Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 09:28:40 AM
Savage worlds takes another step toward woke as in the fantasy companion races are now referred to as ancestry. The art has also taken a turn for more modesty. This is honestly depressing

Crap! I feared they were going to go this route when they revised Deadlands history.

I do wonder; when the pendulum swings back as it inevitably does, how hard are these companies going to pander to their former loyal customers who they abandoned for the wokistas?

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 10:10:46 AM
Original pdf for deluxe FC is ten bucks, hard copy I think it 19.99 at msrp. At least for the crowdsource  it is 25 for pdf and 50 for hard copy which includes archetype cards. Pdf archetype cards are worthless and should be just included with the book, hard copy should only be a few a few dollars. It'll probably be 20 for pdf and 40 for a hard copy.

Either way it's a significant price increase from a game where The cost of books was considered cheap. I mean still not at wotc 150 dollar absurdity but still it's pricy for a supplement. It'll depend entirely on how much content they include that wasn't in the old fc to make it worth it. An extra page or two would not be worth it

You're spot on man considering the cost of the main rule book. I wish I hadn't back it now. Plus, I was completely happy with the old version of SW. The new one is nothing special at all. Just a couple of tweaks.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 15, 2022, 10:14:03 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 10:10:46 AM
Original pdf for deluxe FC is ten bucks, hard copy I think it 19.99 at msrp. At least for the crowdsource  it is 25 for pdf and 50 for hard copy which includes archetype cards. Pdf archetype cards are worthless and should be just included with the book, hard copy should only be a few a few dollars. It'll probably be 20 for pdf and 40 for a hard copy.

Either way it's a significant price increase from a game where The cost of books was considered cheap. I mean still not at wotc 150 dollar absurdity but still it's pricy for a supplement. It'll depend entirely on how much content they include that wasn't in the old fc to make it worth it. An extra page or two would not be worth it

You're spot on man considering the cost of the main rule book. I wish I hadn't back it now. Plus, I was completely happy with the old version of SW. The new one is nothing special at all. Just a couple of tweaks.

Agreed, I didnt think i needed another edition. I still get barked at for saying the previous edition's magic system was better overall. The new one was heavily based on genesys RPG. Chase rules are better, but that's about it. We lost coherent rules for vehicle movement on a battlemap, which really hurts weird war and similar scenarios. I mean as a ruleset swade is good, but it really doesnt capture me the way deluxe did. Hell I was a critic of universal systems until i sat down and read the deluxe explorers edition in a bookstore, I walked out with it in hand.

Also now 90% of the art is boring and uninspired worried more about offending twitter and critical role fans than just being fantastic. Most of the people who didnt like "cheesecake" art were either fat and ugly feminists, or male feminist soyboys. 

Ultimately the best way to put it is passion project vs business endeavor. I don't feel the passion in it anymore it even feels a little hollow.

Quote from: Godsmonkey on April 15, 2022, 10:13:20 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 09:28:40 AM
Savage worlds takes another step toward woke as in the fantasy companion races are now referred to as ancestry. The art has also taken a turn for more modesty. This is honestly depressing

Crap! I feared they were going to go this route when they revised Deadlands history.

I do wonder; when the pendulum swings back as it inevitably does, how hard are these companies going to pander to their former loyal customers who they abandoned for the wokistas?

That's an excellent question.

For me, if the same people are in charge, they never get me back, no matter what they do. So like WotC has lost me forever (excepting drivethru older edition stuff). So sticking with the D&D example, it would have to go to an entirely different company with different leadership/designers to even make we think about going back.

Quote

Crap! I feared they were going to go this route when they revised Deadlands history.

I do wonder; when the pendulum swings back as it inevitably does, how hard are these companies going to pander to their former loyal customers who they abandoned for the wokistas?

That's an excellent question.

For me, if the same people are in charge, they never get me back, no matter what they do. So like WotC has lost me forever (excepting drivethru older edition stuff). So sticking with the D&D example, it would have to go to an entirely different company with different leadership/designers to even make we think about going back.
[/quote]

Same for me. I'm at the point that I will either only play older games I already own, or house rule my own if it means buying from woke or woke kowtowing companies.

Peginc (Jodi Black, actually) has also said before that you can't use the term "savages" on their Facebook page (but nobody really listened and people still do it).

I probably will still back them for the fantasy pdf but after this I doubt I'll buy many more of their products. I don't know how much more pandering they'll do but I'm not holding my breath. Besides, SWADE to me is perfect as it is, having fixed most of the problems from Deluxe.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on April 15, 2022, 10:49:50 AM

That's an excellent question.

For me, if the same people are in charge, they never get me back, no matter what they do. So like WotC has lost me forever (excepting drivethru older edition stuff). So sticking with the D&D example, it would have to go to an entirely different company with different leadership/designers to even make we think about going back.

In my case, I'm willing to show companies what I think is the right way to go. So I have zero tolerance for woke preaching, that sort of thing has done a whole lot of damage to society, but if they make a product that is good I'll consider buying it. It usually shows involvement with different people but I don't always check.

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 09:28:40 AM
Savage worlds takes another step toward woke as in the fantasy companion races are now referred to as ancestry. The art has also taken a turn for more modesty. This is honestly depressing

  Link?  I  can not seem to find any info on the Companion.  I have to be honest, I will likely grit my teeth and buy it.  I will pretend they just used that language to be consistent with Savage Pathfinder (though I do not know if they used that language with Savage Pathfinder).   I guess I can just rationalize I can dodge a little woke to get something that is going to be very handy with riding out the coming apocalypse.

The launch stream said 'ancestry' was being used to allow the same rules to be used to distinguish various human cultures, etc.

Quote from: oggsmash on April 15, 2022, 11:30:44 AM

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 09:28:40 AM
Savage worlds takes another step toward woke as in the fantasy companion races are now referred to as ancestry. The art has also taken a turn for more modesty. This is honestly depressing

  Link?  I  can not seem to find any info on the Companion.  I have to be honest, I will likely grit my teeth and buy it.  I will pretend they just used that language to be consistent with Savage Pathfinder (though I do not know if they used that language with Savage Pathfinder).   I guess I can just rationalize I can dodge a little woke to get something that is going to be very handy with riding out the coming apocalypse.

It was on a facebook post from Shane Hensley.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on April 15, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
The launch stream said 'ancestry' was being used to allow the same rules to be used to distinguish various human cultures, etc.

At least they have a justification, even if it's a bit weak. Race still works though as a general term. It still comes off as pandering and i wonder if that was just said to appease the anti woke crowd.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on April 15, 2022, 12:48:52 PM
The launch stream said 'ancestry' was being used to allow the same rules to be used to distinguish various human cultures, etc.

Indeed, "ancestry" is at least a versatile term, which could be applied not only to different human lineages as well as a sort of race-as-skills approach, where the general populace is of mixed "race", and you can select any of the available ancestral traits for your character.

The ugly part in this isn't the word change ... it's the likely reasoning behind it (which I'd guess has ZERO to do with its versatility).

Always great to see resolve and conviction melt away when it is a product people like.

Quote from: FingerRod on April 15, 2022, 01:40:58 PM
Always great to see resolve and conviction melt away when it is a product people like.

Fuck are you talking about lol

Quote from: Ocule on April 15, 2022, 02:11:15 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on April 15, 2022, 01:40:58 PM
Always great to see resolve and conviction melt away when it is a product people like.

Fuck are you talking about lol

Haha

I'm talking about Pinnacle of course. It has a large amount of support which is the only reason it continues to get a pass.

Maybe you should add a Blue category to put companies that should be yellow but are green because ppl enjoy playing the system too much to be objective.

Quote from: Gagarth on April 14, 2022, 08:01:31 AM
Stockholm Kartell CY_BORG

Was hoping they wouldn't do shit like this in Cy_Borg, since they kept the politics bullshit out of Mörk Borg, so much for me saying they would go in yellow since it wasn't explicitly in their games.

Well, I don't really run Cyberpunk genre games because they tend to be fairly political anyways