5th edition hit points... Palladium?

everloss · June 19, 2012, 02:56:08 AM

Hit points in 5th edition (the name, "DnD Next" is just too ridiculous for me) are determined in much the same way as all Palladium games. Constitution/Physical Endurance + a die roll. In 5th, the die is determined by class (Wizards get +1D4, for example), while in Palladium, it is a D6 regardless of class for most races. I thought this was noteworthy.

I just noticed this while in a flu-induced half coma at 3 in the morning. My apologies if it's already been brought up.

David Johansen · June 19, 2012, 08:49:37 AM

I've been saying 4e was awfully close to Palladium for years. I think that's partially convergent design goals. The 4e designers wanted everyone to think they were as nuts as Kevin.

Drohem · June 19, 2012, 10:26:17 AM

This type of hit point generation was done in the Arduin Grimoire Vol. 1 way back in 1977 by David A. Hargrave. Someone probably did before him too. Although, IIRC, it was CON as starting HPs and then a fixed number per level advancement. I remember reading it and really liked his example of a low-level fighter standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a high level fighter defending a staircase (?). There's nothing new under the sun.

everloss · June 19, 2012, 03:47:12 PM

Quote from: Drohem;549904This type of hit point generation was done in the Arduin Grimoire Vol. 1 way back in 1977 by David A. Hargrave. Someone probably did before him too. Although, IIRC, it was CON as starting HPs and then a fixed number per level advancement. I remember reading it and really liked his example of a low-level fighter standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a high level fighter defending a staircase (?). There's nothing new under the sun.

Interesting; I've never heard of the Arduin Grimoire. It's true, though... nothing is original.

everloss · June 19, 2012, 03:49:40 PM

Quote from: David Johansen;549889I've been saying 4e was awfully close to Palladium for years. I think that's partially convergent design goals. The 4e designers wanted everyone to think they were as nuts as Kevin.

How are Palladium and 4th edition alike? I thought that about 3rd edition, but not 4th.

The Traveller · June 19, 2012, 03:53:43 PM

Quote from: Drohem;549904There's nothing new under the sun.

Hey they've been arguing fighter versus wizard balance in D&D for almost as long. There's a lot new under the sun, just not under D&D.

David Johansen · June 19, 2012, 07:24:36 PM

Palladium to 4e? Okay, I can do it again..

HP = Con + n : HP = Con + 1d6
Power Trees : Hand to Hand Combat Skills and Magic Combat Skill (albiet a narrower range of choices but one ability / level)
n Yes / No Skills with ability fixed by level : n Yes / No Skills with ability fixed by level
decided effort to remove penalties : no stat penalties
Spell Target Number modified by caster level : Spell saving throw modified by caster level (see magic combat skill)
Many Specialized Classes : Many Specialized Classes
Rule of cool rules : Rule of cool rules

Bloody Stupid Johnson · June 19, 2012, 07:45:35 PM

Quote from: Drohem;549904This type of hit point generation was done in the Arduin Grimoire Vol. 1 way back in 1977 by David A. Hargrave. Someone probably did before him too. Although, IIRC, it was CON as starting HPs and then a fixed number per level advancement. I remember reading it and really liked his example of a low-level fighter standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a high level fighter defending a staircase (?). There's nothing new under the sun.

Compleat Arduin (I think) later revised that to get rid of all extra HPs from level advancement, and just have it all based off CON (some discussion of how extra HPs weren't 'physiologically justified' - though CA wasn't all Hargrave's work so I'm not sure if it was someone else's perspectives, rather than him refining his ideas).

Tunnels and Trolls had/has Hit Points = CON, but with characters able to raise their CON fairly readily as one option (+new level number) so that the scale wasn't too dissimilar to 5E/Palladium. In T&T damage could be very extreme though, so the unwary could still potentially go splat very quickly.