Quote from: Rum Cove;504497The difference to me, is that I'm not compiling it into a document, releasing it to the public (whether for free or money, doesn't matter) and claiming that it is D&D in an re-organized and clearer format.

Not once I have seen it claimed that "this is 1e with our own house rules" or "this is B/X with my own house rules" (except maybe Lamentations of the Flame Princess and Dwimmermount).  It is usually "want to play AD&D for free?  Get OSRIC" and "the ORIGINAL untouched game is available as S&W".  There just seems to be something disingenuous about retro-clones (especially with the copyright/trademarking of the faux brands).

OK. NONE of the editors of said retroclones are saying any of these things, and Stuart Marshall, the compiler/editor of OSRIC, is certainly, emphatically, NOT saying this is "AD&D re-organized in a clearer format". You can hear that from fans like myself, but not from the guys who put this thing together. When you ask Stuart what OSRIC is, he'll tell you this is first and foremost a tool, a reference document to be used to publish AD&D materials via the OGL. That's it.

The rest is fans looking at OSRIC and saying "hey, it's actually really useful to understand some points of the AD&D game, it's a cool aid" and so on. Likewise, you won't see Matt Finch pretending that Swords & Wizardry is a carbon copy of OD&D, or Daniel Proctor pretending that Labyrinth Lord is a carbon copy of B/X. That's just not happening at all.

Quote from: Rum Cove;504497However, for you to understand how I view D&D the game (and what is and isn't).  It's all D&D with houserules.  And I think everyone, even those who do it "RAW" are playing D&D with houserules, because interpretations vary, even with the same individual over time.

That we agree on, hence some fans just saying "hey, OSRIC is pretty much AD&D," or "hey, S&W Complete is pretty much OD&D with supplements". That's what you can see. I like OSRIC. I say that, partly because I don't care for the "D&D brand" and call a D&D game for what it is. A D&D game.

Quote from: Rum Cove;504497If OSRIC is D&D, then so is Rolemaster and Palladium Fantasy. D&D is a brand.

I don't care for the brand name when we're talking actual play. OSRIC used as a reference manual is nigh undistinguishable to me from AD&D First Ed. Now like I said, I understand the disconnect if you're using weapon speeds and the like, though I must admit that reading about your houserules afterwards made me wonder about the frustration you're expressing right now.

Quote from: Rum Cove;504497For new players, I think it is wrong to have them associate OSRIC with AD&D, no matter how close they may be.

Yeah. I completely disagree with that. What helps helps. If you find yourself lost in the AD&D books language and can't understand this or that rule, it pays off to check out OSRIC's take on the same principle. It just helps a lot. I don't care if it's got a "D&D" sticker on the cover or not, as long as it's useful at the game table. OSRIC is useful to me, at my 1e table, and that's the end of it, as far as I'm concerned.

ooooh great, another edition war but this time between the real deal (1st edition AD&D) and a clone (OSCRAP)...


It will never end...

Lurk more.

Quote from: Benoist;504426Apparently, the GP value of items is not listed in the book, it seems for legal reasons. That's the best answer I could find right away. I'm investigating it.

What made me react Jeff is when you said that the principle of XP awards for keeping/selling items wasn't included, which really made me go "huh?" because I do believe like you this is really important for the feel of AD&D.

I'm just a bit mortified that I missed that part on p118 when we were playing it.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;504388Actually the clones exist for the purpose of producing new support product for classic games. New modules usable with OD&D, BD&D and AD&D are a good thing. If you have the original rules then there isn't a need to get the clone game and the adventures are easy enough to use with nearly no conversion required.

So, the clones don't need to be some great creative work of art to fufill thier function. They are merely a means to an end.

This, a thousand times this.

Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;504506ooooh great, another edition war but this time between the real deal (1st edition AD&D) and a clone (OSCRAP)...

Not really.  Skywalker and Benoist made it clear in their posts that OSRIC was 1e AD&D with some slight changes.  I had hoped, for the benefit of new players or those unfamiliar with the changes and their effect to the game, that those changes were not included.

I agree with both of them, that people should use OSRIC and 1e together.

Quote from: tellius;504236I unearthed a box of my old books at my parents place that included my old shoddy AD&D 1e set (PHB, DMB, MM and FF). So, having not run an AD&D 1e game since I was a pimply youngster please share with me some common pitfalls to avoid in the rules.

I have been searching around for the common house rules that seem to be in use (a great example for me is: Kyle's Pfaffenberg's Folly). But I would love any suggestions from veteran AD&D 1e players/ref's for running a fun game.

Please help me out!

(The game will be a pretty standard, light-hearted, dungeon crawling fools affair if that helps with the advice any).

My recommendation is to use a sticky note for the appendices at the back for fast reference, particularly the smells, sounds, random crap in rooms, and traps tables, which are tremendously handy in play (and not just in D&D). Or print them off separately if you should have a pdf of it.

Quote from: Benoist;504485d20 initiative on which you add weapon speeds

Actually, we use 1d10 with modifiers, including weapon speeds.  Lowest goes first.

As I said above, I try to associate d20s with "higher is better" and d10s with "lower is better" since we just came away from 4e (when Essentials was released).

I am fortunate enough to be playing with old friends, most started the hobby with me, so a lot of our houserules are just barnacle from over the decades and are now ingrained.  They might seem strange to outsiders, but that's the beauty of D&D.

I agree: the "flamewar" only exists in AG's mind.

Hey, by the way, here's the thread where we're talking about megadungeon design:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=21636

Check it out!

Quote from: Rum Cove;504516Not really.  Skywalker and Benoist made it clear in their posts that OSRIC was 1e AD&D with some slight changes.  I had hoped, for the benefit of new players or those unfamiliar with the changes and their effect to the game, that those changes were not included.

I agree with both of them, that people should use OSRIC and 1e together.

People will always be led astray and that is not my problem.

OSCRAP is not 1st Edition, plain and simple.  It is a clone.

u r fat 11111!!!!

Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;504535OSCRAP is not 1st Edition, plain and simple.  It is a clone.

I don't think anyone has claimed OSRIC is AD&D1e.

Quote from: Skywalker;504538I don't think anyone has claimed OSRIC is AD&D1e.

The voices in his head did.

Quote from: Rum Cove;504283Exactly.  OSRIC is not AD&D (or D&D), it is OSRIC.

I wouldn't go that far. OSRIC is AD&D, but it's just not 1e. And that's ok.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;504519My recommendation is to use a sticky note for the appendices at the back for fast reference, particularly the smells, sounds, random crap in rooms, and traps tables, which are tremendously handy in play (and not just in D&D). Or print them off separately if you should have a pdf of it.

Actually I love this idea, thanks Psuedo. I was already scanning and printing out the relevant parts and making notes.