Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 10:17:00 PM

So, let me ask you again: Where has Atlas Games said that? It's in the yellow list because the owner dislikes Trump, not because of any cancellation efforts its made. But Tenkar is in the green list DESPITE cancellation efforts that it made. There was a conversation about that. One gets green, one gets yellow, and the yellow is STATED AS APOLITICAL ON THE LIST.

Therer's others that are listed as apolitical in yellow, for example, Hero Games is in the yellow list because it "hired sensitivity readers."  Tell me, where is that cancellation of other games? It's listed as apolitical, but it hired sensitivity readers, so watch out, it's gonna come after other companies despite not having... actually done that.

See, your message smells an awful lot like cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, I'm an imbecile.

Think again, why is my message SOOOOOOO offensive to you, since I'm literally just repeating words FROM THE LIST.

Yet, holy cow, look at this, you're ANGRY. Why are you unleashing insults? I've been careful to not do anything like that, other than point out inconsistencies in the logic presented.

Why? Why are you angry?

Yellow is just warning signs, red is for bad behavior.

But I agree on Tenkar. If he got a book banned, he shouldn't be green.

Quote from: Pat on October 19, 2021, 10:46:46 PM
But I agree on Tenkar. If he got a book banned, he shouldn't be green.

In fairness, if you look back on the thread, it was a difficult decision for Ocule (and others), it had a lot of discussion, and he's disclosed that point on the list itself, so you can make your decision fairly.

The logic was that it was apologized for, and he hasn't engaged in similar behavior elsewhere.

Greetings!

*Laughing* I love all the SJW Communist scum crying about this list. Whaa! Whaa! Whaa!

Your whining, your sobbing, your pathetic Liberal tears are enjoyed here. No one here cares that SJW's don't like the list, or how it is organized, or why some are put under one category, while others are put under another category. I imagine few believe that the list is *perfect*--but it doesn't need to be. It fulfills its purpose, of listing and detailing gaming companies that ram their politics into the games they make, and hate gamers anywhere to the right of fucking Mao--and gaming companies that don't hate normal gamers. The Yellow list covers variable or mixed companies.

It's that simple.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 10:52:53 PM
*Laughing* I love all the SJW Communist scum crying about this list. Whaa! Whaa! Whaa!

Is that what I am doing? I was unaware.

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 10:52:53 PM
It fulfills its purpose, of listing and detailing gaming companies that ram their politics into the games they make, and hate gamers anywhere to the right of fucking Mao--and gaming companies that don't hate normal gamers. The Yellow list covers variable or mixed companies.

If you look at the list, you'll see that YELLOW is not for the thing you're saying. Let's grab the google doc entry and look at yellow:

Quote from: Ocule
Yellow
Entities in this section have engaged in some questionable behavior, taken a political stance that may have alienated some customers or preached in their products. Entities here have not caused any harm or engaged in anti-consumer behavior.

The one example I mentioned:

Quote from: Ocule
Atlas Games (Ars Magica) President of Atlas-Games has total TDS and is another blue checkmark. Unsure of how badly it shows in their games. For now it's yellow bordering on red.

So, nothing in the products, just a political position. And hey, if that's what this is about, then that's what it's about. Fair is fair and all.

We'll grab another example that I mentioned:

Quote from: Ocule
Hero Games Hires sensitivity readers, otherwise hard to tell.

so yeah, still nothing in the products, and not even a position... just "hired people to avoid offending customers." That action might offend some of you, but it's obviously not something overt since it's "hard to tell" what their position is.

And I mean, we're getting into the point where miniature makers are in there. So, not likely to see much of an example that there's a political opinion there.

Quote from: Ocule
Heroforge Miniatures They pander hard, are not overt about it but i'm sure they will do something stupid soon.

So yeah, list doesn't need to be perfect. But there's a few cases where we can ask questions, no?


And the entry for Tenkar I mentioned earlier:

Quote from: Ocule
Tenkar's Tavern/Eric Tenkar (Blog, Community, OSR Compatible) A "neutral ground" for an rpg community. Had some drama a few years ago about getting something pulled from one book shelf for it's description having ACAB on it, which ruffled some feathers on the anti censorship side however he has contributed so much good to the hobby. He has produced a few supplements on DTRPG   

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 10:52:53 PM
No one here cares that SJW's don't like the list, ...

I rather suspect the sadists here are thrilled about it, actually. (/deadpan)

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 11:01:29 PM

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 10:52:53 PM
*Laughing* I love all the SJW Communist scum crying about this list. Whaa! Whaa! Whaa!

Is that what I am doing? I was unaware.

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 10:52:53 PM
It fulfills its purpose, of listing and detailing gaming companies that ram their politics into the games they make, and hate gamers anywhere to the right of fucking Mao--and gaming companies that don't hate normal gamers. The Yellow list covers variable or mixed companies.

If you look at the list, you'll see that YELLOW is not for the thing you're saying. Let's grab the google doc entry and look at yellow:

Quote from: Ocule
Yellow
Entities in this section have engaged in some questionable behavior, taken a political stance that may have alienated some customers or preached in their products. Entities here have not caused any harm or engaged in anti-consumer behavior.

The one example I mentioned:

Quote from: Ocule
Atlas Games (Ars Magica) President of Atlas-Games has total TDS and is another blue checkmark. Unsure of how badly it shows in their games. For now it's yellow bordering on red.

So, nothing in the products, just a political position. And hey, if that's what this is about, then that's what it's about. Fair is fair and all.

We'll grab another example that I mentioned:

Quote from: Ocule
Hero Games Hires sensitivity readers, otherwise hard to tell.

so yeah, still nothing in the products, and not even a position... just "hired people to avoid offending customers." That action might offend some of you, but it's obviously not something overt since it's "hard to tell" what their position is.

And I mean, we're getting into the point where miniature makers are in there. So, not likely to see much of an example that there's a political opinion there.

Quote from: Ocule
Heroforge Miniatures They pander hard, are not overt about it but i'm sure they will do something stupid soon.

So yeah, list doesn't need to be perfect. But there's a few cases where we can ask questions, no?


And the entry for Tenkar I mentioned earlier:

Quote from: Ocule
Tenkar's Tavern/Eric Tenkar (Blog, Community, OSR Compatible) A "neutral ground" for an rpg community. Had some drama a few years ago about getting something pulled from one book shelf for it's description having ACAB on it, which ruffled some feathers on the anti censorship side however he has contributed so much good to the hobby. He has produced a few supplements on DTRPG   

Re: Ars Magica...

Well I wanted to see how severe the TDS was and went searching for the president on the twatter...

Surprize, surprize I haven't EVER intereacted with the cunt and yet I'm blocked.

So anyone with a twatter acount can see if "it's just a political opinion" or is the kind of "political opinions" that if held against certain demographics would get you cancelled and labelled an istophobe?

Because I think the cunt is liable to post that all republicans/Trump sopporters should be put on trains heading to a camp where they could concentrate.

https://twitter.com/JohnNephew

Edited to add:

Fired up Brave, searching his timeline first red flag: He's friends with Gail Simmone, patient zero of the woke infiltration on comic books.

Another edit: The imbecile really thinks that Islam is feminist... He retweeted this:

https://twitter.com/AyeshaNRashid/status/1427749283420323843

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 10:45:27 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on October 19, 2021, 10:28:43 PM

Oh dude, so glad to hear from you again. With yet more amazing words of encouragement.

It's good hearing from you again, buddy. You're one of the shining examples of why I keep coming back!

No, thank you buddy.

If it was not for you then I would be stuck in some kind of non list making limbo. 

Just wanted to put in another vote for moving Kobold Press out of Red. As I said in the KP thread: It  was one article in a book of essays by a variety of authors, including old school luminaries. Obviously lots of different POV.   This is Yellow class at the worst. I'd say it was less bad than Frog God's Vagina Edition of Swords & Wizardry, and they're in Green! Personally I would say that allowing viewpoint diversity in a book of essays is Green, no matter how obnoxious one of those views is.

Quote from: S'mon on October 20, 2021, 03:45:49 AM
Just wanted to put in another vote for moving Kobold Press out of Red. As I said in the KP thread: It  was one article in a book of essays by a variety of authors, including old school luminaries. Obviously lots of different POV.   This is Yellow class at the worst. I'd say it was less bad than Frog God's Vagina Edition of Swords & Wizardry, and they're in Green! Personally I would say that allowing viewpoint diversity in a book of essays is Green, no matter how obnoxious one of those views is.

Greetings!

I agree, S'mon. I have, I don't know, I'm guessing half a dozen books from Kobold Press, and I haven't come across anything from them that I stupid. I think they should be in the Green List. I should note, I also own their Gamemaster book. I haven't read it closely, so such an article in it would seem to be an aberration. I have a whole set of those different books, composed of a dozen essays by a dozen authors. I also have two or three of their Monster Books. Fantastic stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: S'mon on October 20, 2021, 03:45:49 AM
Just wanted to put in another vote for moving Kobold Press out of Red. As I said in the KP thread: It  was one article in a book of essays by a variety of authors, including old school luminaries. Obviously lots of different POV.   This is Yellow class at the worst. I'd say it was less bad than Frog God's Vagina Edition of Swords & Wizardry, and they're in Green! Personally I would say that allowing viewpoint diversity in a book of essays is Green, no matter how obnoxious one of those views is.

Concur. Ocule, will you consider moving them to at least Yellow, if not Green?

Quote from: SHARK on October 20, 2021, 04:53:45 AM

Quote from: S'mon on October 20, 2021, 03:45:49 AM
Just wanted to put in another vote for moving Kobold Press out of Red. As I said in the KP thread: It  was one article in a book of essays by a variety of authors, including old school luminaries. Obviously lots of different POV.   This is Yellow class at the worst. I'd say it was less bad than Frog God's Vagina Edition of Swords & Wizardry, and they're in Green! Personally I would say that allowing viewpoint diversity in a book of essays is Green, no matter how obnoxious one of those views is.

Greetings!

I agree, S'mon. I have, I don't know, I'm guessing half a dozen books from Kobold Press, and I haven't come across anything from them that I stupid. I think they should be in the Green List. I should note, I also own their Gamemaster book. I haven't read it closely, so such an article in it would seem to be an aberration. I have a whole set of those different books, composed of a dozen essays by a dozen authors. I also have two or three of their Monster Books. Fantastic stuff!
...

SHARK is not exactly known for his undying love of all things SJW...

If he thinks that a company should be Green in spite of some article published in a single book. I'm very much inclined to to give Kobold press the benefit of the doubt!

Yellow probably - leaving in the way they brag about treating their writers..

Quote from: Jaeger on October 20, 2021, 03:14:05 PM

Quote from: SHARK on October 20, 2021, 04:53:45 AM

Quote from: S'mon on October 20, 2021, 03:45:49 AM
Just wanted to put in another vote for moving Kobold Press out of Red. As I said in the KP thread: It  was one article in a book of essays by a variety of authors, including old school luminaries. Obviously lots of different POV.   This is Yellow class at the worst. I'd say it was less bad than Frog God's Vagina Edition of Swords & Wizardry, and they're in Green! Personally I would say that allowing viewpoint diversity in a book of essays is Green, no matter how obnoxious one of those views is.

Greetings!

I agree, S'mon. I have, I don't know, I'm guessing half a dozen books from Kobold Press, and I haven't come across anything from them that I stupid. I think they should be in the Green List. I should note, I also own their Gamemaster book. I haven't read it closely, so such an article in it would seem to be an aberration. I have a whole set of those different books, composed of a dozen essays by a dozen authors. I also have two or three of their Monster Books. Fantastic stuff!
...

SHARK is not exactly known for his undying love of all things SJW...

If he thinks that a company should be Green in spite of some article published in a single book. I'm very much inclined to to give Kobold press the benefit of the doubt!

Yellow probably - leaving in the way they brag about treating their writers..

Don't they have Ginny D. as their occasional spokesperson? Didn't she famously say not to follow them or buy their products if you aren't an ally or if you are right wing in any way?

Quote from: VhaidraSaga on October 20, 2021, 03:45:54 PM
Don't they have Ginny D. as their occasional spokesperson? Didn't she famously say not to follow them or buy their products if you aren't an ally or if you are right wing in any way?

They definitely sponsor her videos - I know this as I am subbed to Ginny D, so I must be a Commie SJW.  She's definitely a Lefty but I don't know the quote you're referring to. If they've endorsed a 'don't buy our stuff if you're not an SJW' stance then that would be Red.

Quote from: S'mon on October 20, 2021, 04:13:24 PM

Quote from: VhaidraSaga on October 20, 2021, 03:45:54 PM
Don't they have Ginny D. as their occasional spokesperson? Didn't she famously say not to follow them or buy their products if you aren't an ally or if you are right wing in any way?

They definitely sponsor her videos - I know this as I am subbed to Ginny D, so I must be a Commie SJW.  She's definitely a Lefty but I don't know the quote you're referring to. If they've endorsed a 'don't buy our stuff if you're not an SJW' stance then that would be Red.

Greetings!

Ginny D...is she the quirky, dress-up D&D girl that makes weird videos about D&D?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on October 20, 2021, 04:16:22 PM

Quote from: S'mon on October 20, 2021, 04:13:24 PM

Quote from: VhaidraSaga on October 20, 2021, 03:45:54 PM
Don't they have Ginny D. as their occasional spokesperson? Didn't she famously say not to follow them or buy their products if you aren't an ally or if you are right wing in any way?

They definitely sponsor her videos - I know this as I am subbed to Ginny D, so I must be a Commie SJW.  She's definitely a Lefty but I don't know the quote you're referring to. If they've endorsed a 'don't buy our stuff if you're not an SJW' stance then that would be Red.

Greetings!

Ginny D...is she the quirky, dress-up D&D girl that makes weird videos about D&D?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yep.  Young-ish, green-haired, generally smiling and happy. Comes across as pleasant, and can sing.

Edit: Has some pretty decent crafting/costume-making skills too.