Quote from: I on December 11, 2022, 07:59:22 AM

Quote from: PulpHerb on December 09, 2022, 01:26:38 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 09, 2022, 09:42:33 AM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on December 09, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
I'm wondering if Games Workshop needs to be on yellow or red due to the thread that tenbones posted?

They should be yellow IMO. Here's a translation of the Polish FB post from another forum (the FB post itself seems to have been deleted):

I'm surprised they aren't already from the "Warhammer is for Everyone" stuff and how it was used against certain fans, especially on YouTube.

I don't know that they qualify as "RED" for the purposes of this list, but they've been on my personal red list ever since they told customers like me not to buy from them, and I won't be missed.  They had pissed me off with the Youtube thing already.  GW seems to be in a race with Disney to see just how bad they can damage their own brand.

Strangely they have not "gone broke" yet.  I still see alot of youtubers doing videos on their stuff, and their sales seem to be strong.  Though, a semi-woke friend of mine is starting to get tired of their business tactics and is eyeing another war game to replace Warhammer.  The only time GW ever gets money from me is if I cannot find a paint that isn't duplicated by an alternative company, I avoid giving them cash as much as possible.

Quote from: erc1971 on December 12, 2022, 04:02:04 PM

Quote from: I on December 11, 2022, 07:59:22 AM

Quote from: PulpHerb on December 09, 2022, 01:26:38 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 09, 2022, 09:42:33 AM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on December 09, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
I'm wondering if Games Workshop needs to be on yellow or red due to the thread that tenbones posted?

They should be yellow IMO. Here's a translation of the Polish FB post from another forum (the FB post itself seems to have been deleted):

I'm surprised they aren't already from the "Warhammer is for Everyone" stuff and how it was used against certain fans, especially on YouTube.

I don't know that they qualify as "RED" for the purposes of this list, but they've been on my personal red list ever since they told customers like me not to buy from them, and I won't be missed.  They had pissed me off with the Youtube thing already.  GW seems to be in a race with Disney to see just how bad they can damage their own brand.

Strangely they have not "gone broke" yet.  I still see alot of youtubers doing videos on their stuff, and their sales seem to be strong.  Though, a semi-woke friend of mine is starting to get tired of their business tactics and is eyeing another war game to replace Warhammer.  The only time GW ever gets money from me is if I cannot find a paint that isn't duplicated by an alternative company, I avoid giving them cash as much as possible.

Recommend Onepagerule's Grimdark Future its basically a simplified 40k. It reminds me of early 8th edition when using the indexes

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on December 12, 2022, 12:04:04 PM

Quote from: I on December 11, 2022, 07:59:22 AM

I don't know that they qualify as "RED" for the purposes of this list, but they've been on my personal red list ever since they told customers like me not to buy from them, and I won't be missed.  They had pissed me off with the Youtube thing already.  GW seems to be in a race with Disney to see just how bad they can damage their own brand.

I'm intrigued....and ignorant to this. Got any good links?

Well, there are many places I could link to.  Here's just one that discusses the issue:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/07/03/warhammer-fan-pens-open-letter-criticizing-games-workshops-divisive-diversity-statement/

I think you could just do a browser search for "Games Workshop + you won't be missed" and come up with all sorts of stuff, from all points of view.  If their statement would have said something like what they already said, but then added, "and if you're the sort who wants to burn, loot and murder your way across the land like a Khornate Beastman herd to advance your political position, you won't be missed either" I might have thought they were just being fair and not taken offense.  But they didn't, and as their open letter to fans came at the height of the BLM scourge, it's obvious whose side they were taking.  So fuck them.  They might not miss me, but they might miss my money eventually.  As an earlier poster stated, it doesn't seem to be affecting their bottom line too much, but that's neither here not there.  Like many folks here, I don't give my money to people who don't appreciate my business.  I'll still obtain any of their stuff I want to, anyway... the only difference is, now I just won't PAY for it.

Their Youtube crackdown was also well-documented, so a web search will reveal plenty about that too.  It was truly stupid, as fans were giving Games Workshop all sorts of free publicity that wasn't costing them a dime.  I get that they need to protect their IP, but surely there are better ways of doing it than the hamfisted way they went about it.

Quote from: I on December 12, 2022, 10:41:44 PM
Well, there are many places I could link to.  Here's just one that discusses the issue:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/07/03/warhammer-fan-pens-open-letter-criticizing-games-workshops-divisive-diversity-statement/

I think you could just do a browser search for "Games Workshop + you won't be missed" and come up with all sorts of stuff, from all points of view.

For me "for everyone" is always a red flag. A lot of people want to read it as "for anyone" (and I think the PR flacks are hoping you do) but the two statements are different.

"For anyone" implies that anyone who wants to cross whatever the baseline threshold for a hobby, from learning basic stiched in knitting to reading a rules book for Warhammer, are welcome to do so and join the fray.

"For everyone" implies you can just belly up, just as you are with no putting yourself out in anyway, and play.

"Monopoloy is for everyone" and that's fine. Making something like Warhammer (or D&D) for everyone is reducing it to Monopoly.  Why spend all that money on books, minis, etc when the same experience can be had with a LotR or GoT or whatever the current hot generic fantasy series is branded Monopoly game?

Quote from: I on December 12, 2022, 10:41:44 PM
Well, there are many places I could link to.  Here's just one that discusses the issue:

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/07/03/warhammer-fan-pens-open-letter-criticizing-games-workshops-divisive-diversity-statement/

I think you could just do a browser search for "Games Workshop + you won't be missed" and come up with all sorts of stuff, from all points of view.  If their statement would have said something like what they already said, but then added, "and if you're the sort who wants to burn, loot and murder your way across the land like a Khornate Beastman herd to advance your political position, you won't be missed either" I might have thought they were just being fair and not taken offense.  But they didn't, and as their open letter to fans came at the height of the BLM scourge, it's obvious whose side they were taking...

Thanks I, I appreciate it.

Quote from: Hzilong on December 10, 2022, 03:48:47 AM

Quote from: Tasty_Wind on December 10, 2022, 12:41:53 AM
I don't know if this counts for anything, but I recently got Cy_Borg (a cyberpunk hack for Mörk Borg), and it had a sensitivity reader.
Now nothing in the book was woke, I just thought it was weird that this black metal inspired game set in a post apocalyptic neon hellscape where life is cheap, nothing mattered and you're going to die brutally and alone was a weird place to see a sensitivity reader. I'm not a fan of the genre, but wasn't the whole point of black metal to be as blasphemous and offensive as possible?

The company behind Mork Borg is already in the red list for their antics. Which is a bit of a shame as, from people who have actually played it, it sounds like it's a decent game if you ignore their overt political stuff and dodgy business dealings.

The game is awesome. The discord is full of mentally ill groomers which the creators support.

I nominate my company for green if this list is still being updated. I've been around the block long enough now I think some of you might know about me, the Chronicles of Aeres aka Dueling Dragon Adventures.

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 09, 2022, 09:42:33 AM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on December 09, 2022, 09:35:26 AM
I'm wondering if Games Workshop needs to be on yellow or red due to the thread that tenbones posted?

They should be yellow IMO. Here's a translation of the Polish FB post from another forum (the FB post itself seems to have been deleted):

Quote
https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/376722-gw-drops-liber-chaotica-until-its-revised/

The long-announced position of Liber Chaotica, unfortunately, will not be published in Polish for reasons beyond our control. We realize that this information is disappointing and even devastating for you. You can believe us that we feel the same way. Liber Chaotica is an esteemed title that many of you have been waiting for. We feel obliged to provide you with an explanation of the situation. Games Workshop - the owner of the rights to the Warhammer brands - has pointed out that Liber Chaotica, originally released in 2006, contains content that is inconsistent with the company's values now, almost 20 years later. Therefore, Liber Chaotica cannot be published in Polish in its known form, and probably there will be no reprints of this item in the English version. Of course, we are saddened by this fact, but as a publisher, we understand that Games Workshop cares about the company's image. This is a priority for them and we have no choice but to accept our partner's decision. This is a very difficult situation for us. We devoted a lot of time and work to this position. We would like to thank the team: Grzegorz Bonikowski, Piotr Narloch, Janek Podraza, Joanna Podraza, Paweł Potakowski, Adam Stefańczyk and Rafał Zduński, for their commitment. We had no influence on the situation, but we still feel obliged to apologize to you, our readers, for not being able to provide you with the long-awaited title. We're really sorry about that. Does Liber Chaotica have a chance to appear in the future? We do not know. It has been suggested that this could happen after the text is first changed on the Black Library side to match today's Games Workshop standards. Will there be anything to replace Liber Chaotica? Yes. We have obtained permission to release the album The Horus Heresy - Visions of Heresy, but for obvious reasons it will have to wait. We thank you in advance for your understanding regarding this situation.

It is my understanding that WFRP 2e was the biggest fantasy RPG in Poland for quite some time, so there is certainly a fanbase there.

I get the impression that the translation was done, and GW said: "changed our minds, sorry not sorry."

Pointing out the release dates is a roundabout way of them saying: "Dude, WTF!?"

It'll be in Polish, so who cares!? Nobody else will be able to read it!

When you are actively censoring your own back catalogue... Wow.

Quote from: Hopladamus on December 11, 2022, 06:12:45 AM
I just want to remind Ocule that Gabor Lux (First Hungarian d20 Society) and Jon Torres (The Basic Expert) should be added to the green list.

Helveczia is the business. It has the best alignment system I've seen for any game. A shame that it's a boxed set, I'd be interested to see Pundit's take on it.

Ill add em just give me a few to go through all the recommendations and see if i can dig up on the company. If i havnt put gw on red by now they definitely will be.  Woke or not woke aside theyre one of the most predatory companies ive seen in a long time

Thanks TS.

Painful to read about DCC, but it is what it is.

Quote from: erc1971 on December 12, 2022, 04:02:04 PM
Strangely they have not "gone broke" yet.  I still see alot of youtubers doing videos on their stuff, and their sales seem to be strong.  Though, a semi-woke friend of mine is starting to get tired of their business tactics and is eyeing another war game to replace Warhammer.  The only time GW ever gets money from me is if I cannot find a paint that isn't duplicated by an alternative company, I avoid giving them cash as much as possible.

I think their business practices will be their doom more than woke.

One, outside of that one statement I haven't heard of it filtering out to official events.  A lot of people who might be pissed off probably missed it.

The real complaints I hear about them are not updating factions before yet another revision, balance being horrible, and the effectiveness pricing model.

If the rumors about "female Space Marines" are true, though, that might be woke that hurts them.

Quote from: PulpHerb on December 16, 2022, 04:21:01 PM

Quote from: erc1971 on December 12, 2022, 04:02:04 PM
Strangely they have not "gone broke" yet.  I still see alot of youtubers doing videos on their stuff, and their sales seem to be strong.  Though, a semi-woke friend of mine is starting to get tired of their business tactics and is eyeing another war game to replace Warhammer.  The only time GW ever gets money from me is if I cannot find a paint that isn't duplicated by an alternative company, I avoid giving them cash as much as possible.

I think their business practices will be their doom more than woke.

One, outside of that one statement I haven't heard of it filtering out to official events.  A lot of people who might be pissed off probably missed it.

The real complaints I hear about them are not updating factions before yet another revision, balance being horrible, and the effectiveness pricing model.

If the rumors about "female Space Marines" are true, though, that might be woke that hurts them.

Of course Henry Cavill's announcement is going to make them oodles of dollars!

Anyone know where Brave Halfling Publishing falls on the list?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2505/Brave-Halfling-Publishing

Quote from: Willmark on December 17, 2022, 11:08:54 AM
Anyone know where Brave Halfling Publishing falls on the list?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2505/Brave-Halfling-Publishing

I own most (all?) of their product. Don't remember a hint of politics or preaching in them. Haven't heard any from the owner either, but don't seek out what he writes so I could have missed something.

Quote from: Godsmonkey on December 12, 2022, 07:30:19 AM
I would like to nominate  The Rune^Forge games for inclusion on the green list.

I own three of their products (Neon Blood, Preternatural Chrome and Task Force Raven) Not only have I not found any "woke" agenda in the books, the writer seems subtly based, but does not push an agenda.

He is also current military AFAIK. And the game materials are pretty good as well. (OSR and Savage Worlds)

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/11696/The-RuneForge

Thanks for confirming my thoughts! The author's also provided good support on the game on Discord.