Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 06:25:43 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 02, 2021, 05:42:02 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 05:35:06 PM

Quote from: FistOfGaiVs on October 31, 2021, 04:30:02 AM

Quote from: Iron_Rain on October 29, 2021, 08:36:58 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this list has done more harm than good? I'm all for calling out self-righteous virtue signalling keyboard warrior BS, but think the blowback has likely made things worse.

I almost bought Zweihander due to it being marketed as "Grim and Perilous" - but then found out the "Gender Neutral" manifesto and how they obviously spent more time making everything hyper politically correct than working out anything even halfway playable.  What a stupid joke.  I took a photo, made a joke tweet to warn others.  Then I got harassed with a Cancel attempt by their "Writers" whom I see as Adult Teletubbies but also vicious and possibly murderous.  Looking over their ....game... I imagined if the notorious "F.A.T.A.L" project had become more popular - and Dragon or some other Gaming magazine did a parody of it - as if it had been made by the hyper super Politically Correct...  That - one man's opinion - is Zweihander...  I didn't pick a fight - I almost bought their game since it was marketed to the TTRPG crowd but you had to read deep to discover the 'writers' only agenda was their treacly snowflake ideals - not making a game.  If I'd known (say their manifestos printed on the front cover) I'd have immediately put the book down.  End of story.  Not what I'd buy but I'd only wish them well.  It was almost buying it, noting it, getting harassed. (big epic fight - old One Angry Gamer site had it covered)  There were also an unusual number of security alerts of attempts to hack my personna and I still get 10x the spam (mostly "I have your web photos send me bitcoin") most get as if it was given after pathetic hacking attempts failed.  Any coincidence I'll say "One Man's Opinion" without direct proof of course.

Normally I don't want a "Blacklist" but they themselves in manifestos posted online constantly say if you don't agree with their hyper left Woke-ness you are NOT to buy, play, etc. their game.  How in the WORLD is it somehow worth it to Barnes and Noble to keep them on the shelves?  Well they are also devoting 1/3 of store space to a 'children's section - no adults unless parents with kids...   They call for a blacklist?  GIVE it to them.  Baby need his bottle.

Thus this list helps warn consumers sick of the "Woke" to NOT buy the WOKE stuff and waste money or get harassed/stalked by these...people...more concerned with agitprop than making a product.  Again the WOKE the Social Justice Warriors the Hipsters of HATE themselves have in so many manifestos made it clear they do NOT want you to play their game unless you agree with their politics 100%.  And, btw, I'm an old school liberal and 1st gen "Munchkin" gamer - an Xer really.  I'm 95% towards much of what (on the surface) the Woke/SJWs demand - an end to RL racism and sexism, for strong social and legal protocols against, and for maximum tolerance of free speech, press and personal behavior.  WHERE I differ is I am for Maximum free speech - including that I do not approve of.  And against things being banned because someone somewhere is "Offended".  Thus I might as well be HITLER to these people.

I think this list needs its own special website with additions/changes on a regular basis.  Also notes of (to use their own term) "Problematic" individuals - such as how Zweihander has hired Zoe Quinn for "Blackbirds" another "Look mommy its gwim and dawk - but not waysist or sexist!  BLM!"  We just make it clear the adherence (or defiance of) "Woke" agitprop/groupthink.

Furthermore - with most of the "Mainstream" companies now corporate owned shells that cuck and suck to panderers it's good for "Green" - you can be a small one room apartment self-publisher and get a GREEN rating by publishing on DriveThru and making DEAD CLEAR your work is NOT for the "Woke"...!  Could "Woke" sneak through and try to propagandize?  Not with gaming geeks looking at them and "False information/fraud" is grounds to get kicked out.  Furthermore if a "Woke" tried to do non-PC stuff to infiltrate their "Friends" would be sharpening knives and weighting skateboards to attack them - arguing they made  the "Captive princess wailing for rescue" a little TOO pretty...  If any former "Woke" jump over, great!  There's a phrase on church boards sometimes:  "Try Jesus.  If you don't like him the Devil WILL take you back!" - the "Hipsters of HATE" are NOT as kind and forgiving...

The only caution I'd argue for is to NOT let it get defined beyond there.  I don't want say only "Vox Day" to take over and so you have to be "Alt right" and the bias is only flipped.  Apologies to Mr Day, I have read a bunch of his books, from the SJW ones to some comics, like him (especially his techno music from way back) but I don't want to choose between one "Cult" to side with.  I'm a bit "Liberal" but think influenced by Hippie/Yippie parents.  Abbie Hoffman to Phil Ochs for some quick refs, I don't mean directly though my Mom did meet Gutherie and Burgess.  I consider the RAINBOW UNICORN SNOWFLAKES aka the "Woke" some sick INSULT on the real work and sacrifice of the Parent's generation (and many last century) to try to destroy it.

That's a lot of words. This thread has big "You can't fire me, I quit" energy. You're not sticking it to these people by not buying  their products. They don't want your business, they've said it repeatedly.

Meanwhile, the "green" Venger Satanis hasn't raised 15k in two weeks with his latest Kickstarter, but "red" Tuesday Knight Games is over 440k on the first day of the Mothership 1e box set. And comics just had one of the biggest summers in the last 25 years - and that doesn't even include graphic novels (single-issue sales only) or manga. When do they get to the "going broke" part, huh, you guys?

You guys make me laugh.

The list is bad
The list does nothing

Choose one and stick to it.

As for sticking it to "these people", how can one think that's what we want when they have said they don't want the money from anyone to the right of Mao?

You laugh so hard that you have several pages worth trying to derail the list. Laugh harder snowflake.

1. I've never said the list is "bad", or anything but laughable, so stick to what? Please find where I said the list is bad.

2. A handful of posts is not pages. Go ahead, please count the "pages" of posts.

3. Why would I want to derail the list? Ever since Chris-Chan got arrested, this is the best place on the internet to laugh at dumb people. Congratulations, I guess.

4. Seems like you're the snowflake. "I-I'll show them! They'll go out of business for hurting my fee-fees! *sob*"

Please continue. This thread is comedy gold.

Also, I notice you couldn't refute any of the points I made in the quote you posted, so you resorted to ad hominem attacks, exaggerations and outright lies. I win.

You're laughing so hard your ass hurts?

I've never said "they'll go out of bussiness", quite the oppossite, WotC has the mega bucks of Hasbro behind them. Some of the smaller publishers tho might or might not IDGAF. What I care about is not giving my money to racist/sexist fucks.

Points? What points?

To be an ad hominem I would need to adress your character and claim because of that your arguments are invalid.

You don't have either.

Me insulting you isn't an ad hom, though most ad homs use insults not all insults are ad homs.

Ven diagram and that shit.

You took a very superficial course of logic or picked the terminology on the internet because you sure as fuck can't use the terms correctly.

Laugh harder snowflake, if your laughter causes your ass to hurt buy some vitacilina.

You know, the points that Mothership is having a wildly successful Kickstarter, and Comics had a spectacular summer, despite being "woke". THOSE points. You're not too bright, are ya?

Also, you're engaging in ad hominem attacks again, while sidestepping my points that you claimed two things you can't prove because they're demonstrably untrue (that I called the list "bad", and had "pages" of posts in this thread). I win - again.

Greetings!

Mothership has a fairly well-established fan-base. From what I know, the company that publishes Mothership has been around for  bit, and is a larger operation than Venger Satanis.

I'm not surprised that the Mothership Kickstarter has been wildly successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 06:49:33 PM
Greetings!

Mothership has a fairly well-established fan-base. From what I know, the company that publishes Mothership has been around for  bit, and is a larger operation than Venger Satanis.

I'm not surprised that the Mothership Kickstarter has been wildly successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, b-but they're WOKE lmaoooooooo

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 06:45:33 PM
You know, the points that Mothership is having a wildly successful Kickstarter, and Comics had a spectacular summer, despite being "woke". THOSE points. You're not too bright, are ya?

Also, you're engaging in ad hominem attacks again, while sidestepping my points that you claimed two things you can't prove because they're demonstrably untrue (that I called the list "bad", and had "pages" of posts in this thread). I win - again.

LOL, you making an observation isn't you making a point.

What do you think the mothership kickstarter prooves? Why do you think we care one way or the other?

As for comics sales, notice how you have to define things? One of the best summers of the last 25 years...

I stoped buying anything from the big 5 so I'm out of the loop but, couldn't it be they rised the prices AGAIN?

It's still lower than when Rebirth was a thing. You know when DC was outselling Marvel? Before they went woke?

But again, IDGAF, if they start selling like before the crash good for them, I care about MY money and where it goes, and it's not going to woketard racist and sexist fucks (meaning any and all woketards).

So, once again, what points do you think you mentioning some random data do you think you're making?

You seem to think we are like you and want to destroy X company/developer.

We just want to know who the racist & sexist fucks are so we can not give them money if we so choose.

We're for the free market not like you commie scum who wants to destroy those who don't bend the knee to your cult's dogma.

Cry harder snowflake.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 06:55:01 PM

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 06:49:33 PM
Greetings!

Mothership has a fairly well-established fan-base. From what I know, the company that publishes Mothership has been around for  bit, and is a larger operation than Venger Satanis.

I'm not surprised that the Mothership Kickstarter has been wildly successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, b-but they're WOKE lmaoooooooo

AND? I doubt Shark gave them money, neither did I and as individuals thats what we care about, what we do with our money.

This list really hurt your ass didn't it?

And the butthurt increased exponentially with our refusal to do as you wanted.

Gonna cry harder?

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 05:35:06 PM
That's a lot of words. This thread has big "You can't fire me, I quit" energy. You're not sticking it to these people by not buying  their products. They don't want your business, they've said it repeatedly.

Meanwhile, the "green" Venger Satanis hasn't raised 15k in two weeks with his latest Kickstarter, but "red" Tuesday Knight Games is over 440k on the first day of the Mothership 1e box set. And comics just had one of the biggest summers in the last 25 years - and that doesn't even include graphic novels (single-issue sales only) or manga. When do they get to the "going broke" part, huh, you guys?

You guys make me laugh.

My favourite part is how Manga is curb stomping comics so much that comics people want to include Manga in their sales figures.

Its cute like DnD holding onto the tail of Magic.

Quote from: Shasarak on November 02, 2021, 07:21:58 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 05:35:06 PM
That's a lot of words. This thread has big "You can't fire me, I quit" energy. You're not sticking it to these people by not buying  their products. They don't want your business, they've said it repeatedly.

Meanwhile, the "green" Venger Satanis hasn't raised 15k in two weeks with his latest Kickstarter, but "red" Tuesday Knight Games is over 440k on the first day of the Mothership 1e box set. And comics just had one of the biggest summers in the last 25 years - and that doesn't even include graphic novels (single-issue sales only) or manga. When do they get to the "going broke" part, huh, you guys?

You guys make me laugh.

My favourite part is how Manga is curb stomping comics so much that comics people want to include Manga in their sales figures.

Its cute like DnD holding onto the tail of Magic.

They're also including crowdfunding now. It's not a really big part but anything to make the investors think sales are up. Don't worry, August fell right back and I think September will do the same. And remember Spawn is selling like hot pancakes, boosting the overall metrics.

But now sales that would get a book cancelled a few years back are considered a hit.

60k was the treshold for cancellation, now? you regularly see books well below the 20k and if they reach 60k they celebrate.

But everything's just fine you guys.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 02, 2021, 07:34:43 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on November 02, 2021, 07:21:58 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 05:35:06 PM
That's a lot of words. This thread has big "You can't fire me, I quit" energy. You're not sticking it to these people by not buying  their products. They don't want your business, they've said it repeatedly.

Meanwhile, the "green" Venger Satanis hasn't raised 15k in two weeks with his latest Kickstarter, but "red" Tuesday Knight Games is over 440k on the first day of the Mothership 1e box set. And comics just had one of the biggest summers in the last 25 years - and that doesn't even include graphic novels (single-issue sales only) or manga. When do they get to the "going broke" part, huh, you guys?

You guys make me laugh.

My favourite part is how Manga is curb stomping comics so much that comics people want to include Manga in their sales figures.

Its cute like DnD holding onto the tail of Magic.

They're also including crowdfunding now. It's not a really big part but anything to make the investors think sales are up. Don't worry, August fell right back and I think September will do the same. And remember Spawn is selling like hot pancakes, boosting the overall metrics.

But now sales that would get a book cancelled a few years back are considered a hit.

60k was the treshold for cancellation, now? you regularly see books well below the 20k and if they reach 60k they celebrate.

But everything's just fine you guys.

I love it when the "lie with statistics" guy comes in like its 1999 and no one can duckduckgo in 5 seconds to find out how full of shit they are.



Narrator:  "They were very full of shit"

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 02, 2021, 07:00:39 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 06:55:01 PM

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 06:49:33 PM
Greetings!

Mothership has a fairly well-established fan-base. From what I know, the company that publishes Mothership has been around for  bit, and is a larger operation than Venger Satanis.

I'm not surprised that the Mothership Kickstarter has been wildly successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, b-but they're WOKE lmaoooooooo

AND? I doubt Shark gave them money, neither did I and as individuals thats what we care about, what we do with our money.

This list really hurt your ass didn't it?

And the butthurt increased exponentially with our refusal to do as you wanted.

Gonna cry harder?

Greetings!

Giving them my money? Oh, hell no! *laughing*

I'm not interested in them or their game in the slightest.

Comic books? Heh. Who cares? Comic books have been polluted with SJWism for awhile, and with all the race-swapping, gender-swapping, uber girl-power cock-sucking that goes on in comics, they can all choke on napalm.

Some may be doing fine, but going *woke* has certainly hurt many comic brands. The sales figures and customer commentary is plain to see. Comics, as an industry, has degraded and suffered by going woke. That's pretty much an unarguable fact.

As for the whole general topic of going woke, go broke, I think it is important to recognize that it is an over-generalization. Many companies, brands, etc, suffer enormously from being woke. However, some brands or companies seem to do well. *shrugs*

While many SJW's are sobbing, broke retards that are unemployed and live with their mommy--the fact is, there are still a dignificant group of cock-sucking liberal SJW's that have college degrees, and have managed to keep a hold of a decent paying job, or eve a very well-paying job, and ths, a segment of the uber woke has lots of money. There's lots of SJW fucktards that make bank and have well-paying do-nothing jobs in Blue cities. They have expensive lifestyes of bar-crawling, restaurants, lots of $6 dollar coffees every day, and wearing designer clothes. These people shop at Trader Joes all the time, or Whole Foods. Their entire lifestyles are definitely high-brow and semi-elite. Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Long Beach, Fullerton, Costa Mesa, La Palma, Irvine, Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, down to San Diego, out there in Houston, Texas, Austin, Texas, and beyond--there's LOTS of Liberal SJW's with MONEY.

This idea that all woke SJW's are fucking broke and eating at Taco Bell is just a pipe dream. At best, it is only partially true, and an exaggeration.

So, yeah. Some companies, and some brands, products, whatever, that are woke, are going to find an audience, and make BANK.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 08:10:07 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 02, 2021, 07:00:39 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on November 02, 2021, 06:55:01 PM

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 06:49:33 PM
Greetings!

Mothership has a fairly well-established fan-base. From what I know, the company that publishes Mothership has been around for  bit, and is a larger operation than Venger Satanis.

I'm not surprised that the Mothership Kickstarter has been wildly successful.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, b-but they're WOKE lmaoooooooo

AND? I doubt Shark gave them money, neither did I and as individuals thats what we care about, what we do with our money.

This list really hurt your ass didn't it?

And the butthurt increased exponentially with our refusal to do as you wanted.

Gonna cry harder?

Greetings!

Giving them my money? Oh, hell no! *laughing*

I'm not interested in them or their game in the slightest.

Comic books? Heh. Who cares? Comic books have been polluted with SJWism for awhile, and with all the race-swapping, gender-swapping, uber girl-power cock-sucking that goes on in comics, they can all choke on napalm.

Some may be doing fine, but going *woke* has certainly hurt many comic brands. The sales figures and customer commentary is plain to see. Comics, as an industry, has degraded and suffered by going woke. That's pretty much an unarguable fact.

As for the whole general topic of going woke, go broke, I think it is important to recognize that it is an over-generalization. Many companies, brands, etc, suffer enormously from being woke. However, some brands or companies seem to do well. *shrugs*

While many SJW's are sobbing, broke retards that are unemployed and live with their mommy--the fact is, there are still a dignificant group of cock-sucking liberal SJW's that have college degrees, and have managed to keep a hold of a decent paying job, or eve a very well-paying job, and ths, a segment of the uber woke has lots of money. There's lots of SJW fucktards that make bank and have well-paying do-nothing jobs in Blue cities. They have expensive lifestyes of bar-crawling, restaurants, lots of $6 dollar coffees every day, and wearing designer clothes. These people shop at Trader Joes all the time, or Whole Foods. Their entire lifestyles are definitely high-brow and semi-elite. Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Long Beach, Fullerton, Costa Mesa, La Palma, Irvine, Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, down to San Diego, out there in Houston, Texas, Austin, Texas, and beyond--there's LOTS of Liberal SJW's with MONEY.

This idea that all woke SJW's are fucking broke and eating at Taco Bell is just a pipe dream. At best, it is only partially true, and an exaggeration.

So, yeah. Some companies, and some brands, products, whatever, that are woke, are going to find an audience, and make BANK.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

This is one of the more reasonable posts I've seen from SHARK in a long time. The part where he allows reality to derail his usual narrative is touching.

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 08:10:07 PM
So, yeah. Some companies, and some brands, products, whatever, that are woke, are going to find an audience, and make BANK.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

How many mansions have the organisers of BLM brought so far?

The grift is real people.

Quote from: Shasarak on November 02, 2021, 08:54:44 PM

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 08:10:07 PM
So, yeah. Some companies, and some brands, products, whatever, that are woke, are going to find an audience, and make BANK.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

How many mansions have the organisers of BLM brought so far?

The grift is real people.

"One is born every minute" P.T. Barnum.

Quote from: SHARK on November 02, 2021, 08:10:07 PM
As for the whole general topic of going woke, go broke, I think it is important to recognize that it is an over-generalization. Many companies, brands, etc, suffer enormously from being woke. However, some brands or companies seem to do well. *shrugs*

I think being Woke can work well in a specific circumstance: rile up your Woke supporters with Woke marketing centred on a specific campaign. 'Show your virtue by backing this product' is at least more constructive than 'show your virtue by attacking this product' Kickstarter can work well for this. Woke does not work well as a mass market marketing strategy, and it does not work well for comics and similar periodicals, but it can work well for a more niche one-off product such as an RPG or a small film.  The product itself does not need to be any good, which always helps. If it's an RPG, no one actually needs to play it. With Woke marketing, no one will interrogate the product on its merits. (This can be true of Anti-Woke marketing too; "support my shitty comic* because it pwns the Libs").

As for the list, it's more about 'build back better' - support alternatives to woke publishers. Whether woke RPG publishers remain successful or not is completely irrelevant to the goal of a healthy non-woke RPG ecosystem. What matters is not that 90% of the crop remains diseased, what matters is that there is a small healthy crop people can eat.

*Thinking of Vox Day's comic not Alex Macris's. I'm sure your comic is lovely, Alex. 

This thread was a fascinating read.

Thanks for creating the list. I try to support non-woke companies and this helps. 

I'm glad to have found this forum.

Mark