Well....this has strayed completely off topic...despite someone saying they didn't want to go off topic. It's clear someone has a bone to pick with the LDS faith.

I suggest this gets dropped before some forum bans.

That's fair enough, but the information on that specific page is accurately sourced and it's not like you're going to find much of it from the actual source when they deliberately whitewash it. LDS church history books have entire pages missing from newer editions, especially regarding these kinds of topics. The United Order and Law Of Consecration are extremely relevant to what constitutes a red category here and though it's not outwardly practiced (much like polygamy) it's still a large part of the doctrine when you get deeper into the religion. I'm trying my best to be on-topic and informative about this.

Quote from: D-ko on March 01, 2025, 04:27:44 PMThe United Order and Law Of Consecration are extremely relevant to what constitutes a red category here

Only if they overtly appear in the products.

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 02, 2025, 02:13:39 AM

Quote from: D-ko on March 01, 2025, 04:27:44 PMThe United Order and Law Of Consecration are extremely relevant to what constitutes a red category here

Only if they overtly appear in the products.

I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where Ocule left you in charge of the list and what gets someone on it.  Where was that, exactly?  Oh, wait, he didn't.  You're opposed to the list to begin with, so your opinion on it is irrelevant.  It's like an atheist trying to argue with a Christian by quoting the Bible.  Sorry, but your Alinsky-ing doesn't matter.

Part of the purpose of the list was to document people and companies who hate their consumers based on ideology or politics.  One way to show that is by putting irrelevant modern politics into the products.  Another is by statements made by the creators outside of the game.  Part of the reason Steve Jackson Games is on the list is because of his statements about his beliefs outside of his games (which got him "red" even before he started including them in the games).  He showed he hated those of us on the right, and that he would use the money from his games to support horrific lefty practices (like supporting killing pre-born children).

So, no, you don't get to gatekeep this list or who is on it.  Or gaslight those who agree with the purpose of the list.

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 02, 2025, 02:13:39 AM

Quote from: D-ko on March 01, 2025, 04:27:44 PMThe United Order and Law Of Consecration are extremely relevant to what constitutes a red category here

Only if they overtly appear in the products.

Here's the source to the quote I used. I'm not interested in arguing or getting booted from this site as I have a list to maintain-- the main reason I signed up here. I've said all that I need to say.

https://www.deseret.com/2009/2/23/20378146/lds-author-begins-new-fantasy-series/

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 02, 2025, 02:38:51 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 02, 2025, 02:13:39 AM

Quote from: D-ko on March 01, 2025, 04:27:44 PMThe United Order and Law Of Consecration are extremely relevant to what constitutes a red category here

Only if they overtly appear in the products.

I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where Ocule left you in charge of the list and what gets someone on it.  Where was that, exactly?  Oh, wait, he didn't.  You're opposed to the list to begin with, so your opinion on it is irrelevant.  It's like an atheist trying to argue with a Christian by quoting the Bible.  Sorry, but your Alinsky-ing doesn't matter.

Part of the purpose of the list was to document people and companies who hate their consumers based on ideology or politics.  One way to show that is by putting irrelevant modern politics into the products.  Another is by statements made by the creators outside of the game.  Part of the reason Steve Jackson Games is on the list is because of his statements about his beliefs outside of his games (which got him "red" even before he started including them in the games).  He showed he hated those of us on the right, and that he would use the money from his games to support horrific lefty practices (like supporting killing pre-born children).

So, no, you don't get to gatekeep this list or who is on it.  Or gaslight those who agree with the purpose of the list.

Your words mean nothing to me. You are nothing to me.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 02, 2025, 02:38:51 PMPart of the purpose of the list was to document people and companies who hate their consumers based on ideology or politics.  One way to show that is by putting irrelevant modern politics into the products.  Another is by statements made by the creators outside of the game.  Part of the reason Steve Jackson Games is on the list is because of his statements about his beliefs outside of his games (which got him "red" even before he started including them in the games).  He showed he hated those of us on the right, and that he would use the money from his games to support horrific lefty practices (like supporting killing pre-born children).

  While Tracy Hickman seems all-in on the anti-Trump bandwagon, there's no indication that his politics has made it into his writing, nor that he's gone beyond signing onto the "Gamers4Harris" petition last year. The theology doesn't fall within the boundaries of what the list was meant to address, and if it is, I'm as guilty as he is--and in one of the same works, at that.

Quote from: D-ko on March 02, 2025, 04:05:01 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 02, 2025, 02:13:39 AM

Quote from: D-ko on March 01, 2025, 04:27:44 PMThe United Order and Law Of Consecration are extremely relevant to what constitutes a red category here

Only if they overtly appear in the products.

Here's the source to the quote I used. I'm not interested in arguing or getting booted from this site as I have a list to maintain-- the main reason I signed up here. I've said all that I need to say.

https://www.deseret.com/2009/2/23/20378146/lds-author-begins-new-fantasy-series/

Wow.  I read the whole article and see absolutely nothing in it that makes it woke.  To the contrary, the last few sentences were inspiring; broadening cultural horizons and using faith as an inspiration.  someone devout in his faith is usually the woke's enemy, not woke.

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 02, 2025, 04:26:55 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 02, 2025, 02:38:51 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 02, 2025, 02:13:39 AM

Quote from: D-ko on March 01, 2025, 04:27:44 PMThe United Order and Law Of Consecration are extremely relevant to what constitutes a red category here

Only if they overtly appear in the products.

I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where Ocule left you in charge of the list and what gets someone on it.  Where was that, exactly?  Oh, wait, he didn't.  You're opposed to the list to begin with, so your opinion on it is irrelevant.  It's like an atheist trying to argue with a Christian by quoting the Bible.  Sorry, but your Alinsky-ing doesn't matter.

Part of the purpose of the list was to document people and companies who hate their consumers based on ideology or politics.  One way to show that is by putting irrelevant modern politics into the products.  Another is by statements made by the creators outside of the game.  Part of the reason Steve Jackson Games is on the list is because of his statements about his beliefs outside of his games (which got him "red" even before he started including them in the games).  He showed he hated those of us on the right, and that he would use the money from his games to support horrific lefty practices (like supporting killing pre-born children).

So, no, you don't get to gatekeep this list or who is on it.  Or gaslight those who agree with the purpose of the list.

Your words mean nothing to me. You are nothing to me.

I meant enough for you to reply.

Why not try to add something of value to this site, just for a change?  Try starting with your absence...

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 02, 2025, 04:32:22 PMWhile Tracy Hickman seems all-in on the anti-Trump bandwagon, there's no indication that his politics has made it into his writing, nor that he's gone beyond signing onto the "Gamers4Harris" petition last year.

I dunno. I'm starting to be of the opinion giving money to any of the Gamers4Harris cult is handing money to people who despise us. I doubt highly they would support authors who were Trump supporters (or even those just ambivalent about the Democrats).

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 27, 2025, 10:17:54 AM

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on February 27, 2025, 10:11:47 AMNot sure if he has been mentioned yet, but anything from Tracy Hickman belongs in the red list

Does it show in his products?

It did during the 90s wave of fake social justice. Just fairly watered down and sexist by the 2010 wave standards. I saw him grifting Dragonlance at GenCon once and just wrote him off after that.

This hobby for the most part is pretty cool.

This industry is dogshit with a side order of vomit.

Didn't Hickman get into a fight and ultimately dropped from WotC when he ultimately refused to bend the knee to modern woke?

Edited to add: Also his old dragonlance ad&d books I think got the standardized WotC -isms warnings applied.

Quote from: KindaMeh on March 03, 2025, 07:36:19 PMDidn't Hickman get into a fight and ultimately dropped from WotC when he ultimately refused to bend the knee to modern woke?

  Hickman and Weis have a long history of squabbles with TSR and WotC, mostly over the direction of Dragonlance. You may be thinking of the lawsuit over the Dragonlance Destinies Trilogy, which apparently involved disputes over plot elements and stonewalling by WotC's editorial department that some speculated might have something to do with 'unwoke' elements, but I don't know if anything was ever confirmed. (I seem to recall some discussion of a love potion as a troublesome element of the plot.)

  Dragonlance has certain elements that make it appealing to the modern 'woke' audience--preference for the marginalized, moral relativism and dismissiveness about grand concepts of Good and Evil, hostility to institutions and the 'privileged', thinly veiled anti-Catholicism--but I'm not sure how much of that is Hickman, how much is Weis, and how it's evolved over its 40-year history. Krynn and I parted ways in the late 00s, and I've only paid passing attention to what's happened with it since then.

Quote from: Omega on March 03, 2025, 05:07:13 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on February 27, 2025, 10:17:54 AM

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on February 27, 2025, 10:11:47 AMNot sure if he has been mentioned yet, but anything from Tracy Hickman belongs in the red list

Does it show in his products?

It did during the 90s wave of fake social justice. Just fairly watered down and sexist by the 2010 wave standards. I saw him grifting Dragonlance at GenCon once and just wrote him off after that.

Can you quote or link to the offending example?