Quote from: jeff37923;504245You get experience points for magic items, a lot of them. So it is often better to avoid monsters and just steal their treasure when possible.

I hate quoting myself, but the above in AD&D is left out of OSRIC and I think it is very important to the feel of play in AD&D.

Quote from: jeff37923;504281I hate quoting myself, but the above in AD&D is left out of OSRIC and I think it is very important to the feel of play in AD&D.

Exactly.  OSRIC is not AD&D (or D&D), it is OSRIC.

Quote from: Rum Cove;504258How close is it to the original?  Is it only re-organized and more clearly written or is it like every retro-clone I've seen where personal house rules are included?

It is what it is.  It is a clone of another game therefore imperfect in many areas as the removal of the Bard and Psionics is concerned.

As a long time DM and player of 1st edition, I say ignore OSRIC which is also a culmination of house rules from those people over there at K&KA.    

Do you want to play 1st Edition D&D or do you want to play OSCRAP because it is two VERY DIFFERENt GAMES.  Needless to say that members of K&KA will convince to to go to their product which is highly inferior to the ORIGINAL rules as they were written.

You know what you want and you seem intelligent enough to figure out how to apply the rules even if they are a bit befuddled.

QuoteNot close enough for me. Which is why I've been disappointed by the whole "old school" series of retro-clones.

Do you know why these people do these clone things???  They are trying to secure their place in the world of rpg's whereas in real life these people have not accomplished anything significant.  They think that a clone is an ORIGINAL PRODUCT which in its entirety is NOT.  It is a facsimili.  It is a copy.  SO with that thinking, they think they are creating something great and basically will never ESCAPE the shadow of the true creator(s) of the original game.    

If you want to impress people, create an ORIGINAL game that IS NOT a false copy of a GREAT GAME.  

A prime example of this is STAR FLEET BATTLES and FEDERATION COMMANDER.  

QuoteFederation Commander is largely based on Star Fleet Battles (SFB), and carries over many of its basic rules and game dynamics. It was designed to be a game which would be similar to Star Fleet Battles, but which would provide more ease of learning and playability. It provides a balance between tactical nuance and ease of playability, in order to provide a game which is more accessible for newer gamers, or those with limited time constraints.
 
Some Star Fleet Battles rules were omitted from the game, in order to make gameplay more streamlined, and to eliminate some processes which some players found overly complex. Another motive was to make game rules and dynamics more understandable for new players.

[/B]

Federation Commander could be considered a clone BUT it is not.  It is not compatiable with SFB even though both games are designed by the same company.  One is for complexed players, the other is for new players and those who are limited in time constraints.

Quote from: jeff37923;504281I hate quoting myself, but the above in AD&D is left out of OSRIC and I think it is very important to the feel of play in AD&D.

You mean the 1 XP for 1 GP rule, and specific value of items taken out of the dungeon and sold afterwards? (DMG p. 85) It is in OSRIC, Chapter 3, How To Play, section Gaining Levels, subsection Experience, second paragraph. (OSRIC p.118, BBP printing)

Quote from: Benoist;504260My advice regarding the reading is to try to take what is said as a DM yourself. Don't read the DMG for the charts and tables only. Actually read the text, especially the advice, with an open, active mind, rather than a passive reader wanting to get on with it, down to the gritty rules. First Ed's books are not toaster manuals. They're intended to be read, not just skimmed through, in other words.

Are there any particular questions or pieces of advice you're after? I get the feeling I'm being too general here.

I am doing a read through of the rules again to (re)familiarise myself with the basic methods, keeping an eye out for what I originally would have glossed over. Currently I am going through the Surprise and Initiative stuff and trying to re-aquaint myself with them. To be honest they read really well (as you said reading the whole text is a lot of fun and interesting years later).

But since I probably will only have enough time to run through a couple simulation combats and the like with my wife prior to game day, I was hoping to get some good pointers about what works well in AD&D 1e at the table (ie: what house rules) and what just bogs it down, in the experience of veterans of the system.

For instance, I love the look of Shields Will Be Splintered and the variants that have come up in my googling, it looks fun and simple to use.

One of the questions that come up to my mind at the moment is, going through the surprise rules (bear in mind I don't have the original books with me at the moment to quote out of them), I was wondering how well they work in play or does it bog down. My first read through was that it was bloody complicated when you have people who surprise on different numbers, coupled with high dex off-setting when they could act. Do people use this ruling or is it just hand waved by most?

Now I am sure stuff will work out in play and I will use my own judgement, but it is always good to hear from veteran players about what works well and what they tweak to suit.

Basically, Benoist, tell me something that works well in play and tell me another thing that you found to be pointless fluff

One of my personal house rules is that I try to associate d20s with "higher is better" and d10s with "lower is better".  This was to help remove some confusion for players from later editions.

Attacks and Saving Throws use d20 - higher is better.
Thief Skills (d%) and Ability Score Tests (2d10) use d10s - lower is better.

I bring this all up to respond to your questions about Surprise.  We roll d20s (with modifiers based on Reaction Adjustment from Dexterity) - a result of 7 or higher means that the character is not surprised and may get an action in before those that are surprised.

Since we play more of a 2e game, we skip the segments and it's a little less complicated.  Mind you, we roll individual initiative each round (after the action is stated) with modifiers including Weapon Speed.

Quote from: Benoist;504287You mean the 1 XP for 1 GP rule, and specific value of items taken out of the dungeon and sold afterwards? (DMG p. 85) It is in OSRIC, Chapter 3, How To Play, section Gaining Levels, subsection Experience, second paragraph. (OSRIC p.118, BBP printing)

Magic Items in AD&D and AD&D2 had experience point values that you gained if you got that item through adventuring. That is not in OSRIC.

Poop!  I missed this thread.

One "house rule" (well, it's really not a "house rule" but more using a by the book tournament rule for the house) we use is the "Generating a party on a spur of the moment" section in the Dungeon Masters Guide, dicing up of magic items - it helps smaller, weaker parties out a tad (or it can) and gives characters a bit more than "I step on the next step down" "A punch dagger fires up at your neck and does...2 points of damage.  You're dead.  Roll up another character" after five minutes of play.

Also, speaking of 'gear, help newer players out and build a few "kits" of basic adventuring gear - rope, spikes, 10' pole, torches, rations, wine, that sort of thing and pre-configure the encumbrance and when they start, give it to them and deduct whatever starting monies it costs.

Makes getting off the ground pretty easy.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;504310Poop!  I missed this thread.

One "house rule" (well, it's really not a "house rule" but more using a by the book tournament rule for the house) we use is the "Generating a party on a spur of the moment" section in the Dungeon Masters Guide, dicing up of magic items - it helps smaller, weaker parties out a tad (or it can) and gives characters a bit more than "I step on the next step down" "A punch dagger fires up at your neck and does...2 points of damage.  You're dead.  Roll up another character" after five minutes of play.

Missed the thread? I hope not I just got back from the pub at lunch after watching the start of the cricket.

But thanks for that hint about the magic items, I'll give it a look, sounds like it could spice things up nicely.

Quote from: jeff37923;504308Magic Items in AD&D and AD&D2 had experience point values that you gained if you got that item through adventuring. That is not in OSRIC.

Incorrect. It is. Look at the DMG lists of items p. 122+. You will notice a column for the XP value, and one for the Market Price. The XP values indicated are in case the character keeps the item (p. 121), whereas items sold have their GP value directly translated as XP (p.85). Both are in OSRIC (p. 118) which explains you retain 10% of the item value if you keep it (the former case, though all the values listed in the DMG have been defaulted to a flat 10% ratio), and gain 100% of the value if you sell it (the latter case).

So it's right there. It's just worded differently. If anything, I think the 10% ratio might be a little low compared to the detail of items in the DMG, but it's there nonetheless.

Quote from: tellius;504312Missed the thread? I hope not I just got back from the pub at lunch after watching the start of the cricket.

But thanks for that hint about the magic items, I'll give it a look, sounds like it could spice things up nicely.

It does; it kind of elevates things into the realm of "here, take uncle Bilbo's old sword, Sting, and his elven chain cloak..."

I wouldn't do it if you're not starting the party at level 1, and/or if you're not running a convention game.

Quote from: tellius;504304Basically, Benoist, tell me something that works well in play and tell me another thing that you found to be pointless fluff

Something I think works really well is to just eyeball probabilities on a d6 or other die type, the rolls for dwarves p.16 for instance. You know, just not splitting endless hairs with modifiers on skills and all that bullshit and just go "ok you try that, you're a dwarf right? What armor are you wearing? Ok. Let's just say you got a 1 in 3 chance of making it. Roll 1d6." Just eyeball and move on with the game. And shift die types too to keep the players on their toes.

I use a percentile table for various oppositions too, as a house rule. Comes from RuneQuest actually. It's handy, and allows me to not slow down the game with multiple rolls or calculations of probabilities. It's simple, straightforward, it works in actual play.

Something I don't care about... weapons versus AC. I'm tempted to use them every once in a while, I like the principle of it, but in the end, I just don't need it. I feel my games are already tactical enough as they are. You can ask the players of the RPGSite here.

Quote from: Benoist;504287You mean the 1 XP for 1 GP rule, and specific value of items taken out of the dungeon and sold afterwards? (DMG p. 85)

Actually, AD&D1e had xp for any items kept, too.

So you could have the XP for the item if kept, OR the XP for the GP of the item if sold. Not both.

But simply keeping the thing for a while would give you XP.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;504322Actually, AD&D1e had xp for any items kept, too.

So you could have the XP for the item if kept, OR the XP for the GP of the item if sold. Not both.

But simply keeping the thing for a while would give you XP.

Just answered that after the post you quoted (3 posts before yours).

Quote from: tellius;504236But I would love any suggestions from veteran AD&D 1e players/ref's for running a fun game.

Decide if you want to run 1e RAW or not. There is no right answer. It depends on how you feel about what you are reading and only you know what will rock hard for your group.

BTW, there is a PDF online that is a reformatted version of OD&D in a single volume by a guy named Greyharp. Nothing changed, just edited for clarity. Worth a look if you want something equally authentic, but rules lighter.

For me, the best fun was always saying fuck it to the rules. Anything that remotely slows my game gets jettisoned. Its all about fast, crazy brutal madness with lots of horror and adventure.

I suggest at least 3rd or 4th level characters. The "fun" of having your 1st level party get TPK'd twice in one night is highly overrated. (It's more humorous when its a 4th level party).

If you love designing dungeons, go for it. If you don't or aren't sure, then whip out the DMG 1e and roll up a dungeon via Gary's tables. Don't mess with any of the numbers and roll up contents for rooms, sounds, smells and use every table in the back. THEN take the total randomness and look for patterns. Sit back and envision the story of how these elements came to be and the tale will come to you and your dungeon will come alive.

Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;504286Do you want to play 1st Edition D&D or do you want to play OSCRAP because it is two VERY DIFFERENt GAMES.

This is grogtard bullshit. Outside of the forums, nobody gives a damn about the minute differences.

99% of gamers are waaaay more concerned about pizza toppings than whether the DM is using 1e, 2e or OSRIC.