Honestly the Roman could just be a dark tan. I think I read somewhere that a Mediterranean person's skin can go from really light in the winter to pretty dark in the summer.

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 18, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 18, 2022, 09:31:27 AM
This image just dropped https://imgur.com/a/O0FBTpY

So far my confidence in them has been dropping like a rock. This on top of a massive price increase, constant crowdsourcing, and overall drop in quality. Gameplaywise im noticing power creep like crazy but i cant help but shake the feeling its starting to really feel soulless like their hearts arent in it anymore

Black Roman soldier, and FEMALE Black night in shining armor? I dont mind diversity, but this feels ham-fisted.

Well, the former did actually exist. The latter, not so much.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 19, 2022, 01:32:06 AM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 18, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 18, 2022, 09:31:27 AM
This image just dropped https://imgur.com/a/O0FBTpY

So far my confidence in them has been dropping like a rock. This on top of a massive price increase, constant crowdsourcing, and overall drop in quality. Gameplaywise im noticing power creep like crazy but i cant help but shake the feeling its starting to really feel soulless like their hearts arent in it anymore

Black Roman soldier, and FEMALE Black night in shining armor? I dont mind diversity, but this feels ham-fisted.

Well, the former did actually exist. The latter, not so much.

That aside, it is the Fantasy Companion, not the Authentic Medieval Companion. Female black knights didn't exist, but it's long been a trope in fantasy RPGs that you can have mechanically identical female and male warriors. There are concerning things about PEG, but I don't think this is among them.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 19, 2022, 01:32:06 AM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 18, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 18, 2022, 09:31:27 AM
This image just dropped https://imgur.com/a/O0FBTpY

So far my confidence in them has been dropping like a rock. This on top of a massive price increase, constant crowdsourcing, and overall drop in quality. Gameplaywise im noticing power creep like crazy but i cant help but shake the feeling its starting to really feel soulless like their hearts arent in it anymore

Not as common as you may think and definitely you wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or other high rank soldiers. Metatron has a video on the matter where he shows how it really was with historical evidence. But yeah, it existed.

Black Roman soldier, and FEMALE Black night in shining armor? I dont mind diversity, but this feels ham-fisted.

Well, the former did actually exist. The latter, not so much.

Not as common as you may think, and you definitely wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or any high rank soldier for the matter. Metatron has a good video on the subject where he shows what we know so far about it, i really recommend. But yeah it existed.

I don't think they were trying to pass it off as medieval though, right? I mean we probably did not have have a lot of green dragonmen or white chicks with scimitars either.

But as recent as October, PEG did step into anti-consumer territory around the topic of their art when they bent the knee around the Atlantis Rising cover. When asked on their forums by a customer, they locked the thread two posts later and linked to the announcement in KS. The problem is of the 20 updates to the kickstarter, it is the only one that is 'backers only'. So if you were not a backer or are not logged in, the link just reloads the locked thread. Both the thread moderation and backer announcement came from Clint, so is hard to believe it was random.

Quote from: FingerRod on April 19, 2022, 07:08:25 AM
But as recent as October, PEG did step into anti-consumer territory around the topic of their art when they bent the knee around the Atlantis Rising cover. When asked on their forums by a customer, they locked the thread two posts later and linked to the announcement in KS. The problem is of the 20 updates to the kickstarter, it is the only one that is 'backers only'. So if you were not a backer or are not logged in, the link just reloads the locked thread. Both the thread moderation and backer announcement came from Clint, so is hard to believe it was random.

What was the cover about, and what did the customer ask? Also, what did Clint post?

They pulled a similar stunt when Jodi told the Facebook community to avoid using the word 'savages'. Someone got upset, kicked up a fuss about it, and then the thread got locked. It got deleted eventually but I don't know if it was the poster who did it or one of the moderators.

Quote from: mudbanks on April 19, 2022, 07:44:14 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on April 19, 2022, 07:08:25 AM
But as recent as October, PEG did step into anti-consumer territory around the topic of their art when they bent the knee around the Atlantis Rising cover. When asked on their forums by a customer, they locked the thread two posts later and linked to the announcement in KS. The problem is of the 20 updates to the kickstarter, it is the only one that is 'backers only'. So if you were not a backer or are not logged in, the link just reloads the locked thread. Both the thread moderation and backer announcement came from Clint, so is hard to believe it was random.

What was the cover about, and what did the customer ask? Also, what did Clint post?

They pulled a similar stunt when Jodi told the Facebook community to avoid using the word 'savages'. Someone got upset, kicked up a fuss about it, and then the thread got locked. It got deleted eventually but I don't know if it was the poster who did it or one of the moderators.

Splugorth's ladies were too sexy.

I am surprised it is still up. You can see the thread here: https://www.pegforum.com/forum/savage-rifts®/new-release-feedback/55869-atlantis-cover

If you look up the project on KS you can see the post is private, for backers only. I am guessing this is why the link does not work from their forums. If you dig through the comments, you'll also see Shane do the polite decline to refund a backer who was not happy with the cover change. To be fair, he said they would talk privately, but then wrote a paragraph or two on why they do not want to give refunds.

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on April 18, 2022, 11:40:38 PM
Honestly the Roman could just be a dark tan. I think I read somewhere that a Mediterranean person's skin can go from really light in the winter to pretty dark in the summer.

I'm italian, can confirm though im pretty pale. Greeks are a little more tanned.


Doing some digging on the whole atlantis rising thing seeing what I can dig up, went to the kickstarter page. So apparently this is the original cover of Atlantis Rising https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/800HC30-Rifts-RPG-30th-Anniversary-Hardcover.html and here is the kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/545820095/rifts-for-savage-worlds-atlantis-rising/description

So far we have people complaining about the cover art being changed one backer says he is no longer wanting to back the project and is soured on the whole thing and Shane Hensely replies

QuoteHi DZ. Sorry you feel that way. Truly. I personally feel much the way you do about a lot of what's going on these days, but I think in this case a lot of that is just updating the material more than anything. This is how Kevin and Sean would have written and illustrated the material if it were created today, they say.

I'll contact you directly and try to work something out--I truly don't want people buying something from me they don't want, but we're also a tiny team and if we open the door to refunding pledges after we've already paid for the development, printing, art, freight, and everything else we'd be gone in six months.

All the best,

Shane

From what I can tell the homage to original cover made it onto the Demon Seas supplement heavily censored. There doesn't actually seem to be an update clarifying why this decision was made beyond the response Shane Hensely gave to the backer but I could be wrong. There are a few shills pole jockin in the comment section but the amount of canceled backers is just embarrassing.

Since I cant read minds, I can infer from the post that Mr. Hensely looks like he's a fan of that style art but is committed to bending the knee for a more modest approach to their art. Glad I bought all of the deluxe edition stuff before it went out of print. From the art in the core book, in the supers companion and in rifts, i think it's safe to say they have bent the knee to puritanical demands. If the issue was it being on the cover i'd totally understand if this was an art piece on the inside as a full page spread but given it was censored I have an issue with it. It reminds me of the time when the church suddenly demanded to censor all the art in the vatican they painted fig leafs on the art, and chiseled off all the penises. I wonder if they kept them in a big crate of marble dongs. Anyway this is depressing as shit.

Quote from: arctic_fox on April 19, 2022, 05:44:27 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 19, 2022, 01:32:06 AM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 18, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 18, 2022, 09:31:27 AM
This image just dropped https://imgur.com/a/O0FBTpY

So far my confidence in them has been dropping like a rock. This on top of a massive price increase, constant crowdsourcing, and overall drop in quality. Gameplaywise im noticing power creep like crazy but i cant help but shake the feeling its starting to really feel soulless like their hearts arent in it anymore

Not as common as you may think and definitely you wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or other high rank soldiers. Metatron has a video on the matter where he shows how it really was with historical evidence. But yeah, it existed.

Black Roman soldier, and FEMALE Black night in shining armor? I dont mind diversity, but this feels ham-fisted.

Well, the former did actually exist. The latter, not so much.

Not as common as you may think, and you definitely wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or any high rank soldier for the matter. Metatron has a good video on the subject where he shows what we know so far about it, i really recommend. But yeah it existed.

The Metaron video is great. I agree there were more Black Roman soldiers than there were combat wheelchairs.

Savage worlds goes that path in fantasy (Modern or sci-fi is fine actually) and i think they lose a large part of their fan base.

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 19, 2022, 08:57:07 AM

Quote from: arctic_fox on April 19, 2022, 05:44:27 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 19, 2022, 01:32:06 AM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 18, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 18, 2022, 09:31:27 AM
This image just dropped https://imgur.com/a/O0FBTpY

So far my confidence in them has been dropping like a rock. This on top of a massive price increase, constant crowdsourcing, and overall drop in quality. Gameplaywise im noticing power creep like crazy but i cant help but shake the feeling its starting to really feel soulless like their hearts arent in it anymore

Not as common as you may think and definitely you wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or other high rank soldiers. Metatron has a video on the matter where he shows how it really was with historical evidence. But yeah, it existed.

Black Roman soldier, and FEMALE Black night in shining armor? I dont mind diversity, but this feels ham-fisted.

Well, the former did actually exist. The latter, not so much.

Not as common as you may think, and you definitely wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or any high rank soldier for the matter. Metatron has a good video on the subject where he shows what we know so far about it, i really recommend. But yeah it existed.

The Metaron video is great. I agree there were more Black Roman soldiers than there were combat wheelchairs.

Savage worlds goes that path in fantasy (Modern or sci-fi is fine actually) and i think they lose a large part of their fan base.

https://www.board-game.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Savage-Worlds-Fantasy-Companion.jpg is an example of the current fantasy companion

Quote from: Ocule on April 19, 2022, 09:01:14 AM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 19, 2022, 08:57:07 AM

Quote from: arctic_fox on April 19, 2022, 05:44:27 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 19, 2022, 01:32:06 AM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 18, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 18, 2022, 09:31:27 AM
This image just dropped https://imgur.com/a/O0FBTpY

So far my confidence in them has been dropping like a rock. This on top of a massive price increase, constant crowdsourcing, and overall drop in quality. Gameplaywise im noticing power creep like crazy but i cant help but shake the feeling its starting to really feel soulless like their hearts arent in it anymore

Not as common as you may think and definitely you wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or other high rank soldiers. Metatron has a video on the matter where he shows how it really was with historical evidence. But yeah, it existed.

Black Roman soldier, and FEMALE Black night in shining armor? I dont mind diversity, but this feels ham-fisted.

Well, the former did actually exist. The latter, not so much.

Not as common as you may think, and you definitely wouldn't see black centurions and praetorians or any high rank soldier for the matter. Metatron has a good video on the subject where he shows what we know so far about it, i really recommend. But yeah it existed.

The Metaron video is great. I agree there were more Black Roman soldiers than there were combat wheelchairs.

Savage worlds goes that path in fantasy (Modern or sci-fi is fine actually) and i think they lose a large part of their fan base.

https://www.board-game.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Savage-Worlds-Fantasy-Companion.jpg is an example of the current fantasy companion

I own that one. Not a fan of the art, more for execution than content however.

As Im reading this, Im reminded of Chaosiums migration of RuneQuest images to more olive toned, instead of Celtic.

  Ok can not resist.   There are NO ROMAN soldiers in that picture.  That is a Greek Hoplite (at least according to the gear) and I would guess Spartan due to the Red cloak.  In any event not Roman but certainly Hellanic.  So I could take a reach and say he could be a soldier from one of the nations/city states left behind after Alexander the Great spread the good word, or even a Carthage mercenary ( I know Carthegenians were Semetic, but they can tan as well, and did enlist black people in their armies).    I do find it odd we always see some interesting flavors in European centric gear, but never a white dude dressed as a Zulu Warrior. 

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 18, 2022, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 18, 2022, 09:31:27 AM
This image just dropped https://imgur.com/a/O0FBTpY

So far my confidence in them has been dropping like a rock. This on top of a massive price increase, constant crowdsourcing, and overall drop in quality. Gameplaywise im noticing power creep like crazy but i cant help but shake the feeling its starting to really feel soulless like their hearts arent in it anymore

Black Roman soldier, and FEMALE Black night in shining armor? I dont mind diversity, but this feels ham-fisted.

Crap. and I love me some Savage Worlds.

I dont think the Roman Greek soldier is supposed to be black, just deeply tanned. The knight clearly is though.

Edit:wow i can't spell.

  Yeah, I think Pinnacle's in the Yellow now. I don't think they actually adhere to Woke principles, much less despise non-Woke fans (which sets them apart from the folks at WotC, Paizo, Evil Hat, etc.), but I think they've gotten too big to slip beneath the notice of the agitators, and not big or firmly grounded enough to solidly resist, so they make some token concessions in the hope of being left alone.

   I don't mind the artistic diversity too much--at worst, it's tokenism.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on April 19, 2022, 01:07:13 PM

  Yeah, I think Pinnacle's in the Yellow now. I don't think they actually adhere to Woke principles, much less despise non-Woke fans (which sets them apart from the folks at WotC, Paizo, Evil Hat, etc.), but I think they've gotten too big to slip beneath the notice of the agitators, and not big or firmly grounded enough to solidly resist, so they make some token concessions in the hope of being left alone.

   I don't mind the artistic diversity too much--at worst, it's tokenism.

I agree, it wouldnt be anywhere near as bad if the reasons were different but this is definitely bending the knee. Personally ive been a lot more reserved about dishing out cash. I got the collectors swade box with the signed copy, and the deadlands collectors box and the entire solomon kane line, plus all the deluxe edition companions, a handful of setting books and the deluxe explorers book. So it's not like I was someone who didnt support them, but i think recently it's made me want to wait and see things that drop instead of just assuming that it's going to be great.

With this FC lineup

From left to right
female wood elf ranger, looks like its right from wotc's artbook
half orc alchemist, guess the orcish half isnt dumb anymore
Black female knight in pseudo italian armor
female paladin, with boob plate
male spartan warrior, probably the only badass looking character on the spread. His shield is way too small though
male Dwarf Warrior
female halfling thief
black male nobleman, this has gotta be cultural appropriation by now
ginger female dervish, arabian aesthetic more modest than usual depictions of these warriors
dragonman warrior, probably a dude cant really tell. Totally not a dragonborn paladin of bahamut
female egyption archer, skirt is too long or made of the wrong material based on iconography of egyption dress and historical renditions. Also the chest piece is too big. Looks egyption inspired but modified for modern day sensibilities and modesty standards.
Female assassin, black background really makes her invisible.

Overall 7 females to 4 males, with the most common roles intentionally reversed. Like the paladin and knight. Also I know it's fantasy but the nobleman looks pseudo french or english, you never see african nobility or even aesthetics I wonder why that is. The artist looks like they were told "give me a diversity sketch of fantasy characters"

Like I said though this would be a non issue if the motivations werent corrupt. Also worth mentioning they have modesty standards that would make this legal in saudi arabia i swear. Now im curious who is the artist or art director here