Quote from: DocJones on July 27, 2022, 01:42:32 PM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 27, 2022, 01:03:36 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on July 27, 2022, 11:49:19 AM

Here's what you misunderstand: Ocule's list is about products and companies. Not individuals.

(Edit to add link)

That's another thing to note: The post on SJG's policy was Steve Jackson speaking on behalf of his entire company.  I wondered if any employees felt alienated by that.

Also, the company released a T-Shirt with a pro-abortion bumper sticker slogan, featuring a character from Munchkin.

And it wasn't just about "we support a right to abortion"...
Oh hell no. 

Instead it was a unhinged hyperbolic rant that made references to gay marriage, a "federal binary standard that ...wipes out transgender treatment" (whatever the hell that means), voter suppression (?), anti second amendment rights, a national tithe (?).

...while referring to anyone who might oppose these opinions as indecent, certain named democratically elected officials as "bought and paid for by the people who brought you Trump and Fox News", accusing the right of "viciously fostering" mass shootings, and of course the references to "theofascist" and "national tithing" indicates a rather infantile view of those who oppose abortion on demand as only religious people.

So much hate.  Disgusting.

I like the line he put about encouraging gamers to support "honest politicians".  Please, show me one so I know what that looks like! XD

Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 27, 2022, 02:43:27 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha
You don't want to engage; you want a confession.

All of your response ignores this simple point.  No one has to admit anything, because you don't get to define what this list is, nor what it is claimed to be.  The only reason to do so is to cast aspersions at it.  Period.

I don't engage on every aspect of your message because you completely misunderstand our relationship. I understand well that we're peers. I understand what you want, but I don't feel that I can convince you so I am not trying very hard.

There's other individuals here in the thread that have a different opinion than I do, but they recognize what I am saying, and it was mostly them that I wanted introduce the idea to.

Look at the other posts that happened after mine: the thing you're saying was so clearly understood by others... Doesn't seem to be. Or at least, there is some discussion. There's nuance, as someone later points out.

So, no, I don't want a confession from you. I have no interest in it, have no right to it, wouldn't be able to get it, and ... Well, once again, a confession is a misunderstanding of our relationship. We're merely peers. I recognize that.

And while you may conflate yourself with the list, I honestly haven't done that. I recognize that you have your opinion, Ocule has another, and others in this forum have their own.  I've had some pleasant conversations with folks in the past, and I pop in and say a bit, then return to a lurking state. I'm fine if you're not interested in my words, so feel free to disengage or even to criticize me further. It's all good.

And I figure that most of you can take occasional questioning from some rando on the internet now and then without too much distress.

Quote from: Aglondir on July 27, 2022, 11:49:19 AM
Earlier in this thread I defended SJG as Green. I argued they were non-political. I pointed out how Phil Reed was slammed by the mods at TBP for trying to explain that the disad "slave mentality" in Gurps has nothing to do with slavery.

But no longer.

Here's what you misunderstand: Ocule's list is about products and companies. Not individuals.

Oh, I know that's the intent. I'm pretty sure Ocule keeps pretty close to that intent, and when I notice a bit of drift while I lurk, I point it out. Then I go back to lurking.

A lot of my comments are to fellow posters, who I suspect are requesting that drift.

SJG is an interesting case, not just because of recent events, but because Ocule got some insider info that ... I am curious about, but I recognize and understand he's protecting the confidence of his source. So it was already red, but here we are talking about what SJG did as an individual. (as we have done in the thread previously.)

Before this recent Roe vs Wade post, he and others in SJG donated to the October Surprise/Hillary campaign. Folks had talked all about that back then too. But, y'know, individuals and free speech being what it is, there was not a lot of appearance of it in the products, and the company itself didn't participate other than to appear as the place of employment for the individuals that loaned their name to that website.

I've said it before, the difference between the folks in this thread is whether or not being red serves as a warning sign or an advertisement. I'm extremely interested in WHY someone gets put red, and I might check it out, whereas others might find that a good reason to stay away.

So we have a shared interest in the list. I appreciate when it's not just "dude who drew the art on page five donates to the local dog catcher who said the military budget is too big," I'd rather see it be something substantial. Just so it serves its purpose for all of us.

Quote from: DocJones on July 27, 2022, 01:42:32 PM
Instead it was a unhinged hyperbolic rant that made references to gay marriage, a "federal binary standard that ...wipes out transgender treatment" (whatever the hell that means), voter suppression (?), anti second amendment rights, a national tithe (?).

...while referring to anyone who might oppose these opinions as indecent, certain named democratically elected officials as "bought and paid for by the people who brought you Trump and Fox News", accusing the right of "viciously fostering" mass shootings, and of course the references to "theofascist" and "national tithing" indicates a rather infantile view of those who oppose abortion on demand as only religious people.

I suspect you may have internalized bits of this that were very obviously directed at specific politicians and judges who haven't been shy with making those actual statements. I can't really detail it much here, but many of these things have been said publicly by politicians without irony.  In order to avoid breaking forum rules, I'll leave it at that.

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 27, 2022, 01:22:13 PM
I have mixed feelings about the list precisely because it comes off like an "enemies list" regardless of any valid justifications we may provide for it, because essentially it IS an "enemies list".

I didn't quote your entire message because... It was pretty much exactly what I was thinking. I mean, every bit of it. (and while I might be acting a little childish with my pointing out "only the left makes an enemies list" ... that's just me bringing up what was said to me earlier in the thread, but ... I should really cut it out.)

There is nuance, you have justifications, and in my case I am interested in hearing about them.

People that I don't agree with are going to have debate and discussion, and sometimes I find common ground with someone on one topic and disagree on another, and that's ... interesting.

As long as Pundit permits me to pop in now and then and say a few things, I might revisit and participate. Just to say something like, "we seem to be going off a weird direction." And then return to lurking when it returns to less interesting topics.  (I've visited some of the other threads, but for most of those... Eh, you guys have your thing, the seal was broken on this thread. heh.)

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 27, 2022, 03:03:35 PM
I like the line he put about encouraging gamers to support "honest politicians".  Please, show me one so I know what that looks like! XD

This is a good thing to end my post on... one of the few things that everyone of every political opinion seems to agree on. haha

"Woke" is apparently an offensive word now, so feel free to go back to using the term "hippy pinko scumbag."

Catalyst Games Labs has gotten a big fat Red mark for firing a writer who has been getting harassed by the woke. Details in the thread below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/other-games/blaine-lee-pardo-cancelled-by-catalyst-game-labs/new/#new

Is the new Hunter the Reckoning 5E safe from woke nonsense?

Quote from: Timothe on July 28, 2022, 11:42:52 AM
"Woke" is apparently an offensive word now, so feel free to go back to using the term "hippy pinko scumbag."

How about apparatchik?

Quote from: Monero on August 04, 2022, 05:40:20 PM
Is the new Hunter the Reckoning 5E safe from woke nonsense?

LOL, my brain actually parsed that as "Hunter Biden the Retconing".  Either it is getting late or my snarkiness is getting out of control (okay, maybe both.)

Chaosium has now tipped into the red. This from the Keepers Tips.

Quote"Even if aiming for historical accuracy, there's no need to lean on bigoted or misogynistic elements of our collective past. If you insist on there being a narrative purpose for such elements, discuss them with each player separately ahead of time".

Quote"Inclusivity matters. Offer a diverse cast of investigators and non-player characters (NPCs) that are BIPOC, LGBTQ+, varying sexual identities, disabled, and more!"

They have also taken a leaf from the Amazon Rings of Power crew and are producing videos and using urnalist activists to push the woke agenda they have for Pendragon 6th edtion. Women knights are now manadatory, the pregens of the starter set are going to be diverse like those of the Cthulhu Starter Set ,including a middle eastern knight. Also Picts will now be Central Asians.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBkwgm9YIm8&ab_channel=Chaosium
https://www.polygon.com/23290932/pendragon-6th-edition-preview-the-green-knight-crusader-kings

Quote from: Gagarth on August 05, 2022, 10:33:08 AM
They have also taken a leaf from the Amazon Rings of Power crew and are producing videos and using urnalist activists to push the woke agenda they have for Pendragon 6th edtion. Women knights are now manadatory, the pregens of the starter set are going to be diverse like those of the Cthulhu Starter Set ,including a middle eastern knight. Also Picts will now be Central Asians.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBkwgm9YIm8&ab_channel=Chaosium
https://www.polygon.com/23290932/pendragon-6th-edition-preview-the-green-knight-crusader-kings

   Middle Eastern knights and female knights both have established precedents in the literature or adjacent Matters, so that in itself wouldn't necessarily be an indicator. But after the painful anachronisms of 'British Christianity' in 5th Edition Pendragon, especially in the Book of Uther, I've lost interest in 6th Edition.

Quote from: Gagarth on August 05, 2022, 10:33:08 AM
Chaosium has now tipped into the red. This from the Keepers Tips.

Quote"Even if aiming for historical accuracy, there's no need to lean on bigoted or misogynistic elements of our collective past. If you insist on there being a narrative purpose for such elements, discuss them with each player separately ahead of time".

Quote"Inclusivity matters. Offer a diverse cast of investigators and non-player characters (NPCs) that are BIPOC, LGBTQ+, varying sexual identities, disabled, and more!"

They have also taken a leaf from the Amazon Rings of Power crew and are producing videos and using urnalist activists to push the woke agenda they have for Pendragon 6th edtion. Women knights are now manadatory, the pregens of the starter set are going to be diverse like those of the Cthulhu Starter Set ,including a middle eastern knight. Also Picts will now be Central Asians.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBkwgm9YIm8&ab_channel=Chaosium
https://www.polygon.com/23290932/pendragon-6th-edition-preview-the-green-knight-crusader-kings

I always assumed they were red from the beginning.

Supposedly this list is companies whose products are involved in political views, and yet most of this crapfest of a thread is people waiving their politics like a flag.

Quote from: pawsplay on August 05, 2022, 06:07:23 PM
Supposedly this list is companies whose products are involved in political views, and yet most of this crapfest of a thread is people waiving their politics like a flag.

We wave our politics, you wave your stupid... *shrug*

As to this list, if you don't find it useful, I'm pretty sure there are other threads on this message board.  One wonders why you felt the need to enter this one, if it doesn't appeal to you...

Quote from: pawsplay on August 05, 2022, 06:07:23 PM
Supposedly this list is companies whose products are involved in political views, and yet most of this crapfest of a thread is people waiving their politics like a flag.

Waiving their politics is the desired result.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 05, 2022, 10:57:12 AM

Quote from: Gagarth on August 05, 2022, 10:33:08 AM
They have also taken a leaf from the Amazon Rings of Power crew and are producing videos and using urnalist activists to push the woke agenda they have for Pendragon 6th edtion. Women knights are now manadatory, the pregens of the starter set are going to be diverse like those of the Cthulhu Starter Set ,including a middle eastern knight. Also Picts will now be Central Asians.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBkwgm9YIm8&ab_channel=Chaosium
https://www.polygon.com/23290932/pendragon-6th-edition-preview-the-green-knight-crusader-kings

   Middle Eastern knights and female knights both have established precedents in the literature or adjacent Matters, so that in itself wouldn't necessarily be an indicator. But after the painful anachronisms of 'British Christianity' in 5th Edition Pendragon, especially in the Book of Uther, I've lost interest in 6th Edition.

One middle eastern knight does not does not set a precedent and show me the source that shows that  women where vassal knights? Don't trot out Joan of Arc. How is British Christianity an anachronism in the 5th and 6th centuries?  The different varieties of Christianity where described from 2nd/3rd edition, 5th just added the mechanical differences?  The game clearly starts in the 5th and 6th the technology and social system progresses through the whole of the middle ages but the politics and religions are 5th & 6th century through out.   

Has their ever been an empirical study done that tests the theory "Representation matters"? Because as a Latino, it's never mattered to me and I'm not sure why or how skin color has become such an obsession over the past decade or so.

I watch movies, play games, or otherwise indulge in entertainment in order to escape the real world. I see myself every day in the mirror, I don't need to see myself riding on a dragon in a fantasy TV show or fighting the latest Super Hero villain.

Are some people really that desperate to "see themselves" in the entertainment they watch? It's kind of weird honestly and if i had to guess this push for "diversity and inclusivity" is done more by bored white kids on Twitter than the actual minorities they claim to champion.