts sourcebooks would be the way to go if the goal is to have as much freedom of customization possible.

The one other game system I don't think mentioned yet that has some pretty cool options is Heroes Unlimited. To get the full martial arts options then the book Ninja's and Superspies would also be needed. It's definitely old school in its design approach, but you'll get characters from the options of this game like you wouldn't get anywhere else. Especially if the Powers Unlimited books are used. This game will give you some very cool character ideas.

As for Mutants and Masterminds goes, I think it's important to say that this is a d20 system derived game. It uses the standard d20 Stats (3e does switch this up a little), uses Feats, uses Power Level as a metric of game balance and keeping the party within the same power grouping, does use the standard d20 model of how skills work, etc. If the OP likes the d20 system, than Mutants and Masterminds is a pretty good option. I'd suggest Deeds, Not Words for a different d20 supers rpg, but that one is out of print.

Lots of great memories there.  I will say this: do NOT allow someone to play an "Ancient Master" using the Dark Chi powers in Ninjas and Superspies.  You'll end up with thousands of Chi points and Dim Mak at level 1.  It's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on February 24, 2022, 09:14:07 AM
G-Core X is based of the old Marvel system with tweaks. It's actually really good.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 01:33:55 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 24, 2022, 09:14:07 AM
G-Core X is based of the old Marvel system with tweaks. It's actually really good.

It's solid except the art is atrocious. The adaptations to the old Marvel system are pretty decent and if TSR Marvel ever had a 2nd edition, this would be a book to look at for the foundation of that theoretical 2nd edition.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 24, 2022, 01:57:59 AM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 12:27:06 AM
I still say Gurps 4e with the Supers and Martial Arts sourcebooks would be the way to go if the goal is to have as much freedom of customization possible.

The one other game system I don't think mentioned yet that has some pretty cool options is Heroes Unlimited. To get the full martial arts options then the book Ninja's and Superspies would also be needed. It's definitely old school in its design approach, but you'll get characters from the options of this game like you wouldn't get anywhere else. Especially if the Powers Unlimited books are used. This game will give you some very cool character ideas.

As for Mutants and Masterminds goes, I think it's important to say that this is a d20 system derived game. It uses the standard d20 Stats (3e does switch this up a little), uses Feats, uses Power Level as a metric of game balance and keeping the party within the same power grouping, does use the standard d20 model of how skills work, etc. If the OP likes the d20 system, than Mutants and Masterminds is a pretty good option. I'd suggest Deeds, Not Words for a different d20 supers rpg, but that one is out of print.

Lots of great memories there.  I will say this: do NOT allow someone to play an "Ancient Master" using the Dark Chi powers in Ninjas and Superspies.  You'll end up with thousands of Chi points and Dim Mak at level 1.  It's ridiculous.

I think the classes like the Crazy Hero and the Ancient Master need to be relegated into a different sourcebook of [Working Title] "Here are some character class options that you crazy GM's could allow your players to play but beware of infinite shenanigans and bizarre game imbalance." Or just shuffle the Ancient Master off to a new sourcebook for Ninja's and Superspies because this class would work if you're ever playing in a game using Mystic China.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on February 24, 2022, 01:37:39 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 01:33:55 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 24, 2022, 09:14:07 AM
G-Core X is based of the old Marvel system with tweaks. It's actually really good.

It's solid except the art is atrocious. The adaptations to the old Marvel system are pretty decent and if TSR Marvel ever had a 2nd edition, this would be a book to look at for the foundation of that theoretical 2nd edition.

Yeah mate, it's fantastic but as you say the art is poo.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 01:56:41 PM
After seeing the Invulnerable game mentioned above I shuffled off to drivethrurpg, spent $4.99 on the pdf, and holy wow is this game neat. For a 5 buck pdf you get a supers game that's 380 pages, with decent interior artwork (cover art is not that good, but art is subjective). It's definitely a Marvel Universe heartbreaker, with some interesting names for organizations, factions, and characters.

And it is customizable, from scanning the book.

Characters are built on the idea of Awesomeness Level, which is equivalent to Power Level in many other games. This ranges from 1 to 10. Average 4 Colors Supers is Awesomeness Level 4 to 5 in this game. Street Level is AL 2 to 3, if that says anything.

Then you pick a Motivation, Origin, Attributes (the number of points based on Awesomeness Level of PC), Powers (Powers Build Points based on Origin), Talents (points based on AL), Weaknesses (every PC gets them), Assets, Equipment, and then Finishing Touches.

Note about this game...
Origins is the How did you get your Powers option. You can pick any number of Origins from 1 to your Awesomeness Level, so you're not locked into just one. Each has some Attribute Bonuses, what kind of Power Source and Power Type is allowed through it, Build Points for Powers, bonuses to Talents and inherent Weaknesses. They are Templates.

Powers are clusters of Enhancements. So it's like if you have the Power - Absorption, the Absorption power has these Enhancements - Absorb Energy, Absorb Impact, Absorption Boost, and Improved Absorb Impact.

Talents are the equivalent of Skills and Feats in other games, merged together. This is where you pick non-Powered options, like Martial Arts and all it's wonderful selection of Marksman and Martial Arts maneuvers.

...

For people who loves customization, this game seems like it could be your jam. Obviously I haven't played it so I don't know how well it plays, but for people who love to tinker, customize, hack and create characters that provide you the build points to build what you want, this game seems solidly within that group.

An rpg Champions players should at least consider. Plus for 5 bucks as a pdf, it's not expensive.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: tenbones on February 25, 2022, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 24, 2022, 01:33:55 PM
It's solid except the art is atrocious. The adaptations to the old Marvel system are pretty decent and if TSR Marvel ever had a 2nd edition, this would be a book to look at for the foundation of that theoretical 2nd edition.

/broken record

MSH has a pretty active community that has effectively made many renditions/additions and general content to MSH that it effectively is as good as anything ever produced by TSR. It's rather amazing. If you haven't looked - go check out Classic Marvel Forever (https://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/), just go to the Resources Tab and go wild. The Facebook group is producing *stellar* material including complete re-works of the core Players and Judges book and the Ultimate Powers book. TONS of adventures, including updated gazetteers of different aspects of the Marvel Universe. And it's all free - made by players that love MSH, for players that love MSH.

(https://i.imgur.com/LONVUzr.jpg)


If MSH isn't a thing for you - Savage Worlds just dropped their new SWADE Supers Companion. It's pretty sweet, I'm still digesting it, and looking forward to dropping Supers into Savage Rifts.

Otherwise my recommendations would be Mutant's and Masterminds 3e.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on February 25, 2022, 10:01:43 AM
Quote from: tenbones on February 25, 2022, 09:51:37 AM
Savage Worlds just dropped their new SWADE Supers Companion. It's pretty sweet, I'm still digesting it, and looking forward to dropping Supers into Savage Rifts.


I only just bought this. I've not had a chance to read it yet, however. But I'm sure it's going to be decent at the very least.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 25, 2022, 10:45:17 PM
Quote from: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.

Yes. There is even a plushie manatee available.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: I on February 27, 2022, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 25, 2022, 10:45:17 PM
Quote from: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.

Yes. There is even a plushie manatee available.

Excellent.  This is the only superhero RPG that has caught my eye in a while.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on February 27, 2022, 06:02:13 PM
Quote from: I on February 27, 2022, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 25, 2022, 10:45:17 PM
Quote from: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.

Yes. There is even a plushie manatee available.

Excellent.  This is the only superhero RPG that has caught my eye in a while.

He's putting out a black and white version of the book with and without art so people can choose to get a version of the book of they can't handle the 90s Image Comics-like sexualized artwork. I think Alex may even be doing a version of the book with all different artwork that's still comic book but not as hypersexualized... more family-friendly artwork I guess.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: HappyDaze on February 28, 2022, 01:09:50 AM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 27, 2022, 06:02:13 PM
Quote from: I on February 27, 2022, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 25, 2022, 10:45:17 PM
Quote from: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.

Yes. There is even a plushie manatee available.

Excellent.  This is the only superhero RPG that has caught my eye in a while.

He's putting out a black and white version of the book with and without art so people can choose to get a version of the book of they can't handle the 90s Image Comics-like sexualized artwork. I think Alex may even be doing a version of the book with all different artwork that's still comic book but not as hypersexualized... more family-friendly artwork I guess.
So he's going to use sensitivity readers for the art? Green no longer then, eh?
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: KingAlbert on February 28, 2022, 01:23:28 AM
I've played lots of Champions in the past and am now in a Prowlers & Paragons campaign. To me, it's a much more streamlined game, medium complexity. Even though it's simpler as a practical matter a lot of character ideas that are classic Supers characters can be hard to do in Champions but can be easy in P&P. I certainly would recommend it.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on February 28, 2022, 01:33:17 AM
Quote from: tenbones on February 25, 2022, 09:51:37 AM

MSH has a pretty active community that has effectively made many renditions/additions and general content to MSH that it effectively is as good as anything ever produced by TSR. It's rather amazing. If you haven't looked - go check out Classic Marvel Forever (https://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/), just go to the Resources Tab and go wild. The Facebook group is producing *stellar* material including complete re-works of the core Players and Judges book and the Ultimate Powers book. TONS of adventures, including updated gazetteers of different aspects of the Marvel Universe. And it's all free - made by players that love MSH, for players that love MSH.


Woah!  I forgot that site existed!  About 12 or 13 years ago an old friend, who sadly had to move, ran a MSH game and we were using that site as a resource.  So much good stuff!
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: amacris on February 28, 2022, 03:24:10 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on February 28, 2022, 01:09:50 AM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 27, 2022, 06:02:13 PM
Quote from: I on February 27, 2022, 04:31:28 PM
Quote from: RebelSky on February 25, 2022, 10:45:17 PM
Quote from: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.

Yes. There is even a plushie manatee available.

Excellent.  This is the only superhero RPG that has caught my eye in a while.

He's putting out a black and white version of the book with and without art so people can choose to get a version of the book of they can't handle the 90s Image Comics-like sexualized artwork. I think Alex may even be doing a version of the book with all different artwork that's still comic book but not as hypersexualized... more family-friendly artwork I guess.
So he's going to use sensitivity readers for the art? Green no longer then, eh?

Hah! I believe there should be products for everybody, but not everybody needs to like every product. Products can and should target audiences based on their creator's preference or market assessment. People are diverse -- meaning they don't want or like the same things -- there will be and should be products that some people love that others hate. It's a good thing. I love sexy 90s Image Comics art. Based on sales of Ascendant, apparently lots of other people love it too. Or apparently people love logarithms. Or maybe it's a unique combination of sex and math.

As far as the new version -- let us not get ahead of ourselves. I have several projects in the pipeline for 2022 already and that is not one of them. However, it is true that a fair number of ACKS and Ascendant players are parents of children that are about the age to start playing RPGs. Several have mentioned that they'd like a version of Ascendant with the complexity of the old FASERIP. So I'm exploring the idea for 2023 of publishing a simplified version of the rulebook with art work inspired by the Animated Universes of DC, because that art style is aimed at that age range. The idea would be an entry-level product for younger gamers, similar to how BX/BECMI aimed at younger gamers than AD&D. Whether I do that will depend on the continued success of the game.

In the meantime, my upcoming graphic novel doubles down on the art style of Ascendant, so you can rest easy in that regard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB_QMDQKxFk
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: amacris on February 28, 2022, 03:28:00 AM
Quote from: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.

To avoid buyer's remorse, I must warn you that the core rules do not provide game statistics for capybaras or opossums. You could play an Ascended African lion, Bat, Bengal Tiger, Bloodhound, Blue Whale, Bottlenose Dolphin, Cheetah, Chimp, Cockroach, Cougar, Crocodile, Draft Horse, Eagle, Electric Eel, Elephant, Giant Anaconda, Giant Python, Giant Squid, Gorilla, Great Horned Owl, Great White Shark, Grey Wolf, Grizzly Bear, Honey Badger, King Cobra, Manatee, Mastiff, Mimic Octopus, Peregrine Falcon, and Riding Horse.

I regret that I did not have time to include capybaras or possums, but the volcano rules took up a lot of space...


Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Eirikrautha on February 28, 2022, 06:47:49 AM
Quote from: amacris on February 28, 2022, 03:28:00 AM
Quote from: I on February 25, 2022, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: amacris on February 20, 2022, 09:27:26 PM
You should give ASCENDANT a try. A fair number of people from the Champions community are enjoying it.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/350750/Ascendant?src=hottest

Is this the game where you can play an Ascended manatee?  I'd like to play an ascended capybara or Virginia opossum.  Not sure what good they'd be in a fight, but still... the idea calls to me.

To avoid buyer's remorse, I must warn you that the core rules do not provide game statistics for capybaras or opossums. You could play an Ascended African lion, Bat, Bengal Tiger, Bloodhound, Blue Whale, Bottlenose Dolphin, Cheetah, Chimp, Cockroach, Cougar, Crocodile, Draft Horse, Eagle, Electric Eel, Elephant, Giant Anaconda, Giant Python, Giant Squid, Gorilla, Great Horned Owl, Great White Shark, Grey Wolf, Grizzly Bear, Honey Badger, King Cobra, Manatee, Mastiff, Mimic Octopus, Peregrine Falcon, and Riding Horse.

I regret that I did not have time to include capybaras or possums, but the volcano rules took up a lot of space...
I see a manatee, but not a Huge Manatee.  How disappointing!

;)
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: I on February 28, 2022, 10:49:42 AM
Thanks for the warning.  That's a pretty good assortment, anyway.  Maybe possums and capybaras for a later edition?  And while you're at it, maybe an ascended Maine Coon?
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: tenbones on February 28, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 28, 2022, 01:33:17 AM
Woah!  I forgot that site existed!  About 12 or 13 years ago an old friend, who sadly had to move, ran a MSH game and we were using that site as a resource.  So much good stuff!

It's still going strong. In fact, with the Facebook community plugged into it, I'd say it's one of the best and most actively supported supers TTRPG out there.

And the quality is generally... Amazing(50) at least.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Armchair Gamer on February 28, 2022, 02:14:11 PM
Quote from: I on February 28, 2022, 10:49:42 AM
Thanks for the warning.  That's a pretty good assortment, anyway.  Maybe possums and capybaras for a later edition?  And while you're at it, maybe an ascended Maine Coon?

  Ascended Maine Coons risk impinging on David Weber's treecats. :)
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: palaeomerus on February 28, 2022, 06:07:28 PM
Quote from: tenbones on February 28, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 28, 2022, 01:33:17 AM
Woah!  I forgot that site existed!  About 12 or 13 years ago an old friend, who sadly had to move, ran a MSH game and we were using that site as a resource.  So much good stuff!

It's still going strong. In fact, with the Facebook community plugged into it, I'd say it's one of the best and most actively supported supers TTRPG out there.

And the quality is generally... Amazing(50) at least.

Incredible! Or at the very least remarkable.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on March 01, 2022, 01:08:03 AM
Quote from: palaeomerus on February 28, 2022, 06:07:28 PM
Quote from: tenbones on February 28, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 28, 2022, 01:33:17 AM
Woah!  I forgot that site existed!  About 12 or 13 years ago an old friend, who sadly had to move, ran a MSH game and we were using that site as a resource.  So much good stuff!

It's still going strong. In fact, with the Facebook community plugged into it, I'd say it's one of the best and most actively supported supers TTRPG out there.

And the quality is generally... Amazing(50) at least.
Incredible! Or at the very least remarkable.
Poor(4) choice of words.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on March 01, 2022, 01:09:07 AM
Quote from: tenbones on February 28, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 28, 2022, 01:33:17 AM
Woah!  I forgot that site existed!  About 12 or 13 years ago an old friend, who sadly had to move, ran a MSH game and we were using that site as a resource.  So much good stuff!

It's still going strong. In fact, with the Facebook community plugged into it, I'd say it's one of the best and most actively supported supers TTRPG out there.

And the quality is generally... Amazing(50) at least.
Excellent(20)!  I'll have to log on to Facebook for the first time in forever check it out.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Lynn on March 01, 2022, 02:19:04 AM
The S 5e (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sigil/s5e-superheroic-roleplaying-for-5th-edition/description) core book arrived on PDF to those that backed the Kickstarter. I looks exactly what it sounds like. I just got it moments ago so I can't say much more than that.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: tenbones on March 01, 2022, 10:41:22 AM
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 01, 2022, 01:09:07 AM
Quote from: tenbones on February 28, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on February 28, 2022, 01:33:17 AM
Woah!  I forgot that site existed!  About 12 or 13 years ago an old friend, who sadly had to move, ran a MSH game and we were using that site as a resource.  So much good stuff!

It's still going strong. In fact, with the Facebook community plugged into it, I'd say it's one of the best and most actively supported supers TTRPG out there.

And the quality is generally... Amazing(50) at least.
Excellent(20)!  I'll have to log on to Facebook for the first time in forever check it out.

Our Feeble(2) attempts at humor shouldn't lead you to the Monstrous(75) decision to log into Facebook if you want the new materials. Most of that stuff is re-posted on the CMF website. Of course if you want community feedback and talking shop, go for it.

Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: palaeomerus on March 01, 2022, 05:40:15 PM
I can't make the class 1000 gag work. Sorry guys. I just ain't up to it.  :(
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Batjon on March 02, 2022, 06:14:39 PM
Have you looked at Absolute Power? It is on Kickstarter right now and is Silver Age Sentinels 2e.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dyskami/absolute-power-superhero-role-playing-game-2-volume-set?ref=user_menu (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dyskami/absolute-power-superhero-role-playing-game-2-volume-set?ref=user_menu)
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Thor's Nads on March 03, 2022, 01:59:26 AM
You'll enjoy Guardians

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/172576/Guardians

Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Rob Necronomicon on March 04, 2022, 07:22:12 AM
Quote from: thomden on March 03, 2022, 01:59:26 AM
You'll enjoy Guardians

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/172576/Guardians

Anything by Night Owl Workshop is worth getting.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: RebelSky on March 08, 2022, 12:43:22 AM
Quote from: Lynn on March 01, 2022, 02:19:04 AM
The S 5e (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sigil/s5e-superheroic-roleplaying-for-5th-edition/description) core book arrived on PDF to those that backed the Kickstarter. I looks exactly what it sounds like. I just got it moments ago so I can't say much more than that.

If you can, and are willing to, give a quick rundown on this game I'd be appreciative. I'm curious to know if it is designed to be fully compatible with 5e or if the designers made the game to be its own game and only uses the Basic D&D 5e chassis (and by that extension if it requires someone to use the D&D PHB or not?).
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: TheTechnomancer on March 15, 2022, 03:00:47 PM
What RPGS handle immunities to damage such as a fire elemental being immune to fire well?
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: AtomicPope on March 15, 2022, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on March 15, 2022, 03:00:47 PM
What RPGS handle immunities to damage such as a fire elemental being immune to fire well?

Off the top of my head, from what I've played:
Palladium
Godlike (one roll system)
Aberrant (white wolf)
Mutants and Masterminds (d20)
Sentinels (which is a new game, and so far my fav since Marvel Super Heroes)


Most games are like Marvel SH where there is an increased resistance.  In Marvel an "immunity" to fire is a resistance to fire that is so high (Class 1000), that you can walk on the surface of the sun.  For a fire to be hotter than the sun it would incinerate the solar system.  Marvel classifies that as "immunity" because it's a resistance that's higher than a standard campaign could endure.
Title: Re: Looking For New Superhero RPG
Post by: Chris24601 on March 16, 2022, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: TheTechnomancer on March 15, 2022, 03:00:47 PM
What RPGS handle immunities to damage such as a fire elemental being immune to fire well?
Mutants & Masterminds handles it with its immunity power. I believe immunity to heat/fire special effects is 10 points (out of a typically 150 point build).

By contrast, immunity to all attacks that are resisted with toughness is a 50 point power (leaving you still open to effects resisted with Fort and Will which would take another 100 points to get... making you an unskilled person with barely average ability scores who's impervious to everything except special powers that don't target normal defenses).

So, yeah, a specific immunity like that is easy to do in the system, but is scaled in such a way that any sort of broad immunity is going to be a really significant part of your character concept.