So, I'm looking into options for a next campaign to run, and I think I want to do something in the vein of the Dying Earth genre. I.e., a setting wherein science fiction civilization has risen and fallen (perhaps several times), with the result that the world has collapsed back into something more like a fantasy setting, but with a sort of underlying substratum of sci-fi. As of this moment, my top contenders are:
Hawkmoon (either the Chaosium or Mongoose versions)
GURPS Book of the New Sun (which I'm considering converting to SWADE)
Dying Earth official RPG (Which again, I would probably convert for another system)
Other options I'm aware of, but for various reasons not really considering, include:
Numenera
Hyperborea
Worlds Without Number
Empire of the Petal Throne
The Vampire Hunter D supplement for Pathfinder 1
The Zothique supplement for D20
I'm also aware that a lot of OSR games like Fantastic Heroes and Witchery include science fantasy options, but if possible I would prefer something with a setting built in.
So what do y'all think? Are there games in the genre out there that I'm missing? Am I sleeping on something good that I already know about? I would think with what a popular literary genre it is, and with how influential Vance was on D&D, there'd be more games explicitly set in Dying-Earth-type settings.
EDIT: Made a correction regarding the Zothique supplement.
Goodman Games has a Dying Earth game for DCC coming out soon. Not sure if that does what you want, as it's basically OSR. The pre-release materials look good and they are planning a dozen or so modules.
Hyperborea is a lot of fun and is essentially a mildly house-ruled version of 1e AD&D. The new third edition books have added a gazetteer so there's a ready made world. You could easily do a Dying Earth style campaign, though it leans a bit more into fantasy than sci-fi. A bit more Clark Ashton Smith than Jack Vance. Could depend on your like or dislike of 1e mechanics.
And I agree with Finarvyn that the forthcoming DCC version of Dying Earth looks good from the previews we KS backers have seen. It will likely be released to the public in a couple months.
Quote from: Persimmon on September 05, 2022, 09:17:54 PM
Hyperborea is a lot of fun and is essentially a mildly house-ruled version of 1e AD&D. The new third edition books have added a gazetteer so there's a ready made world. You could easily do a Dying Earth style campaign, though it leans a bit more into fantasy than sci-fi. A bit more Clark Ashton Smith than Jack Vance. Could depend on your like or dislike of 1e mechanics.
And I agree with Finarvyn that the forthcoming DCC version of Dying Earth looks good from the previews we KS backers have seen. It will likely be released to the public in a couple months.
Hyperborea is a great game, for sure. You're right though that its tone is too much in the "classic D&D fantasy" vein for what I'm looking for. Plus, the group I mostly play with has two Hyperborea campaigns going already.
Talislanta? I've never played it, but did read much of it a while back and it seems to be in the same vein.
Quote from: finarvyn on September 05, 2022, 06:42:19 PM
Goodman Games has a Dying Earth game for DCC coming out soon. Not sure if that does what you want, as it's basically OSR. The pre-release materials look good and they are planning a dozen or so modules.
Thanks! I'm not sure if I want to just run D&D on the dying earth, but I'll check it out when it appears.
Quote from: rytrasmi on September 05, 2022, 10:00:23 PM
Talislanta? I've never played it, but did read much of it a while back and it seems to be in the same vein.
Never even heard of it. Neat looking game, and the author has made all the pdfs available for free on his website. Thanks. Even if I don't end up using it, I always like finding a new RPG I didn't know about.
Cascade Failure (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/96589) is a completely free game built off the d20 OGL, but very striped down to the point it's almost unrecognizable. It's still very rooted in SciFi, and only "medieval-esque" in the sense that the characters need to relearn how to use the technology they find.
The only complaint I have is that the lore/fluff is mind-numbingly contrived. You'll probably want to homebrew some better explanations about how things went to shit, since the official version is not very coherent. But, hey! What do you expect for free?
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 05, 2022, 10:20:35 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on September 05, 2022, 10:00:23 PM
Talislanta? I've never played it, but did read much of it a while back and it seems to be in the same vein.
Never even heard of it. Neat looking game, and the author has made all the pdfs available for free on his website. Thanks. Even if I don't end up using it, I always like finding a new RPG I didn't know about.
Morrigan Press released a generic system book based on the Talislanta rules set. It's called The Omni System.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2862/The-Omni-System?term=The+Omni+Sy (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2862/The-Omni-System?term=The+Omni+Sy)
Quote from: Effete on September 05, 2022, 10:37:39 PM
Cascade Failure (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/96589) is a completely free game built off the d20 OGL, but very striped down to the point it's almost unrecognizable. It's still very rooted in SciFi, and only "medieval-esque" in the sense that the characters need to relearn how to use the technology they find.
The only complaint I have is that the lore/fluff is mind-numbingly contrived. You'll probably want to homebrew some better explanations about how things went to shit, since the official version is not very coherent. But, hey! What do you expect for free?
Free is always worth checking out. :D
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 06, 2022, 08:04:32 AM
Quote from: Effete on September 05, 2022, 10:37:39 PM
Cascade Failure (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/96589) is a completely free game built off the d20 OGL, but very striped down to the point it's almost unrecognizable. It's still very rooted in SciFi, and only "medieval-esque" in the sense that the characters need to relearn how to use the technology they find.
The only complaint I have is that the lore/fluff is mind-numbingly contrived. You'll probably want to homebrew some better explanations about how things went to shit, since the official version is not very coherent. But, hey! What do you expect for free?
Free is always worth checking out. :D
I wish that was true. More often than not, you get what you pay for.
Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 06, 2022, 09:45:22 AM
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 06, 2022, 08:04:32 AM
Free is always worth checking out. :D
I wish that was true. More often than not, you get what you pay for.
Hey, look! Free advice.
Quote from: Effete on September 06, 2022, 09:51:55 AM
Hey, look! Free advice.
I didn't suggest any course of action, so hard to say that's advice. Maybe 'be prepared to be disappointed' in you squint hard enough. But let's make it advice so you can choose to ignore it:
Time is a precious commodity, and lots of free things are free because they're worthless. Having criteria that allow you to quickly evaluate whether a free offering is worth looking into
yourself is worthwhile. Maybe that means trusting a reviewer that you've agreed with more often than not, or giving a quick scan over what it claims to be offering. But hey, that's good advice for things that people want money for, too.
Quote from: deadDMwalking on September 06, 2022, 10:02:04 AM
Quote from: Effete on September 06, 2022, 09:51:55 AM
Hey, look! Free advice.
I didn't suggest any course of action, so hard to say that's advice. Maybe 'be prepared to be disappointed' in you squint hard enough. But let's make it advice so you can choose to ignore it:
Time is a precious commodity, and lots of free things are free because they're worthless. Having criteria that allow you to quickly evaluate whether a free offering is worth looking into yourself is worthwhile. Maybe that means trusting a reviewer that you've agreed with more often than not, or giving a quick scan over what it claims to be offering. But hey, that's good advice for things that people want money for, too.
You don't have to post, you know. It's not like there's a quota. Your initial Debbie Downer comment was pointless. This thread is not about how you are disappointed with free things. Find something to cheer yourself up or take your gray and gloomy outlook elsewhere.
You could look at Mutant Future for inspirations. The wiki mentions Dying Earth explicitly: https://mutant-future.fandom.com/wiki/Gaming_Philosophy#Dying_Earth
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 05, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
So, I'm looking into options for a next campaign to run, and I think I want to do something in the vein of the Dying Earth genre. I.e., a setting wherein science fiction civilization has risen and fallen (perhaps several times), with the result that the world has collapsed back into something more like a fantasy setting, but with a sort of underlying substratum of sci-fi. As of this moment, my top contenders are:
Hawkmoon (either the Chaosium or Mongoose versions)
If you're open to Runequest/BRP you might look at
The Chronicles of Future Earth. While there is a very late KS for a FATE version the original was a BRP book. Sadly, it appears to be out of print.
Check out Faded Suns. Scifi RPG with medieval overtones and some good ideas about basic resolutions.
Quote from: caldrail on September 07, 2022, 10:44:20 AM
Check out Faded Suns. Scifi RPG with medieval overtones and some good ideas about basic resolutions.
I hadn't thought of Fading Suns. I always read it as "D&D meets
Dune" but I can see how it might work for a Dying Sun Science Fantasy game.
I think the presence of common interstellar travel is why I blocked it off.
Not a poblem, just do without space travel and use the other elements instead
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 06, 2022, 08:04:32 AM
Quote from: Effete on September 05, 2022, 10:37:39 PM
Cascade Failure (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/96589) is a completely free game built off the d20 OGL, but very striped down to the point it's almost unrecognizable. It's still very rooted in SciFi, and only "medieval-esque" in the sense that the characters need to relearn how to use the technology they find.
The only complaint I have is that the lore/fluff is mind-numbingly contrived. You'll probably want to homebrew some better explanations about how things went to shit, since the official version is not very coherent. But, hey! What do you expect for free?
Free is always worth checking out. :D
Highly recommend you checking it out. Its system is fantastic. All the editions are solid. It never really took hold because of the setting was "too weird" for people. But I've converted people to loving it for decades at my own table. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have -shoot me a DM
(Bias alert as I'm associated with the last iteration of the setting but I swear I'm being objective /wink).
Quote from: tenbones on September 07, 2022, 02:16:33 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 06, 2022, 08:04:32 AM
Quote from: Effete on September 05, 2022, 10:37:39 PM
Cascade Failure (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/96589) is a completely free game built off the d20 OGL, but very striped down to the point it's almost unrecognizable. It's still very rooted in SciFi, and only "medieval-esque" in the sense that the characters need to relearn how to use the technology they find.
The only complaint I have is that the lore/fluff is mind-numbingly contrived. You'll probably want to homebrew some better explanations about how things went to shit, since the official version is not very coherent. But, hey! What do you expect for free?
Free is always worth checking out. :D
Highly recommend you checking it out. Its system is fantastic. All the editions are solid. It never really took hold because of the setting was "too weird" for people. But I've converted people to loving it for decades at my own table. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have -shoot me a DM
(Bias alert as I'm associated with the last iteration of the setting but I swear I'm being objective /wink).
Why not make a huge ass post selling us the game?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 07, 2022, 02:51:56 PM
Why not make a huge ass post selling us the game?
Heh I've been talking about Talislanta on this forum for years. Most people are tepid about it at best. It usually becomes a thread where I'm doing 50% of the posting and there is little feedback because while most people have some mild interest in the game, few actually go out and read it, and fewer run it. There's a good smattering of people that have played it but never with any consistency, but because of this dynamic there isn't enough feedback for people to even ask questions about things they don't know enough about in actual play.
And the forum seems to be largely consumed with DnD and OSR these days so... you know. Feels a little bit like screaming into the void.
I did touch on Talislanta, after meeting a full on fan of the system. It reinforced the 'Jack Vance' ideas I used in a long running D&D campaign, made for some great colour and individuality.
Quote from: caldrail on September 07, 2022, 01:57:42 PM
Not a poblem, just do without space travel and use the other elements instead
Agreed...I'm mostly jealous I didn't think of it first.
Quote from: tenbones on September 07, 2022, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 07, 2022, 02:51:56 PM
Why not make a huge ass post selling us the game?
Heh I've been talking about Talislanta on this forum for years. Most people are tepid about it at best. It usually becomes a thread where I'm doing 50% of the posting and there is little feedback because while most people have some mild interest in the game, few actually go out and read it, and fewer run it. There's a good smattering of people that have played it but never with any consistency, but because of this dynamic there isn't enough feedback for people to even ask questions about things they don't know enough about in actual play.
And the forum seems to be largely consumed with DnD and OSR these days so... you know. Feels a little bit like screaming into the void.
I have most of the first three editions in physical form including the now apocryphal Cyclopedias but haven't played. It's a mix of takers, being just a little too different (says the guy who loves Glorantha, but I hooks in it better than Talislanta). I think its key advertising point, "no elves" hid underneath it the issue. Compared to the three settings I most associate it with: Tekumel, Glorantha, and Jorune, it had the fewest points of contact with what I expect from fantasy/myth/science-fiction. Of course, that is very much a YMMV thing based on background prior to encountering it.
I do find 3rd edition interesting as I see early elements of D&D 3, which given Jonathan Tweet is listed as a designer.
There is the monthly RPG meetup here Saturday...maybe I should dig out my Talislanta books and see if I can get people to take a swing. It'll certainly be something different.
Do it!
Trying to convince people on forums is a mixed bag at best. The real way to do anything is to show people. The Edition Wars in any system exist only amongst Forum Nerdzerkers. I'm confident there is some asshat that is an idiot savant that can make DnD 4e awesome for me.
That's not going to change my feelings about 4e, likely, but it'll mean there is someone out there that probably can make it sing after much needless work that other systems can do much more easily.
The weird part about this forum's "thing" about the OSR - is I'm still mystified about all the flavors of the OSR in particular, and the understanding that there are already systems that do most if not all of what the OSR offers.
But I digress - Dying Earth is Jack Vance. Talislanta is very much inspiried by Vances Dying Earth - much like old-school DnD. But it's very much its own thing. The system speaks for itself. GO FORTH AND SHARE!
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 07, 2022, 12:20:21 AM
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 05, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
So, I'm looking into options for a next campaign to run, and I think I want to do something in the vein of the Dying Earth genre. I.e., a setting wherein science fiction civilization has risen and fallen (perhaps several times), with the result that the world has collapsed back into something more like a fantasy setting, but with a sort of underlying substratum of sci-fi. As of this moment, my top contenders are:
Hawkmoon (either the Chaosium or Mongoose versions)
If you're open to Runequest/BRP you might look at The Chronicles of Future Earth. While there is a very late KS for a FATE version the original was a BRP book. Sadly, it appears to be out of print.
Fortunately I have means of getting a hold of out of print pdfs. One of my regular players has been lobbying for a BRP game, and that looks like being well within the tone I'm looking for. So thanks, That one goes on the short-list.
For those (apparently several) of you that have some experience with Talislanta, what's the consensus on the various editions of it? From a cursory glance through what's available on their website, it seems like the rules have not changed much from edition to edition. If so, I'd usually go with the most recent one (5th edition), but it looks like 4th edition might have the most support in terms of additional books?
I'm a Talislanta 1e fan first (mostly for the aesthetic), with 2e and 3e being close behind (I do like the expanded Magic options in them); I find the more recent editions (4e, 5e and TSL) to be regressions, mostly due to needless reworkings of Magic & Combat. Magic loses all flavor with its Ars Magica style "combine techniques and forms to scientifically drain Magic of it's wonder" and the combat system is likewise uniformized to blandness (you fumble, miss, hit for half-damage, hit for full damage or crit; no random damage rolls, which may not be a big deal for you, but I prefer more randomness in combat).
You can get a nice POD hardcover copy of 1e on DriveThru for $26 + shipping.
Quote from: rhialto on September 08, 2022, 05:26:56 AM
I'm a Talislanta 1e fan first (mostly for the aesthetic), with 2e and 3e being close behind (I do like the expanded Magic options in them); I find the more recent editions (4e, 5e and TSL) to be regressions, mostly due to needless reworkings of Magic & Combat. Magic loses all flavor with its Ars Magica style "combine techniques and forms to scientifically drain Magic of it's wonder" and the combat system is likewise uniformized to blandness (you fumble, miss, hit for half-damage, hit for full damage or crit; no random damage rolls, which may not be a big deal for you, but I prefer more randomness in combat).
You can get a nice POD hardcover copy of 1e on DriveThru for $26 + shipping.
I like the cut of your jib, sir.
Among Tal-superfans (of which I'm a card-carrying member) I actually like 3e a LOT. But the reality is you can plug-and-play all the editions together. Even ripping out the magic systems and replacing them with the edition you like with almost no impact to the rest of the system. Or you can get crazy and use them all simultaneously.
The system, the setting and the scale of the game was *way* ahead of its time. And I'd argue it still is better than *most* stuff out there.
Quote from: tenbones on September 08, 2022, 10:10:15 AM
Among Tal-superfans (of which I'm a card-carrying member) I actually like 3e a LOT. But the reality is you can plug-and-play all the editions together. Even ripping out the magic systems and replacing them with the edition you like with almost no impact to the rest of the system. Or you can get crazy and use them all simultaneously.
The system, the setting and the scale of the game was *way* ahead of its time. And I'd argue it still is better than *most* stuff out there.
That's very useful information. As I said, I have 1st-3rd in physical form, but having done nothing was thinking about using the QS from 4e on the website. Good to know the editions are at least B/X<->BECMI or AD&D<->AD&D2 levels of compatible.
Do you have a recommendation on where in the timeline (I know 3rd jumps a few decades...not sure if 4th and 5th do as well) to play?
Quote from: tenbones on September 08, 2022, 10:10:15 AMI like the cut of your jib, sir.
Among Tal-superfans (of which I'm a card-carrying member) I actually like 3e a LOT. But the reality is you can plug-and-play all the editions together. Even ripping out the magic systems and replacing them with the edition you like with almost no impact to the rest of the system. Or you can get crazy and use them all simultaneously.
The system, the setting and the scale of the game was *way* ahead of its time. And I'd argue it still is better than *most* stuff out there.
Yes, Tal 1e was admirably broad in imaginative scope and succinct in its rules. I often wished Bard Games had paired Tal rules with their Atlantis setting, instead of the unwieldy Arcanum rules. Someone should do that...
Quote from: rhialto on September 08, 2022, 05:04:05 PM
Yes, Tal 1e was admirably broad in imaginative scope and succinct in its rules. I often wished Bard Games had paired Tal rules with their Atlantis setting, instead of the unwieldy Arcanum rules. Someone should do that...
What's your opinion of Cyclopedia II-VI?
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 08, 2022, 05:02:22 PM
Quote from: tenbones on September 08, 2022, 10:10:15 AM
Among Tal-superfans (of which I'm a card-carrying member) I actually like 3e a LOT. But the reality is you can plug-and-play all the editions together. Even ripping out the magic systems and replacing them with the edition you like with almost no impact to the rest of the system. Or you can get crazy and use them all simultaneously.
The system, the setting and the scale of the game was *way* ahead of its time. And I'd argue it still is better than *most* stuff out there.
That's very useful information. As I said, I have 1st-3rd in physical form, but having done nothing was thinking about using the QS from 4e on the website. Good to know the editions are at least B/X<->BECMI or AD&D<->AD&D2 levels of compatible.
Do you have a recommendation on where in the timeline (I know 3rd jumps a few decades...not sure if 4th and 5th do as well) to play?
Honestly - just play it anywhere you think is fun. 5-editions of the game did very little to push the timeline. Our proposed 6e which fell through for silly reasons, would have pushed things a little further but ideally would have pushed the game in some interesting new directions.
Of course Talislanta: The Savage Lands takes place centuries before the modern era. So that's is a distinctly *different* set of parameters and is very different than the standard game. It's much more primal and barbaric. The system is more 2e but you can plug-and-play it with any other editions as needed. You can even bring your characters into that setting via time-travel if you wanted.
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 08, 2022, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: rhialto on September 08, 2022, 05:04:05 PM
Yes, Tal 1e was admirably broad in imaginative scope and succinct in its rules. I often wished Bard Games had paired Tal rules with their Atlantis setting, instead of the unwieldy Arcanum rules. Someone should do that...
What's your opinion of Cyclopedia II-VI?
They're all good extensions of both the setting (detailing the various regions) and rules (which if I recall correctly most involve new race-class combos, with the occasional new skill: it's been a while since I looked though).
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 07, 2022, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 07, 2022, 12:20:21 AM
If you're open to Runequest/BRP you might look at The Chronicles of Future Earth. While there is a very late KS for a FATE version the original was a BRP book. Sadly, it appears to be out of print.
Fortunately I have means of getting a hold of out of print pdfs. One of my regular players has been lobbying for a BRP game, and that looks like being well within the tone I'm looking for. So thanks, That one goes on the short-list.
I assume most of us do, but I'm not sure of local etiquette on discussing them (the account may be old, but I don't really post much).
If that is what you run, I'd love to hear how it goes.
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 08, 2022, 11:48:29 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 07, 2022, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 07, 2022, 12:20:21 AM
If you're open to Runequest/BRP you might look at The Chronicles of Future Earth. While there is a very late KS for a FATE version the original was a BRP book. Sadly, it appears to be out of print.
Fortunately I have means of getting a hold of out of print pdfs. One of my regular players has been lobbying for a BRP game, and that looks like being well within the tone I'm looking for. So thanks, That one goes on the short-list.
I assume most of us do, but I'm not sure of local etiquette on discussing them (the account may be old, but I don't really post much).
If that is what you run, I'd love to hear how it goes.
Whatever I end up going with, I'll try and remember to report back here. I tend to start brainstorming on a new campaign up to a year before I intend to run it, though, so it'll probably be a while.
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 05, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
The Zothique supplement for Call of Chulhu
Not to go too far off topic, but I'm not familiar with this supplement. What is the full name of it?
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 09, 2022, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 08, 2022, 11:48:29 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 07, 2022, 08:24:09 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 07, 2022, 12:20:21 AM
If you're open to Runequest/BRP you might look at The Chronicles of Future Earth. While there is a very late KS for a FATE version the original was a BRP book. Sadly, it appears to be out of print.
Fortunately I have means of getting a hold of out of print pdfs. One of my regular players has been lobbying for a BRP game, and that looks like being well within the tone I'm looking for. So thanks, That one goes on the short-list.
I assume most of us do, but I'm not sure of local etiquette on discussing them (the account may be old, but I don't really post much).
If that is what you run, I'd love to hear how it goes.
Whatever I end up going with, I'll try and remember to report back here. I tend to start brainstorming on a new campaign up to a year before I intend to run it, though, so it'll probably be a while.
Please do. Also, I am a huge fan of Whitehack 3e for something like this. Solid mechanics and you can sprinkle in the sci-fantasy to taste.
On my list, and if you want a stronger undertone of sci-fi, is Suldokar's Wake by the same creator. It has a wonderful setting and premise. An extensive timeline gives you all sorts of possibilities.
The game mechanics for both games are bulletproof.
Quote from: mattplaysgames on September 10, 2022, 05:17:40 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 05, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
The Zothique supplement for Call of Chulhu
Not to go too far off topic, but I'm not familiar with this supplement. What is the full name of it?
Ok, so I went and looked and it's actually not a Call of Cthulhu supplement. The pdf was in my folder for COC D20, I think, which is where I would have gotten that. But it's actually just a general D20 supplement called "Zothique: Gaming on the Last Continent; Based on the Works of Clark Ashton Smith" by G.R. Hager (2003). Also, "supplement" might be a bit of a stretch, as the document is only 16 pages long.
I'll go back and correct my original post to reflect that.
Talislanta has already been mentioned several times by people more qualified than me. It´s a truly alien world inspired by psychedelics (as far I´v heard) I have never played it myself, though I have owned and read quite a bit of the books. Can´t say I have ever seen another game world designed with such creativity. And it´s free on the website, so that might be a bonus.
This video inspired me at around late 90´s and early 2000´s to check Talislanta out and it still gives me goosebumps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kudBb2mRs_s
There are a few Talislanta reviews on Youtube, which are all favourable. A channel called "DMJames" has done quite a few videos
about Talislanta also.
Tekumel, another one of the same caliber. Maybe slightly less alien than Talislanta, but superb in the ways how it is so deep in lore and the
lost technology is expressed in awesome way. If you want to have a feel what Tekumel is like, there is an interactive fantasy novel set in Tekumel for 3,99$, played it through and personally found it well written:
https://www.choiceofgames.com/petal-throne/
Quote from: caldrail on September 07, 2022, 10:44:20 AM
Check out Faded Suns. Scifi RPG with medieval overtones and some good ideas about basic resolutions.
There was a Bundle of Holding for the latest version just a few weeks back, I have no experience of this
newest edition though, only of the Revised Edition. I am not sure if the tech level is too high to be Dying
Earth-like, but like mentioned previously, very much like Dune or even Warhammer 40k. If you like Byzantine
Empire or The Name of the Rose, you can easily play a sci-fi version of those in Fading Suns.
Tekumel *is* interesting, if intimidating... I gave up on supporting, running, collecting (etc) it once I discovered the awful antisemitism of its author...
Quote from: soundchaser on September 11, 2022, 10:40:32 PM
Tekumel *is* interesting, if intimidating... I gave up on supporting, running, collecting (etc) it once I discovered the awful antisemitism of its author...
Many people share your stance. The author is dead by now and you won´t be giving him any money in any shape or form and the antisemitism
is not visible in Tekumel, atleast I haven´t seen any signs of it personally. The foundation that runs the show now, have given a formal apology
of sorts and clearly have washed their hands from Barker´s political views. Then again, some complain about Tolkien or Lovecraft having some views
on racial issues, of course, their work can´t be compared to writing and publishing a racewar novel obviously.
Quote from: Angry Goblin on September 12, 2022, 08:48:48 AM
Quote from: soundchaser on September 11, 2022, 10:40:32 PM
Tekumel *is* interesting, if intimidating... I gave up on supporting, running, collecting (etc) it once I discovered the awful antisemitism of its author...
Many people share your stance. The author is dead by now and you won´t be giving him any money in any shape or form and the antisemitism
is not visible in Tekumel, atleast I haven´t seen any signs of it personally. The foundation that runs the show now, have given a formal apology
of sorts and clearly have washed their hands from Barker´s political views. Then again, some complain about Tolkien or Lovecraft having some views
on racial issues, of course, their work can´t be compared to writing and publishing a racewar novel obviously.
Tolkien, who when asked if he was a Jew by an Anti-Semite answered: "No, I don't have the HONOR of belonging to such great people" (I'm paraphrasing), you're mixing him up with Barker and Lovecraft...
This guy just did a review of the version I wrote. (edit: this is the 5e edition, I *much* prefer the native rules)
https://youtu.be/wsJpC3IPMOI
With props to Jack Vance.
Edit2: Here's KS video (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1861515217/talislanta-the-savage-land/description) Nocturnal did.
Thanks to both of you for the video recommendations. I do prefer to get a video summary of a setting, before I dive into the books, so I'll add those to my watchlist.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 12, 2022, 10:41:57 AM
Quote from: Angry Goblin on September 12, 2022, 08:48:48 AM
Quote from: soundchaser on September 11, 2022, 10:40:32 PM
Tekumel *is* interesting, if intimidating... I gave up on supporting, running, collecting (etc) it once I discovered the awful antisemitism of its author...
Many people share your stance. The author is dead by now and you won´t be giving him any money in any shape or form and the antisemitism
is not visible in Tekumel, atleast I haven´t seen any signs of it personally. The foundation that runs the show now, have given a formal apology
of sorts and clearly have washed their hands from Barker´s political views. Then again, some complain about Tolkien or Lovecraft having some views
on racial issues, of course, their work can´t be compared to writing and publishing a racewar novel obviously.
Tolkien, who when asked if he was a Jew by an Anti-Semite answered: "No, I don't have the HONOR of belonging to such great people" (I'm paraphrasing), you're mixing him up with Barker and Lovecraft...
I'm even inclined to give Lovecraft a pass, partially because he was a "man of his time", but mostly because the guy was so spectacularly neurotic. If you read up on the his life and mental state, it's not surprising that he feared and hated practically everyone and everything.
While Doc MARB is dead, the foundation allocates revenue to his estate. Their apology is necessary... but even so I cannot in good conscience aid them with money.
To my mind, Tolkien saying he "did not have the honour" of belonging to the Jewish ethnos, doesn't actually indicate one way or the other his views on that group. It's just an arch, dry, British way of politely refusing to be drawn on the issue.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 12, 2022, 10:41:57 AM
Quote from: Angry Goblin on September 12, 2022, 08:48:48 AM
Quote from: soundchaser on September 11, 2022, 10:40:32 PM
Tekumel *is* interesting, if intimidating... I gave up on supporting, running, collecting (etc) it once I discovered the awful antisemitism of its author...
Many people share your stance. The author is dead by now and you won´t be giving him any money in any shape or form and the antisemitism
is not visible in Tekumel, atleast I haven´t seen any signs of it personally. The foundation that runs the show now, have given a formal apology
of sorts and clearly have washed their hands from Barker´s political views. Then again, some complain about Tolkien or Lovecraft having some views
on racial issues, of course, their work can´t be compared to writing and publishing a racewar novel obviously.
Tolkien, who when asked if he was a Jew by an Anti-Semite answered: "No, I don't have the HONOR of belonging to such great people" (I'm paraphrasing), you're mixing him up with Barker and Lovecraft...
I just looked up the quote, which is different to that above: Tolkien definitely placed himself against the anti-Semites.
Quote from: TheShadow on September 12, 2022, 11:25:57 PM
I just looked up the quote, which is different to that above: Tolkien definitely placed himself against the anti-Semites.
I did say I was paraphrasing. But even if it was identical it would mean he was putting himself on the side of the Jews and not the Nazi questioning him.
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 12, 2022, 07:51:18 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 12, 2022, 10:41:57 AM
Quote from: Angry Goblin on September 12, 2022, 08:48:48 AM
Quote from: soundchaser on September 11, 2022, 10:40:32 PM
Tekumel *is* interesting, if intimidating... I gave up on supporting, running, collecting (etc) it once I discovered the awful antisemitism of its author...
Many people share your stance. The author is dead by now and you won´t be giving him any money in any shape or form and the antisemitism
is not visible in Tekumel, atleast I haven´t seen any signs of it personally. The foundation that runs the show now, have given a formal apology
of sorts and clearly have washed their hands from Barker´s political views. Then again, some complain about Tolkien or Lovecraft having some views
on racial issues, of course, their work can´t be compared to writing and publishing a racewar novel obviously.
Tolkien, who when asked if he was a Jew by an Anti-Semite answered: "No, I don't have the HONOR of belonging to such great people" (I'm paraphrasing), you're mixing him up with Barker and Lovecraft...
I'm even inclined to give Lovecraft a pass, partially because he was a "man of his time", but mostly because the guy was so spectacularly neurotic. If you read up on the his life and mental state, it's not surprising that he feared and hated practically everyone and everything.
You summed up my thoughts better than I could have.
Quote from: soundchaser on September 12, 2022, 09:24:54 PM
While Doc MARB is dead, the foundation allocates revenue to his estate. Their apology is necessary... but even so I cannot in good conscience aid them with money.
I wasn´t aware of this, I stand corrected.
Quote from: ForgottenF on September 12, 2022, 07:51:18 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 12, 2022, 10:41:57 AM
Quote from: Angry Goblin on September 12, 2022, 08:48:48 AM
Quote from: soundchaser on September 11, 2022, 10:40:32 PM
Tekumel *is* interesting, if intimidating... I gave up on supporting, running, collecting (etc) it once I discovered the awful antisemitism of its author...
Many people share your stance. The author is dead by now and you won´t be giving him any money in any shape or form and the antisemitism
is not visible in Tekumel, atleast I haven´t seen any signs of it personally. The foundation that runs the show now, have given a formal apology
of sorts and clearly have washed their hands from Barker´s political views. Then again, some complain about Tolkien or Lovecraft having some views
on racial issues, of course, their work can´t be compared to writing and publishing a racewar novel obviously.
Tolkien, who when asked if he was a Jew by an Anti-Semite answered: "No, I don't have the HONOR of belonging to such great people" (I'm paraphrasing), you're mixing him up with Barker and Lovecraft...
I'm even inclined to give Lovecraft a pass, partially because he was a "man of his time", but mostly because the guy was so spectacularly neurotic. If you read up on the his life and mental state, it's not surprising that he feared and hated practically everyone and everything.
Agreed. Condemning Lovecraft for his "racism" is condemning the mentally ill for their illnesses.
Does every thread have to devolve into debating how racists/not racist some author from a century ago was?
Does anyone *truly* care? Cultural relativism is not good for gaming.
Dwarves hate Elves. Established. But Gimili did get a hard-on when he met Galadriel. And he's got friends that are Elves. Racist? I dunno/don't care. But the story was good. And Middle Earth is fucking cool.
Quote from: tenbones on September 14, 2022, 10:44:42 AM
Does anyone *truly* care? Cultural relativism is not good for gaming.
I don't except for two cases:
1. When it is used to rewrite history, such as the renaming of the World Fantasy Award.
2. When someone likes to make a big show about acknowledging how $WRITER was so racist and they aren't like that while shilling their own product based on that person's work and its popularity.
Both apply with Lovecraft. Actually can't think of anyone else where it does.
Well ya know...
There is this seeming inability to talk about anything topical without the inevitable descent into talking about how bad-faith actors are shitting on everything. I do get it. It's *real*. But at a certain point, it almost feels like people have developed a taste for the shit being served.
This is how I feel about D&D - so many people on this forum that consume D&D then rail about the direction WotC has been taking it for YEARS now. We threaten lose the thread of what's good about what we do, how we do it, if we're just debating about shit the vast majority of us already know/understand.
There is no one on this forum that believes Lovecraft or Tolkien are pieces of shit, that is going to be convinced otherwise. The rest of us already know. Just like we know who those posters are. And yet we follow this pattern with regularity trying to defend that which requires no defense.
And just like that - Jack Vance and his glorious works are forgotten...
Quote from: tenbones on September 14, 2022, 11:09:44 AM
And just like that - Jack Vance and his glorious works are forgotten...
My book giving habits would beg to differ ;)
I can only think of one author whose books I have given away more because some just needs to read them already than Vance.
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 14, 2022, 11:13:14 AM
Quote from: tenbones on September 14, 2022, 11:09:44 AM
And just like that - Jack Vance and his glorious works are forgotten...
My book giving habits would beg to differ ;)
I can only think of one author whose books I have given away because some just needs to read them already than Vance.
LOL I hear ya. I've "lost" my Raymond Feist books at *least* a dozen times. Same with my Howard books. My Leiber and Moocock books maybe half-dozen.
It's a hard question to answer, because the outcome depends on how and what part of Vance you want in the game. Vance is a huge influence on my fantasy games. Heck, some of his science fiction has an indirect influence on my fantasy games. The attitude of the characters in the Demon Princes series influences my NPCs. Yet, there is very little that I can point to as a direct lift. I've never run a Cugel knockoff or a Rhialto knockoff or run a game where most spells kills something dead. I don't particularly like obvious sci/fi or pulp lifts, such as the old tech in "Ulan Dhor" in "The Dying Earth. Of course, I've used some of the magic items and spells through D&D, and finding those was certainly fun having read Vance before playing the game.
"Lyonesse" is one of my favorite stories, ever, but all I pull directly from it is an attitude, and sometimes a way of naming characters. Well, that and it informs (along with Poul Anderson) my interest in fantasy set before the heart of the medieval period. Dark Age heroic fantasy is a neglected niche.
There is a slice of RPG/Vance fandom that thinks having a Vancian game is everyone speaking like Vance's characters. Lots of vocabulary used in a witty way. I don't see the appeal, which to me is more playing at aping a Vance novel instead of role playing a character in a Vancian way.
So for me, the best game to run a Vance-inspired setting is a game that you already know and like well, so that you can get past the mechanics long enough to engage with the characters.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 14, 2022, 11:32:17 AM
"Lyonesse" is one of my favorite stories, ever, but all I pull directly from it is an attitude, and sometimes a way of naming characters. Well, that and it informs (along with Poul Anderson) my interest in fantasy set before the heart of the medieval period. Dark Age heroic fantasy is a neglected niche.
True...what Anderson are you using? Just Ys or some others?
Quote
There is a slice of RPG/Vance fandom that thinks having a Vancian game is everyone speaking like Vance's characters. Lots of vocabulary used in a witty way. I don't see the appeal, which to me is more playing at aping a Vance novel instead of role playing a character in a Vancian way.
That was the experience system for the Pelgrane
Dying Earth RPG and was the weakest part of that game.
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 14, 2022, 12:11:36 PM
True...what Anderson are you using? Just Ys or some others?
Ys was eye-opening, but some of his Norse saga style stuff, too. There is some inspiration in his "On Fantasy" collection (essays and short stories). "The Valor of Cappen Varra" is an interesting twist, using his Sanctuary character in a world that could fit that setting but hearkens back to something earlier. It's also a twist on trolls, which is amusing given his more medieval "Three Hearts and Three Lions" is the inspiration for the D&D troll.
I find those two authors particularly helpful because even when they bring in the more medieval elements (for a later setting or somewhat jumbled in a King Arthur fashion, as Vance does with Lyonesse), they do so almost as if they can see their medieval things anchored in the dark ages. So much of medieval fantasy today is done as if "Roman empire long time ago. Nothing happens anywhere for centuries. Suddenly knights appear on the scene." :D
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 14, 2022, 12:37:20 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on September 14, 2022, 12:11:36 PM
True...what Anderson are you using? Just Ys or some others?
Ys was eye-opening, but some of his Norse saga style stuff, too. There is some inspiration in his "On Fantasy" collection (essays and short stories). "The Valor of Cappen Varra" is an interesting twist, using his Sanctuary character in a world that could fit that setting but hearkens back to something earlier. It's also a twist on trolls, which is amusing given his more medieval "Three Hearts and Three Lions" is the inspiration for the D&D troll.
High Crusade, despite the addition of sci-fi elements, is pure gold in terms of Dark Ages attitude.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 14, 2022, 11:32:17 AM
It's a hard question to answer, because the outcome depends on how and what part of Vance you want in the game. Vance is a huge influence on my fantasy games. Heck, some of his science fiction has an indirect influence on my fantasy games. The attitude of the characters in the Demon Princes series influences my NPCs. Yet, there is very little that I can point to as a direct lift. I've never run a Cugel knockoff or a Rhialto knockoff or run a game where most spells kills something dead. I don't particularly like obvious sci/fi or pulp lifts, such as the old tech in "Ulan Dhor" in "The Dying Earth. Of course, I've used some of the magic items and spells through D&D, and finding those was certainly fun having read Vance before playing the game.
"Lyonesse" is one of my favorite stories, ever, but all I pull directly from it is an attitude, and sometimes a way of naming characters. Well, that and it informs (along with Poul Anderson) my interest in fantasy set before the heart of the medieval period. Dark Age heroic fantasy is a neglected niche.
There is a slice of RPG/Vance fandom that thinks having a Vancian game is everyone speaking like Vance's characters. Lots of vocabulary used in a witty way. I don't see the appeal, which to me is more playing at aping a Vance novel instead of role playing a character in a Vancian way.
So for me, the best game to run a Vance-inspired setting is a game that you already know and like well, so that you can get past the mechanics long enough to engage with the characters.
Nice to see Anderson getting shouted out. I find him to be one of the most underrated and disregarded of the Appendix N authors, but he's probably tied with Fritz Leiber for being my favorite. The Broken Sword wound up being the single greatest influence on the way I run the Dragon Warriors setting. Working my way through his Flandry of Terra books right now, and then it's probably on to the High Crusade after a brief side trip to read the Vanishing Tower.
With Dying Earth specifically, I was looking for other things with similar core setting elements. Specifically a science fiction setting which, because of the collapse of advanced civilization, looks and acts like a fantasy setting ( the closest literary analogues probably being Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, and Moorcock's Hawkmoon)
Book of the New Sun is *sublime*. As is Hawkmoon.
Is there even an RPG for Book of the New Sun??
Quote from: tenbones on September 15, 2022, 01:34:27 PM
Is there even an RPG for Book of the New Sun??
Good question. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one who tried to tackle that level of sublimity.
Didn't GURPS take a crack at it?
Quote from: Zalman on September 15, 2022, 02:24:10 PM
Quote from: tenbones on September 15, 2022, 01:34:27 PM
Is there even an RPG for Book of the New Sun??
Good question. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one who tried to tackle that level of sublimity.
There is a gurps book, and the "Chronicles of Future Earth" BRP supplement that was recommended earlier in the thread seems to be a bit of an unofficial adaptation.
Quote from: tenbones on September 15, 2022, 01:34:27 PM
Book of the New Sun is *sublime*. As is Hawkmoon.
Is there even an RPG for Book of the New Sun??
There was a GURPS 3e book.
https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/49100/gurps-new-sun
I'm pretty sure it is very OOP as it was licensed, but the usual suspects probably have it.
DCC has a supplement based on the Empire of the East series, which is about, "a long ass time ago everybody nuked each other into oblivion, but now it's a medieval fantasy world with a few pieces of futuristic tech kicking around", but the setting is pretty bare bones.
Quote from: Tasty_Wind on September 17, 2022, 10:14:56 AM
DCC has a supplement based on the Empire of the East series, which is about, "a long ass time ago everybody nuked each other into oblivion, but now it's a medieval fantasy world with a few pieces of futuristic tech kicking around", but the setting is pretty bare bones.
I'll add it to the pile, thanks. All these supplements are a bit skint, so I might end up hodgepodging them all together into a homebrew.