What about Worlds Without Number by Kevin Crawford? I haven't played it but if it's anything like his other OSR games, it's probably gonna be pretty fast-paced.

May I second the "Catalyst to red" sentiment following their decision to fire their most profitable writer because of some far-left stalker?

Edit: off topic commentary redacted following "oh the admins warned the thread - whoops"
Edit 2: I'll also note that after pouring over the Savage Worlds Game Master Guide I'm honestly not wholly sure how to feel about it.
They very much did a woke checklist, but then immediately backhand it as being just a checklist.

"All are welcome; while player age is the main focus of this chapter, we hope all new players find a welcoming environment regardless of their physical or cognitive limitations, age, race, culture, gender or gender identity, socioeconomic status, or other 'backstory' details.  These details are what make our characters more interesting.  Please consider embracing diversity at your game table too!"
This kind of stuff comes off as massive red flags to me considering all we've been through, but then they follow it with-
"My wife has always been part of our group, as have several of my friends' wives.  The character on the cover of the gunslinger book, Law Dogs, way back in 1997, was a lady sheriff.  I also served in the military with people of all backgrounds and wanted them to feel comfortable at the table.  I wanted EVERYONE to feel like Clint Eastwood's 'Man with No Name', or whatever trope they were going for without having to worry about their ethnicity, sexual preference, or relgion.  To that end, women and minorities hold positions of power in the Weird West.
We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.  We prefer to just make it part of the world, to show and not tell.
We take a similar approach to slavery in Deadlands.  We don't erase it, we just focus elsewhere because we don't want players or the GM to have to bring that kind of ugliness into their entertainment.  Of course in your HOME games you can as long as it sounds like everyone would be comfortable tackling darker topics."

>We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.
Because it is, because they recognize the difference between having a principle and having an agenda.

Final Edit (sorry mods, just avoiding spam-posting): My wife recently got "My Father's Work" the board game, we completley missed it was by Renegade Game Studios and yeah, we can confirm "constant preaching" is alive and well from them even outside their RPGs...  Really jarring to be skimming a rulebook then "Page 25 - XENOPHOBIA AND YOU" followed by a curse-word littered rant about how white people are the worst culture to exist.

Quote from: TrueWOPR on August 20, 2022, 02:58:50 AM
Edit 2: I'll also note that after pouring over the Savage Worlds Game Master Guide I'm honestly not wholly sure how to feel about it.
They very much did a woke checklist, but then immediately backhand it as being just a checklist.

"All are welcome; while player age is the main focus of this chapter, we hope all new players find a welcoming environment regardless of their physical or cognitive limitations, age, race, culture, gender or gender identity, socioeconomic status, or other 'backstory' details.  These details are what make our characters more interesting.  Please consider embracing diversity at your game table too!"
This kind of stuff comes off as massive red flags to me considering all we've been through, but then they follow it with-
"My wife has always been part of our group, as have several of my friends' wives.  The character on the cover of the gunslinger book, Law Dogs, way back in 1997, was a lady sheriff.  I also served in the military with people of all backgrounds and wanted them to feel comfortable at the table.  I wanted EVERYONE to feel like Clint Eastwood's 'Man with No Name', or whatever trope they were going for without having to worry about their ethnicity, sexual preference, or relgion.  To that end, women and minorities hold positions of power in the Weird West.
We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.  We prefer to just make it part of the world, to show and not tell.
We take a similar approach to slavery in Deadlands.  We don't erase it, we just focus elsewhere because we don't want players or the GM to have to bring that kind of ugliness into their entertainment.  Of course in your HOME games you can as long as it sounds like everyone would be comfortable tackling darker topics."

>We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.
Because it is, because they recognize the difference between having a principle and having an agenda.

Yeah not counting their third-party authors, I really think Shane and Clint are just trying to tip-toe that fine line between the left and right, that they're not willing to risk offending either side.

Which is perfectly fine by me, so long as they don't tell me what I'm allowed or not allowed to think.

Quote from: mudbanks on August 20, 2022, 05:52:14 AM
Yeah not counting their third-party authors, I really think Shane and Clint are just trying to tip-toe that fine line between the left and right, that they're not willing to risk offending either side.

Which is perfectly fine by me, so long as they don't tell me what I'm allowed or not allowed to think.

Yeah, quite honestly I'm happy with how they handled it even though I rolled my eyes seeing the list - just felt I should mention that section for the rest of the community to consider when weighing the numbers.

Still annoyed at Renegade though.

Quote from: mudbanks on August 20, 2022, 01:58:10 AM
What about Worlds Without Number by Kevin Crawford? I haven't played it but if it's anything like his other OSR games, it's probably gonna be pretty fast-paced.

Can't believe I missed him, just added noble knight games to green. You can get the core rulebooks for free off his website and see for yourself but he seems cool. Worlds without number is top notch.

Quote from: TrueWOPR on August 20, 2022, 02:58:50 AM
May I second the "Catalyst to red" sentiment following their decision to fire their most profitable writer because of some far-left stalker?

Edit: off topic commentary redacted following "oh the admins warned the thread - whoops"
Edit 2: I'll also note that after pouring over the Savage Worlds Game Master Guide I'm honestly not wholly sure how to feel about it.
They very much did a woke checklist, but then immediately backhand it as being just a checklist.

"All are welcome; while player age is the main focus of this chapter, we hope all new players find a welcoming environment regardless of their physical or cognitive limitations, age, race, culture, gender or gender identity, socioeconomic status, or other 'backstory' details.  These details are what make our characters more interesting.  Please consider embracing diversity at your game table too!"
This kind of stuff comes off as massive red flags to me considering all we've been through, but then they follow it with-
"My wife has always been part of our group, as have several of my friends' wives.  The character on the cover of the gunslinger book, Law Dogs, way back in 1997, was a lady sheriff.  I also served in the military with people of all backgrounds and wanted them to feel comfortable at the table.  I wanted EVERYONE to feel like Clint Eastwood's 'Man with No Name', or whatever trope they were going for without having to worry about their ethnicity, sexual preference, or relgion.  To that end, women and minorities hold positions of power in the Weird West.
We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.  We prefer to just make it part of the world, to show and not tell.
We take a similar approach to slavery in Deadlands.  We don't erase it, we just focus elsewhere because we don't want players or the GM to have to bring that kind of ugliness into their entertainment.  Of course in your HOME games you can as long as it sounds like everyone would be comfortable tackling darker topics."

>We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.
Because it is, because they recognize the difference between having a principle and having an agenda.

Final Edit (sorry mods, just avoiding spam-posting): My wife recently got "My Father's Work" the board game, we completley missed it was by Renegade Game Studios and yeah, we can confirm "constant preaching" is alive and well from them even outside their RPGs...  Really jarring to be skimming a rulebook then "Page 25 - XENOPHOBIA AND YOU" followed by a curse-word littered rant about how white people are the worst culture to exist.

Moved catalyst to red. Its been a while since i've dont proper updates but I also kinda wanted to see how this situation resolved before jumping the gun. Renegade is kind of expected to to stupid shit like that. Wizard tower games, not sure if id endorse them they just have a single whiney video

Quote from: mudbanks on August 20, 2022, 05:52:14 AM

Quote from: TrueWOPR on August 20, 2022, 02:58:50 AM
Edit 2: I'll also note that after pouring over the Savage Worlds Game Master Guide I'm honestly not wholly sure how to feel about it.
They very much did a woke checklist, but then immediately backhand it as being just a checklist.

"All are welcome; while player age is the main focus of this chapter, we hope all new players find a welcoming environment regardless of their physical or cognitive limitations, age, race, culture, gender or gender identity, socioeconomic status, or other 'backstory' details.  These details are what make our characters more interesting.  Please consider embracing diversity at your game table too!"
This kind of stuff comes off as massive red flags to me considering all we've been through, but then they follow it with-
"My wife has always been part of our group, as have several of my friends' wives.  The character on the cover of the gunslinger book, Law Dogs, way back in 1997, was a lady sheriff.  I also served in the military with people of all backgrounds and wanted them to feel comfortable at the table.  I wanted EVERYONE to feel like Clint Eastwood's 'Man with No Name', or whatever trope they were going for without having to worry about their ethnicity, sexual preference, or relgion.  To that end, women and minorities hold positions of power in the Weird West.
We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.  We prefer to just make it part of the world, to show and not tell.
We take a similar approach to slavery in Deadlands.  We don't erase it, we just focus elsewhere because we don't want players or the GM to have to bring that kind of ugliness into their entertainment.  Of course in your HOME games you can as long as it sounds like everyone would be comfortable tackling darker topics."

>We didn't TALK about it before as that feels like self-congratulatory pandering.
Because it is, because they recognize the difference between having a principle and having an agenda.

Yeah not counting their third-party authors, I really think Shane and Clint are just trying to tip-toe that fine line between the left and right, that they're not willing to risk offending either side.

Which is perfectly fine by me, so long as they don't tell me what I'm allowed or not allowed to think.

I agree.  I don't feel that Pinnacle is woke - but they have received flak in the past (especially for Deadlands). It appears to me that they are doing this just to get the woke crowd off their back so they can keep just making books.  After all, Deadlands does have the Wichita Witches, which are definitely NOT woke, being hot babes scantily clad in black leather.

Pinnacle seems to be going for a Moderate/Mild Progressive alignment on the political axis, but a Quiet or Neutral level of overtness with it. Troll Lord is probably Conservative but very Quiet about it, Paizo and WotC are examples of Progressive and Overt, and Evil Hat and Green Ronin are Progressive and openly Hostile to disagreement.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 26, 2022, 06:15:18 PM
Pinnacle seems to be going for a Moderate/Mild Progressive alignment on the political axis, but a Quiet or Neutral level of overtness with it. Troll Lord is probably Conservative but very Quiet about it, Paizo and WotC are examples of Progressive and Overt, and Evil Hat and Green Ronin are Progressive and openly Hostile to disagreement.

I really wish Paizo wasn't woke as fuck. PF2E is such a good system but the woke shit puts a stain on it.

Though I feel like they're less wine than WotC since at least races still have somewhat biology driven bonuses.

Quote from: Ocule on August 26, 2022, 03:47:02 PM
Can't believe I missed him, just added noble knight games to green. You can get the core rulebooks for free off his website and see for yourself but he seems cool. Worlds without number is top notch.

I believe you're thinking of "Sine Nomine Games". Noble Knight Games sells OOP games

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 26, 2022, 06:15:18 PM
Pinnacle seems to be going for a Moderate/Mild Progressive alignment on the political axis, but a Quiet or Neutral level of overtness with it. Troll Lord is probably Conservative but very Quiet about it, Paizo and WotC are examples of Progressive and Overt, and Evil Hat and Green Ronin are Progressive and openly Hostile to disagreement.

Do you have any on Green Ronin by the way?
I've completely avoided their new works when they announced Blue Rose (a women only hiring spree to my understanding.)
Loved their old products, but didn't play anything they made after 2011.

The list and info on the first page gets running updates:

QuoteGreen Ronin (Blue Rose, Song of Ice and Fire RPG, Dragon Age RPG) - Chris Pramas is a self described member of ANTIFA Link (see his bio on twitter), has a vitriolic hatred for white people, and his products reflect this. Publishes "Blue Rose", the gay RPG. Proto SJWs, they were making political statements in their games before anyone else was.

Quote from: 5Solas on August 20, 2022, 12:01:44 AM
4 people but i want to run solo on my own at times.  I'll check out LotFP and Pacesetter Games. DCC seemed perfect. What a bummer. 

   Though I agree with the sentiment of do not give money to people who hate you....I am not certain if Goodman Games hates me or if they simply have to "pay the mafia" so there is no "be a shame if something happened to your nice business" scenario played out.   So even if a company is red.... I do have the habit of weighing how red they are versus how good their game is.  If I did not already have DCC, but I knew how good it was (to my style of play and games I enjoy, everything is subjective) I would honestly buy it anyway based off the things that got them on the red list (which look alot like "mafia payoffs" versus overt pushing of an agenda) because the game is good.   Just something to consider.

Quote from: oggsmash on August 29, 2022, 03:59:41 PM
So even if a company is red.... I do have the habit of weighing how red they are versus how good their game is.  If I did not already have DCC, but I knew how good it was (to my style of play and games I enjoy, everything is subjective) I would honestly buy it anyway based off the things that got them on the red list (which look alot like "mafia payoffs" versus overt pushing of an agenda) because the game is good.   Just something to consider.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.  The woke list isn't a dictate, a directive, or any kind of instructions on what to do.  It's merely there for gamers to be informed about the decisions they make for themselves.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on August 29, 2022, 08:36:14 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on August 29, 2022, 03:59:41 PM
So even if a company is red.... I do have the habit of weighing how red they are versus how good their game is.  If I did not already have DCC, but I knew how good it was (to my style of play and games I enjoy, everything is subjective) I would honestly buy it anyway based off the things that got them on the red list (which look alot like "mafia payoffs" versus overt pushing of an agenda) because the game is good.   Just something to consider.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.  The woke list isn't a dictate, a directive, or any kind of instructions on what to do.  It's merely there for gamers to be informed about the decisions they make for themselves.

  And I agree with it on that basis.  I just also realize many, many publishers are terrified of that twitter mob, and lots of the virtue signaling I see looks a lot like paying off the mafia to not burn your business.  I suspect most publishers would rather just stay quiet and make the best stuff they can.  There are some who are raging activists and go to great lengths to establish that...to me that is a good way for me to not buy your stuff no matter how good it is.  I just think some are more on the edge of red....DCC and Goodman games seems more on the edge.  I think everything can have a bit of nuance in it, and I think the list is a useful guide for a buyer to take a deeper look on their own...I personally do not go or no go simply based off of one observation.  That said, I think the list is pretty accurate, but being on the right of "modern" politics also means I think and act for myself so it will always be a loose guide for me versus a go-no go. 

  I mean speaking frankly game designers/publishers are the nerds who sat in a circle in the gym during recess or PE.  They are trained to take shit from bullies and just do as directed when the bullies show up.  Holding them to account for every "bad" action is like blaming a battered wife or abused child for every bad decision when they have a lifetime of being "trained" to conform with the bully or get mashed.

Where Does Appendix N, fall on this list?