Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 06, 2023, 05:16:38 PM
I have more faith in someone when they don't dance around the question. "I'm not entirely sure what you mean."

For starters that was not even a question. Arcane's response was perfectly reasonable given the mushy non-question.

Secondly, the question, if the clown avatar can manage to form a proper one, would be better posed to QB.

jeez guys, no wonder people think that the site is full of assholes, this woman just put out her product and is by all accounts nice to everybody, only talking about games and her appreciation for the OSR yet she is being shat on relentlessly, yeah she paid for a couple of her reviews and the reviewers themselves said so, that is basic marketing which is a big part of what makes a game commercially successful, for fucks sake give it a rest already, until evidence of the contrary come out, she is clearly green.

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 07, 2023, 04:40:36 AM
yeah she paid for a couple of her reviews

She paid for ONE review. Ben/Questing Beast. He makes everyone pay, apparently.
Professor Dungeonmaster says he does NOT take payment for reviews, and did not even receive a complimentary copy of the game.

I don't believe Ben Milton always gets paid. My understanding is that he doesn't review pdfs unless someone pays him to do so. When he looks at a physical book, someone usually sent him the book for free, but didn't otherwise pay him. I believe he is good about disclosing these things.

Edit: I agree that Kelsey is green. Using "ancestry" in place of "race" is mildly annoying, but not really a big deal. She mentioned in a livestream that she based the Shadowdark 3rd party license on the Mork Borg 3rd party license, but I checked and the Shadowdark license does not have an obnoxious morality clause in it like the MB license does.

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 07, 2023, 04:40:36 AM
jeez guys, no wonder people think that the site is full of assholes, this woman just put out her product and is by all accounts nice to everybody, only talking about games and her appreciation for the OSR yet she is being shat on relentlessly, yeah she paid for a couple of her reviews and the reviewers themselves said so, that is basic marketing which is a big part of what makes a game commercially successful, for fucks sake give it a rest already, until evidence of the contrary come out, she is clearly green.

There have been numerous posts on the Site defending her, criticizing Pundit, praising her game, backing her KS, and even defending her marketing.

Why would people think the Site is full of assholes? Wouldn't they think the opposite?

Quote from: Aglondir on March 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PM
Why would people think the Site is full of assholes? Wouldn't they think the opposite?

Well I agree, but the usual assumption is that the site owner controls the site as his own little kingdom and everyone has to toe the party line or get chucked out. For the average netizen the idea of a site owner who both acts like an ass, and lets people call him out on being an ass, on his own forum, doesn't really compute.   
Beyond that, hostile entities will troll a site looking for posts to take out of context, claim that represents the site ethos, and ignore all contrary evidence.

Quote from: Aglondir on March 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PM

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 07, 2023, 04:40:36 AM
jeez guys, no wonder people think that the site is full of assholes, this woman just put out her product and is by all accounts nice to everybody, only talking about games and her appreciation for the OSR yet she is being shat on relentlessly, yeah she paid for a couple of her reviews and the reviewers themselves said so, that is basic marketing which is a big part of what makes a game commercially successful, for fucks sake give it a rest already, until evidence of the contrary come out, she is clearly green.

There have been numerous posts on the Site defending her, criticizing Pundit, praising her game, backing her KS, and even defending her marketing.

Why would people think the Site is full of assholes? Wouldn't they think the opposite?

Exactly. The past few pages of this thread and the Shadowdark one clearly shows most of us here are quite supportive of her product and wishing her well.

I'm thinking of a warning sign about SJG going red.
Steve J was a regular member in a Discord group I ran.
I had a no politicizing rule.
When the COVID vaccine first came out, everyone who got vaccinated ran to my server to announce that they got their shot.
It was nice that the community was so close that they'd share the information with each other, but it was getting tiresome.
A small number of members were anti-vaxxers or at least concerned of the potential risks.  One particularly vocal anti-vaxxer posted articles or YT videos before the YT banned them, about the possible dangers of the vaccine.
It followed with some drama.
It escalated quickly, and one member said the member who posted the video was responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of people.  This was a clear violation of the server's rule against insulting, demeaning, or mistreating other members.
So, I punished that member by revoking some of the member's privileges.  I repeated something I said often, that "This server is a place where people of all kinds of viewpoints and backgrounds can come together, set aside our differences, and escape from worldly problems to enjoy our shared interest.  The member got mad and left the server.
Later on, Steve J sent me a message that I banned the wrong person, and I should have banned the anti-vaxxer for posting misinformation or something basically for disagreeing with "the science".  No... he didn't violate the rule against insulting other members.  He didn't even break the rule against attacking political views (his video/post links didn't do that).
Afterwards, I added a new rule against discussion Coronavirus entirely.
I still was surprised when I read the July 8 post, but this memory came back to me and I think, "I can see this now."  It's a shame, because Steve J is a really creative, interesting funny, and friendly guy as a person.  I have nothing against him, and pray for his well-being.  I even think he'd be my first pick, or on the top 3, if I can choose anyone to just hang out and spend some time out on the town enjoying a beer.  I just can't support his company's causes.

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 06, 2023, 05:19:26 PM
Good to know.

https://www.thearcanelibrary.com/pages/faq

the company (arcane librare) doesn't do paid promotions for her to review other books but will pay other companies to promote and review their (arcane library's) product.   There is a difference between the two and it's not hypocritical in the slightest.

I backed shadowdark at the highest level as this gets me the OSR structure that I want with rules that are familiar to my 5e players without the clunky mechanics that OSR/BX type games are known for.  Simple, easy, effective and strips the game back to a core concept.  Shadowdark is modular enough for me to pull in products from 1/2E and other OSR games with very little adjustment.   This is Veins of the Earth with a fully fledged system built around dungeon crawling, tension with no darkvision, resource constraints, and other trappings that are OSR-like but use 5e rules that people are familiar with.


If Shadowdark gets more people pulled into buying products from OSR authors this is a net win for the community. Instead of castigating Arcane Library for trying something new and diffferent embrace their success and say "I see you like Shadowdark, you can use X,Y,Z that I wrote easily enough! give it a try!"

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 07, 2023, 04:40:36 AM
jeez guys, no wonder people think that the site is full of assholes, this woman just put out her product and is by all accounts nice to everybody, only talking about games and her appreciation for the OSR yet she is being shat on relentlessly, yeah she paid for a couple of her reviews and the reviewers themselves said so, that is basic marketing which is a big part of what makes a game commercially successful, for fucks sake give it a rest already, until evidence of the contrary come out, she is clearly green.

Wish I was that slim to be honest but no, no white knighting from me, I just saw similar situations with the wokies on the other side, I will readily eat my words in case she turns out red but otherwise, I stand by what I said, I never liked this witch hunts bullshits.

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 08, 2023, 05:21:44 PM
Wish I was that slim to be honest but no, no white knighting from me, I just saw similar situations with the wokies on the other side, I will readily eat my words in case she turns out red but otherwise, I stand by what I said, I never liked this witch hunts bullshits.

I for one agree with you. We have green listers that got there with little more than "hey guys this is a good company run by veterans". Arcane gets the third degree, passes, and some people here are still suspicious.

Quote from: rytrasmi on March 08, 2023, 05:37:24 PM

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 08, 2023, 05:21:44 PM
Wish I was that slim to be honest but no, no white knighting from me, I just saw similar situations with the wokies on the other side, I will readily eat my words in case she turns out red but otherwise, I stand by what I said, I never liked this witch hunts bullshits.

I for one agree with you. We have green listers that got there with little more than "hey guys this is a good company run by veterans". Arcane gets the third degree, passes, and some people here are still suspicious.

"Hoe's are perputually mad"
—Chris Rock

Quote from: rytrasmi on March 08, 2023, 05:37:24 PM

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 08, 2023, 05:21:44 PM
Wish I was that slim to be honest but no, no white knighting from me, I just saw similar situations with the wokies on the other side, I will readily eat my words in case she turns out red but otherwise, I stand by what I said, I never liked this witch hunts bullshits.

I for one agree with you. We have green listers that got there with little more than "hey guys this is a good company run by veterans". Arcane gets the third degree, passes, and some people here are still suspicious.

That's good enough, without wokeism this list would just rank products by quality and support.

Quote from: Dispotatic254 on March 08, 2023, 08:57:34 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on March 08, 2023, 05:37:24 PM

Quote from: Abbo1993 on March 08, 2023, 05:21:44 PM
Wish I was that slim to be honest but no, no white knighting from me, I just saw similar situations with the wokies on the other side, I will readily eat my words in case she turns out red but otherwise, I stand by what I said, I never liked this witch hunts bullshits.

I for one agree with you. We have green listers that got there with little more than "hey guys this is a good company run by veterans". Arcane gets the third degree, passes, and some people here are still suspicious.

That's good enough, without wokeism this list would just rank products by quality and support.

The early days of RPG.net and ENWorld, how do i miss those days where you could find what was a good product instead of what doesn't hate you.