Quote from: Brad on January 09, 2023, 11:19:28 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 09, 2023, 11:15:08 AMI misspoke: He's going to open it up as an open game.

But it's just a typical AD&D clone...it has a couple good ideas, but honestly it's exactly the sort of game all of us probably made at one time or another in our pursuit to fix parts of AD&D we thought were wrong. Add a stat or two, rename some stuff, DEMON HALFLINGS!!!!, oh look at my cool custom classes! Yeah, exactly that. I'm not saying it's a *bad* game, just that honestly who gives a fuck? Open it or don't, it'll still just be another knock-off of the real thing.

Except, when no one actually wants the "real thing" suddenly knock-offs start looking like valid alternatives. My hunch is whoever can get closest to the SRD content without getting sued will be the long term winner (or more likely that we end up with several valid alternatives and players get more used to the idea that there are slight differences between systems).

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 09, 2023, 12:24:22 PM
Except, when no one actually wants the "real thing" suddenly knock-offs start looking like valid alternatives. My hunch is whoever can get closest to the SRD content without getting sued will be the long term winner (or more likely that we end up with several valid alternatives and players get more used to the idea that there are slight differences between systems).

At what point does no one actually want "real D&D"? That is the question that must be answered.

Quote from: Brad on January 09, 2023, 11:19:28 AM
But it's just a typical AD&D clone...  (ed: snip)
Open it or don't, it'll still just be another knock-off of the real thing.

There's a bunch of people worried that WotC is going to sue people for like, having a stat block for a dwarf.  A knockoff that has a lot of things in common with AD&D that goes fully open will essentially let someone concerned about that point to stuff in a hypothetical open license from this Wizards World game.  That's the idea at least.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 07, 2023, 10:14:19 AM
Yeah, I just looked at her thumbs, no red flag.  (ed: snip)
So far, it looks to be an actual game developer putting out an OSR game.  The art style used is right out of 1E as well.

I've done searches that should find screeching politics, if it exists, for the Arcane Library.  Whatever Kelsey Dionne's politics are, they aren't splayed across the internet or plastered across forums in crybully terms (feel free to correct me if you find otherwise).  For the purposes of this thread, I'd argue that entire thing seems green and nonpolitical, and has probably never been looked at in any detail simply due to the fact that there are a lot of small developers in that exact bucket, and it looks like most of the real body of work is coming out soon- Arcane Library could well be a notable publisher in the next few months, depending on how much traction the new work gains in industry.

Jumping the gun a little, but if the leaked changes to the OGL go through, should any company who publishes with the OGL1.1: Commercial be considered an extension of WoTC as it relates to the list?

Quote from: FingerRod on January 09, 2023, 03:57:45 PM
Jumping the gun a little, but if the leaked changes to the OGL go through, should any company who publishes with the OGL1.1: Commercial be considered an extension of WoTC as it relates to the list?

No as that is paiting too wide a brush on companies and that's not what this list is useful for.

Quote from: Brad on January 09, 2023, 01:00:17 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 09, 2023, 12:24:22 PM
Except, when no one actually wants the "real thing" suddenly knock-offs start looking like valid alternatives. My hunch is whoever can get closest to the SRD content without getting sued will be the long term winner (or more likely that we end up with several valid alternatives and players get more used to the idea that there are slight differences between systems).

At what point does no one actually want "real D&D"? That is the question that must be answered.

That assumes one considers 5e to be "real D&D." I would argue that PF1e or DCC or any of the OSR products are closer to the spirit and intent than 4e or 5e.

The genie is out of the bottle on WotC being woke. The challenge is finding companies that make quality open gaming products that "feel" like D&D. Woke doesn't "feel" like D&D. Not specifying something that doesn't need specifying is good enough (e.g. no need to scream "he's GAY" when talking about an NPC in a published product. No need to tell players they can play a trans halfling and short-circuiting DM prerogative in the process. That's up to the DM and players to decide for themselves.)

Quote from: FingerRod on January 09, 2023, 03:57:45 PM
Jumping the gun a little, but if the leaked changes to the OGL go through, should any company who publishes with the OGL1.1: Commercial be considered an extension of WoTC as it relates to the list?

No, because the wokist part of the list is (a) not in the hands of the signatory, but of wizards, and (b) not even the worst thing about it.  The list is supposed to be about companies that are using their position to push politics and intolerance, not fellow victims of a rapacious corporation.  I'd go so far as to say that the OGL thing is entirely off topic for this thread.

Quote from: Venka on January 09, 2023, 07:44:53 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on January 09, 2023, 03:57:45 PM
Jumping the gun a little, but if the leaked changes to the OGL go through, should any company who publishes with the OGL1.1: Commercial be considered an extension of WoTC as it relates to the list?

No, because the wokist part of the list is (a) not in the hands of the signatory, but of wizards, and (b) not even the worst thing about it.  The list is supposed to be about companies that are using their position to push politics and intolerance, not fellow victims of a rapacious corporation.  I'd go so far as to say that the OGL thing is entirely off topic for this thread.

Go as far as you want, hall monitor.

The commercial version, again if the leak and information holds, can lead to income for WotC. This is a buyers' guide and some are very interested in not giving WotC their money.

Separate licenses can be negotiated as well. Some of the larger companies could negotiate a nice deal for themselves, I.E. Kickstarter. Some may see that as anti-consumer.

There is this small publisher called Red Room who I think should be added to the green list, they make the Wretched series games, fairly generic OSR stuff but the settings themselves are quite interesting and they are all about keeping it real with the players and don't engage in any woke stuff, as a matter of fact they seem pretty against it.

I'll second that.  The Red Room are good people.

The living document talks about Kobald Press actively disparaging cis white males.  Does anybody have an example of this? I have heard many good things about their products, however, if that is as bad as it sounds, that is enough to ensure I do not spend any money with them.

Thanks,
Eric

Quote from: zircher on January 12, 2023, 10:42:30 AM
I'll second that.  The Red Room are good people.

Red room is on green already, original post isn't being updated so I stickied a perma link to the full doc.

"Go Woke, Go Broke."  It's often true.

I recommended Steve Jackson Games be moved to the red list 6 months ago.  I was curious to see if the company's decisions affected interest.  SJ Games has its own forums, and I wanted to see if traffic changed, and in which direction.  For objectivity, I chose to examine DAILY ILLUMINATOR a category.  That's because it's one that updates daily and new posts get traffic in the first day or so only, so I know its traffic is consistant.

The change was dramatic:  Comparing a year ago (6 months before coming out as an extremist) to today (6 months after), traffic dropped significantly, with averages from 300 to 400 a year ago dropping to 100-200 today.  High days went from 900s to 300s.

Here's a comparison of Jan 2022 to Jan 2023.

Interesting analysis.  Thanks for sharing.

Quote from: Ocule on January 12, 2023, 03:33:17 PM

Quote from: zircher on January 12, 2023, 10:42:30 AM
I'll second that.  The Red Room are good people.

Red room is on green already, original post isn't being updated so I stickied a perma link to the full doc.

Is it possible to get rid of the original list from the first post and replace it with a perma-link too? It seems some people are still confusing the two.