Quote from: Benoist;504314Incorrect. It is. Look at the DMG lists of items p. 122+. You will notice a column for the XP value, and one for the Market Price. The XP values indicated are in case the character keeps the item (p. 121), whereas items sold have their GP value directly translated as XP (p.85). Both are in OSRIC (p. 118) which explains you retain 10% of the item value if you keep it (the former case, though all the values listed in the DMG have been defaulted to a flat 10% ratio), and gain 100% of the value if you sell it (the latter case).

So it's right there. It's just worded differently. If anything, I think the 10% ratio might be a little low compared to the detail of items in the DMG, but it's there nonetheless.

OK, now tell me where the list of magic items and their associated GP value is in OSRIC so I can use this section that I missed (on p118).

Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;504286Do you know why these people do these clone things???  They are trying to secure their place in the world of rpg's whereas in real life these people have not accomplished anything significant.  They think that a clone is an ORIGINAL PRODUCT which in its entirety is NOT.  It is a facsimili.  It is a copy.  SO with that thinking, they think they are creating something great and basically will never ESCAPE the shadow of the true creator(s) of the original game.    

So bitter. :rant:

Actually the clones exist for the purpose of producing new support product for classic games. New modules usable with OD&D, BD&D and AD&D are a good thing. If you have the original rules then there isn't a need to get the clone game and the adventures are easy enough to use with nearly no conversion required.

So, the clones don't need to be some great creative work of art to fufill thier function. They are merely a means to an end.

Quote from: Spinachcat;504344Decide if you want to run 1e RAW or not. There is no right answer. It depends on how you feel about what you are reading and only you know what will rock hard for your group.

BTW, there is a PDF online that is a reformatted version of OD&D in a single volume by a guy named Greyharp. Nothing changed, just edited for clarity. Worth a look if you want something equally authentic, but rules lighter.

For me, the best fun was always saying fuck it to the rules. Anything that remotely slows my game gets jettisoned. Its all about fast, crazy brutal madness with lots of horror and adventure.

I suggest at least 3rd or 4th level characters. The "fun" of having your 1st level party get TPK'd twice in one night is highly overrated. (It's more humorous when its a 4th level party).

If you love designing dungeons, go for it. If you don't or aren't sure, then whip out the DMG 1e and roll up a dungeon via Gary's tables. Don't mess with any of the numbers and roll up contents for rooms, sounds, smells and use every table in the back. THEN take the total randomness and look for patterns. Sit back and envision the story of how these elements came to be and the tale will come to you and your dungeon will come alive.



This is grogtard bullshit. Outside of the forums, nobody gives a damn about the minute differences.

99% of gamers are waaaay more concerned about pizza toppings than whether the DM is using 1e, 2e or OSRIC.

so true

Quote from: jeff37923;504360OK, now tell me where the list of magic items and their associated GP value is in OSRIC so I can use this section that I missed (on p118).

Apparently, the GP value of items is not listed in the book, it seems for legal reasons. That's the best answer I could find right away. I'm investigating it.

What made me react Jeff is when you said that the principle of XP awards for keeping/selling items wasn't included, which really made me go "huh?" because I do believe like you this is really important for the feel of AD&D.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;504388Actually the clones exist for the purpose of producing new support product for classic games.

This. The original and true purpose of the creation of OSRIC (Old School Reference Index and Compilation) was to allow the publication of AD&D First Ed products via the OGL.

The use of the same document as an actual game at the table was an indirect consequence of its existence (one that kind of surprised Stuart Marshall at the time, if memory serves). That's why the document feels very dry in its first iterations, and how it took on more the feel of a game afterwards as this fact became acknowledged by the editors.

Quote from: Benoist;504426Apparently, the GP value of items is not listed in the book, it seems for legal reasons. That's the best answer I could find right away. I'm investigating it.

Got an update on that front: the editors are aware of the issue, and the GP values of items (as can be derived from the SRD) is on the "to do" list for a future update of the OSRIC document.

Quote from: Spinachcat;504344This is grogtard bullshit. Outside of the forums, nobody gives a damn about the minute differences.

99% of gamers are waaaay more concerned about pizza toppings than whether the DM is using 1e, 2e or OSRIC.

 I have no clue what a grogtard is or if you are referring to grognard but in any case, I am not in either camp.  

How do you know what goes on outside of the forums???  There are some gamers who do care about minute differences and in this case, a simple difference is what seperates one game from another.

99% of gamers are more concerned with pizza toppings???  How do you now this?  So with your statement that gives a defined percentage, you are claiming you have intervewed gamers and asked them what is more important.

You are too funny.  Dismissed you are.  LOL      :rotfl:

Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;50446799% of gamers are more concerned with pizza toppings???  How do you now this?  So with your statement that gives a defined percentage, you are claiming you have intervewed gamers and asked them what is more important.

My mom said so, so it must be true.

Quote from: Benoist;504427This. The original and true purpose of the creation of OSRIC (Old School Reference Index and Compilation) was to allow the publication of AD&D First Ed products via the OGL.

Which it did so successfully, in that publishers have been creating new modules for OSRIC that are by design 99.99% compatible for AD&D1e. As a fan of AD&D1e, I don't see this as a bad thing at all.

Also having access to a free copy of OSRIC has made recruiting for AD&D1e games much easier than expecting players to source original 1e books.

As Benoist mentioned above, I have all my 1e books at the table when using OSRIC and vice versa, so it really needn't be one or the other.

Let's not derail this thread (on advice for 1e D&D) with a debate on the merits and validity of OSRIC.

At the very least, OSRIC gives a different perspective on rules that may not be as clear in the original texts.

For those without the original texts, they are easily accessible and affordable (of surprising quality) through many used book vendors.

Quote from: Rum Cove;504482At the very least, OSRIC gives a different perspective on rules that may not be as clear in the original texts.

Actually, OSRIC, while being an interpretation (or rather, an emulation through the OGL) and thus not an exact facsimile of the original rules, is I think far clearer than the original, when taken as a game manual, a reference book, rather than a conversation from one DM to another (which is what the DMG is at its core). It's part of the appeal of the reference document added to an AD&D library, to me.

And I must say, if I may (I'm very curious about that), I'm kind of surprised by the way you feel disappointed by the clones not being exact replicas of the games they emulate, while you yourself are adding stuff in your campaign like 2d10 bell-curve roll under ability scores, d20 initiative on which you add weapon speeds, and some stuff that really makes me wonder: if OSRIC isn't AD&D to you, how is your own game AD&D itself? Are you making a differenciation here I'm not seeing? Are you telling players "we're going to play AD&D tonight" and use these rules? So if that is AD&D to you, how is OSRIC not another AD&D than your own?

There's something here that's not computing with me, so I must be missing something. Hence the questions. Thanks.

Quote from: Rum Cove;504482At the very least, OSRIC gives a different perspective on rules that may not be as clear in the original texts.

For those without the original texts, they are easily accessible and affordable (of surprising quality) through many used book vendors.

I agree. In my first post OSRIC was mentioned as a useful stepping stone if you want to get into AD&D1e, not a replacement to it.

Quote from: Skywalker;504486I agree. In my first post OSRIC was mentioned as a useful stepping stone if you want to get into AD&D1e, not a replacement to it.

I agree too. OSRIC is not meant as a replacement, but it's a very valuable aid at the game table. To me at least.

If you really want to use AD&D's combat and initiative and surprise rules exactly by the book, this is as close as you'll likely get.

AD&D Initiative and Combat Tables: ADDICT

Quote from: Benoist;504485There's something here that's not computing with me, so I must be missing something. Hence the questions. Thanks.

The difference to me, is that I'm not compiling it into a document, releasing it to the public (whether for free or money, doesn't matter) and claiming that it is D&D in a re-organized and clearer format.

Not once I have seen it claimed that "this is 1e with our own house rules" or "this is B/X with my own house rules" (except maybe Lamentations of the Flame Princess and Dwimmermount).  It is usually "want to play AD&D for free?  Get OSRIC" and "the ORIGINAL untouched game is available as S&W".  There just seems to be something disingenuous about retro-clones (especially with the copyright/trademarking of the faux brands).

If OSRIC is D&D, then so is Rolemaster and Palladium Fantasy.  D&D is a brand.

However, for you to understand how I view D&D the game (and what is and isn't).  It's all D&D with houserules.  And I think everyone, even those who do it "RAW" are playing D&D with houserules, because interpretations vary, even with the same individual over time.

A group of kids without dice could be playing a houseruled version of D&D, if that's what they are saying they are doing.

Short hands are needed to help two individuals communicate.  When I say that I play 2e and that you play OSRIC, outsiders familiar with each version understand (and assume we have house rules).  For new players, I think it is wrong to have them associate OSRIC with AD&D, no matter how close they may be.