Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM


But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

What is the real value add here of more separation?

If I am woke, I can sift the red list to remove the few right wing nutjobs that are there (and ignore the yellow/green folks who clearly don't drink my flavor of coolaid.)

If I am centrist, I can sift the various colors for those that are "normal" (that coolaid flavor).

If I am a right winger, I can sift the green list for the "pure" and the red list for the one or two "miscategorized" people (another flavor).

If I think the woke are crazy loons, I can check the green list (might be someone there that I disagree with) and scan the yellow for a "miscategorization" (yet another flavor of coolaid).

No matter where you fall, the list is useful as the heavy lifting of sorting 80%+ of the "bad actors" (for one's definition thereof) has been done. Adding a "purple" offshoot of the red, and "blue" offshoot of the green adds more work for Ocule, more subjectivity (I'm still going to check things in "my" camp as I probably disagree with Ocule slightly).

IMO, Ocule has "shown his work" (think math class), which is good enough for me.

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on October 19, 2021, 12:25:54 AM
The existence of this thread; is a positive both for people who Don't want to support woke nonsense in RPGs, and also for people who Do want to support wokeness in RPGs.

There's really no reason to argue against, or hate the existence of the list.  Woke RPG companies should jockey for position on this list.  They should wear this as a badge of honor, since they believe in this woke stuff.

From what I had seen, they have. Though there are those on this forum who believe that it was all just an act.

But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

Several people, including many anti-woke people, people who are prominent in these forums, including Ocule himself, have floated the possibility of separating the two. It hasn't been done yet, and it seems to be the main issue raised by the guest "woke" commenters who have visited.

I say this fully expecting about a half-dozen or so posts ridiculing me with little else to add.

I find it odd, because I've quoted folks who are quite respected here saying the same thing I have said, but my motivations are suspect, so my position must be wrong, even if it isn't originally my own. I mean, I'm not fragile, I won't break. It's just an odd phenomenon.

What percentage of your community involvement has been in threads other than this one?

Take that answer, and hypothetically let's say it is zero, and form it into a question...

"Would you suspect that somebody who has posted nearly 60 times on one topic, yet zero on any other topic, has an agenda?"

BUT FINGERROD WE ALL HAVE AGENDAS! True, but actually being a part of the message board community one takes the time to sign up for is usually in there somewhere. If not, you just have the usual barking that you have on social media with drive by hot takes, outrage culture, and virtual signaling.

Quote from: FingerRod on October 19, 2021, 03:30:44 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on October 19, 2021, 12:25:54 AM
The existence of this thread; is a positive both for people who Don't want to support woke nonsense in RPGs, and also for people who Do want to support wokeness in RPGs.

There's really no reason to argue against, or hate the existence of the list.  Woke RPG companies should jockey for position on this list.  They should wear this as a badge of honor, since they believe in this woke stuff.

From what I had seen, they have. Though there are those on this forum who believe that it was all just an act.

But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

Several people, including many anti-woke people, people who are prominent in these forums, including Ocule himself, have floated the possibility of separating the two. It hasn't been done yet, and it seems to be the main issue raised by the guest "woke" commenters who have visited.

I say this fully expecting about a half-dozen or so posts ridiculing me with little else to add.

I find it odd, because I've quoted folks who are quite respected here saying the same thing I have said, but my motivations are suspect, so my position must be wrong, even if it isn't originally my own. I mean, I'm not fragile, I won't break. It's just an odd phenomenon.

What percentage of your community involvement has been in threads other than this one?

Take that answer, and hypothetically let's say it is zero, and form it into a question...

"Would you suspect that somebody who has posted nearly 60 times on one topic, yet zero on any other topic, has an agenda?"

BUT FINGERROD WE ALL HAVE AGENDAS! True, but actually being a part of the message board community one takes the time to sign up for is usually in there somewhere. If not, you just have the usual barking that you have on social media with drive by hot takes, outrage culture, and virtual signaling.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Very true, FingerRod! Excellent observations!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 03:41:22 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on October 19, 2021, 03:30:44 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on October 19, 2021, 12:25:54 AM
The existence of this thread; is a positive both for people who Don't want to support woke nonsense in RPGs, and also for people who Do want to support wokeness in RPGs.

There's really no reason to argue against, or hate the existence of the list.  Woke RPG companies should jockey for position on this list.  They should wear this as a badge of honor, since they believe in this woke stuff.

From what I had seen, they have. Though there are those on this forum who believe that it was all just an act.

But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

Several people, including many anti-woke people, people who are prominent in these forums, including Ocule himself, have floated the possibility of separating the two. It hasn't been done yet, and it seems to be the main issue raised by the guest "woke" commenters who have visited.

I say this fully expecting about a half-dozen or so posts ridiculing me with little else to add.

I find it odd, because I've quoted folks who are quite respected here saying the same thing I have said, but my motivations are suspect, so my position must be wrong, even if it isn't originally my own. I mean, I'm not fragile, I won't break. It's just an odd phenomenon.

What percentage of your community involvement has been in threads other than this one?

Take that answer, and hypothetically let's say it is zero, and form it into a question...

"Would you suspect that somebody who has posted nearly 60 times on one topic, yet zero on any other topic, has an agenda?"

BUT FINGERROD WE ALL HAVE AGENDAS! True, but actually being a part of the message board community one takes the time to sign up for is usually in there somewhere. If not, you just have the usual barking that you have on social media with drive by hot takes, outrage culture, and virtual signaling.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Very true, FingerRod! Excellent observations!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It is, as someone whose post history is in this thread more than any other myself, I mostly joined the forum due to this thread as I was sick of the woke idiots strawmanning the "neckbeard gamer" as an insult while proclaiming that they themselves are the "true people who play RPGs holy art thou" despite never reading a non-5e/Pathfinder/Star(furry)finder book that wasnt Harry Potter. Tbh I just want the woke idiots out of the hobby, because it has infected my FLGS and pretty much every other RPG forum on the net.

The best advice I've heard: the woke mob complains about gatekeeping because it doesn't let them easily corrupt something. So gatekeep harder for the sake of the hobby or dare RPGs go the way of comics in the modern day.

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on October 19, 2021, 06:37:59 PM

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 03:41:22 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on October 19, 2021, 03:30:44 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on October 19, 2021, 12:25:54 AM
The existence of this thread; is a positive both for people who Don't want to support woke nonsense in RPGs, and also for people who Do want to support wokeness in RPGs.

There's really no reason to argue against, or hate the existence of the list.  Woke RPG companies should jockey for position on this list.  They should wear this as a badge of honor, since they believe in this woke stuff.

From what I had seen, they have. Though there are those on this forum who believe that it was all just an act.

But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

Several people, including many anti-woke people, people who are prominent in these forums, including Ocule himself, have floated the possibility of separating the two. It hasn't been done yet, and it seems to be the main issue raised by the guest "woke" commenters who have visited.

I say this fully expecting about a half-dozen or so posts ridiculing me with little else to add.

I find it odd, because I've quoted folks who are quite respected here saying the same thing I have said, but my motivations are suspect, so my position must be wrong, even if it isn't originally my own. I mean, I'm not fragile, I won't break. It's just an odd phenomenon.

What percentage of your community involvement has been in threads other than this one?

Take that answer, and hypothetically let's say it is zero, and form it into a question...

"Would you suspect that somebody who has posted nearly 60 times on one topic, yet zero on any other topic, has an agenda?"

BUT FINGERROD WE ALL HAVE AGENDAS! True, but actually being a part of the message board community one takes the time to sign up for is usually in there somewhere. If not, you just have the usual barking that you have on social media with drive by hot takes, outrage culture, and virtual signaling.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Very true, FingerRod! Excellent observations!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It is, as someone whose post history is in this thread more than any other myself, I mostly joined the forum due to this thread as I was sick of the woke idiots strawmanning the "neckbeard gamer" as an insult while proclaiming that they themselves are the "true people who play RPGs holy art thou" despite never reading a non-5e/Pathfinder/Star(furry)finder book that wasnt Harry Potter. Tbh I just want the woke idiots out of the hobby, because it has infected my FLGS and pretty much every other RPG forum on the net.

The best advice I've heard: the woke mob complains about gatekeeping because it doesn't let them easily corrupt something. So gatekeep harder for the sake of the hobby or dare RPGs go the way of comics in the modern day.

Greetings!

Absolutely right, PonchoGoblin! You see this woke BS everywhere. Gaming groups, online, at game stores. ARRGGHHH! These jackasses need to be challenged and resisted at every opportunity! The SJW's thrive and grow in power when people just shut up and bow down.

Fuck that. Hammer them! Sneer at them! Deride them, and grind them the fuck down! THEY need to be made to feel "Uncomfortable" and "Unwelcome". Like General Patton used to say, "I'm not interested in "Holding" onto anything. We will attack, attack, attack, and destroy the enemy!" That is how the battle--and the war--is won. There is no compromise. There is no "negotiating". There is nothing to talk about with these weak, brainwashed morons, except how they need to shut the fuck up and go live under a fucking bridge, or in their parent's basement.

Light up a good pipe, pour a drink, friend, and determine to grow *strong*.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Howard on October 19, 2021, 02:50:07 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM


But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

What is the real value add here of more separation?

Ok, so eliminate my words from the conversation entirely. Let's go back to when Ocule and others suggested it. Ask them.

Never give an inch. Once you do...just give up everything.

Quote from: FingerRod on October 19, 2021, 03:30:44 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on October 19, 2021, 12:25:54 AM
The existence of this thread; is a positive both for people who Don't want to support woke nonsense in RPGs, and also for people who Do want to support wokeness in RPGs.

There's really no reason to argue against, or hate the existence of the list.  Woke RPG companies should jockey for position on this list.  They should wear this as a badge of honor, since they believe in this woke stuff.

From what I had seen, they have. Though there are those on this forum who believe that it was all just an act.

But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

Several people, including many anti-woke people, people who are prominent in these forums, including Ocule himself, have floated the possibility of separating the two. It hasn't been done yet, and it seems to be the main issue raised by the guest "woke" commenters who have visited.

I say this fully expecting about a half-dozen or so posts ridiculing me with little else to add.

I find it odd, because I've quoted folks who are quite respected here saying the same thing I have said, but my motivations are suspect, so my position must be wrong, even if it isn't originally my own. I mean, I'm not fragile, I won't break. It's just an odd phenomenon.

What percentage of your community involvement has been in threads other than this one?

Once again, as I pointed out, it was an idea that was suggested by multiple people who participate in this forum extensively.

Let's just pick one, Ocule suggested it at one point as an idea. I would say that he is a regular participant whose input is valued, in fact, he made a list that got quite a bit of attention.

What percentage is acceptable? Does he meet your bar?

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 09:39:59 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on October 19, 2021, 03:30:44 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 02:32:26 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on October 19, 2021, 12:25:54 AM
The existence of this thread; is a positive both for people who Don't want to support woke nonsense in RPGs, and also for people who Do want to support wokeness in RPGs.

There's really no reason to argue against, or hate the existence of the list.  Woke RPG companies should jockey for position on this list.  They should wear this as a badge of honor, since they believe in this woke stuff.

From what I had seen, they have. Though there are those on this forum who believe that it was all just an act.

But, this is the standard issue where "woke" is presented as political by default, and thus red.

But anti-woke, which is a position on "wokeness," is presented in the same category as apolitical.

Several people, including many anti-woke people, people who are prominent in these forums, including Ocule himself, have floated the possibility of separating the two. It hasn't been done yet, and it seems to be the main issue raised by the guest "woke" commenters who have visited.

I say this fully expecting about a half-dozen or so posts ridiculing me with little else to add.

I find it odd, because I've quoted folks who are quite respected here saying the same thing I have said, but my motivations are suspect, so my position must be wrong, even if it isn't originally my own. I mean, I'm not fragile, I won't break. It's just an odd phenomenon.

What percentage of your community involvement has been in threads other than this one?

Once again, as I pointed out, it was an idea that was suggested by multiple people who participate in this forum extensively.

Let's just pick one, Ocule suggested it at one point as an idea. I would say that he is a regular participant whose input is valued, in fact, he made a list that got quite a bit of attention.

What percentage is acceptable? Does he meet your bar?

How about no?

Go make your own list and then put anyone to the right of Mao under the fascist list, IDGAF.

But here we don't let woke shitstains tell us what to do, think, say.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2021, 09:50:17 PM
How about no?

Go make your own list and then put anyone to the right of Mao under the fascist list, IDGAF.

But here we don't let woke shitstains tell us what to do, think, say.

How about I don't care enough nor will I.

But I am pointing out that many of you have a severe case of unironic "the messenger is more important than the message" going on.

I mean, I could have come in here and made a sock puppet and you'd never had a problem with it, as long as I engaged in the proper genuflection to the right holy icons... But I didn't have to, the things I would have said have ALREADY been said by people with extensive post history "of the right sort." Heck, I can just point at the list itself. Consistently, that's actually all that I've done.

You can go just back through this post and see the discussion about Tenkar who is in the green and his engaging in cancel culture, you can go back and find people on the list who are "edgelords supreme" and who otherwise take political opinions. They're the RIGHT opinions, but their opinions are "largely left out of their material."

Then look at the list in the yellow and see people who have the WRONG political opinion, but it still says "remains to be seen if it shows up in their materials."

I don't have time to engage in any ::LIST-MAKING:: like... y'all claim that only the left does.

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 10:01:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2021, 09:50:17 PM
How about no?

Go make your own list and then put anyone to the right of Mao under the fascist list, IDGAF.

But here we don't let woke shitstains tell us what to do, think, say.

How about I don't care enough nor will I.

But I am pointing out that many of you have a severe case of unironic "the messenger is more important than the message" going on.

I mean, I could have come in here and made a sock puppet and you'd never had a problem with it, as long as I engaged in the proper genuflection to the right holy icons... But I didn't have to, the things I would have said have ALREADY been said by people with extensive post history. Heck, I can just point at the list itself

You can go just back through this post and see the discussion about Tenkar who is in the green and his engaging in cancel culture, you can go back and find people on the list who are "edgelords supreme" and who otherwise take political opinions. They're the RIGHT opinions, but their opinions are "largely left out of their material."

Then look at the list in the yellow and see people who have the WRONG political opinion, but it still says "remains to be seen if it shows up in their materials."

I don't have time to engage in any ::LIST-MAKING:: like... y'all claim that only the left does.

For the last time imbecile:

The list isn't about people who have political opinions, it's about people who want to expell people from the hobby because of their political beliefs or not.

"If you disagree with my politics don't buy my game!"

Well Ocule is doing them a favor by pointing out who thinks this way and who doesn't.

It's also about who injects their politics in their product (turning it into political propaganda) or doesn't

I wouldn't be surprized to find out some in the green list vote democrat (or whatever flavor of commie scum they have in their country), but we don't give a fuck, because it's not about their personal politics or opinions, it's about their games being political propaganda or not and about them not wanting anyone to the right of Mao to buy their shit.

Much butthurt I sense in you
Cry more you should.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2021, 10:07:14 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 10:01:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2021, 09:50:17 PM
How about no?

Go make your own list and then put anyone to the right of Mao under the fascist list, IDGAF.

But here we don't let woke shitstains tell us what to do, think, say.

How about I don't care enough nor will I.

But I am pointing out that many of you have a severe case of unironic "the messenger is more important than the message" going on.

I mean, I could have come in here and made a sock puppet and you'd never had a problem with it, as long as I engaged in the proper genuflection to the right holy icons... But I didn't have to, the things I would have said have ALREADY been said by people with extensive post history. Heck, I can just point at the list itself

You can go just back through this post and see the discussion about Tenkar who is in the green and his engaging in cancel culture, you can go back and find people on the list who are "edgelords supreme" and who otherwise take political opinions. They're the RIGHT opinions, but their opinions are "largely left out of their material."

Then look at the list in the yellow and see people who have the WRONG political opinion, but it still says "remains to be seen if it shows up in their materials."

I don't have time to engage in any ::LIST-MAKING:: like... y'all claim that only the left does.

For the last time imbecile:

The list isn't about people who have political opinions, it's about people who want to expell people from the hobby because of their political beliefs or not.

"If you disagree with my politics don't buy my game!"

Well Ocule is doing them a favor by pointing out who thinks this way and who doesn't.

It's also about who injects their politics in their product (turning it into political propaganda) or doesn't

I wouldn't be surprized to find out some in the green list vote democrat (or whatever flavor of commie scum they have in their country), but we don't give a fuck, because it's not about their personal politics or opinions, it's about their games being political propaganda or not and about them not wanting anyone to the right of Mao to buy their shit.

Much butthurt I sense in you
Cry more you should.

So, let me ask you again: Where has Atlas Games said that? It's in the yellow list because the owner dislikes Trump, not because of any cancellation efforts its made. But Tenkar is in the green list DESPITE cancellation efforts that it made. There was a conversation about that. One gets green, one gets yellow, and the yellow is STATED AS APOLITICAL ON THE LIST.

Therer's others that are listed as apolitical in yellow, for example, Hero Games is in the yellow list because it "hired sensitivity readers."  Tell me, where is that cancellation of other games? It's listed as apolitical, but it hired sensitivity readers, so watch out, it's gonna come after other companies despite not having... actually done that.

See, your message smells an awful lot like cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, I'm an imbecile.

Think again, why is my message SOOOOOOO offensive to you, since I'm literally just repeating words FROM THE LIST.

Yet, holy cow, look at this, you're ANGRY. Why are you unleashing insults? I've been careful to not do anything like that, other than point out inconsistencies in the logic presented.

Why? Why are you angry?

Dont mind me.




A) hoshisabi
2)

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 10:17:00 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2021, 10:07:14 PM

Quote from: hoshisabi on October 19, 2021, 10:01:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2021, 09:50:17 PM
How about no?

Go make your own list and then put anyone to the right of Mao under the fascist list, IDGAF.

But here we don't let woke shitstains tell us what to do, think, say.

How about I don't care enough nor will I.

But I am pointing out that many of you have a severe case of unironic "the messenger is more important than the message" going on.

I mean, I could have come in here and made a sock puppet and you'd never had a problem with it, as long as I engaged in the proper genuflection to the right holy icons... But I didn't have to, the things I would have said have ALREADY been said by people with extensive post history. Heck, I can just point at the list itself

You can go just back through this post and see the discussion about Tenkar who is in the green and his engaging in cancel culture, you can go back and find people on the list who are "edgelords supreme" and who otherwise take political opinions. They're the RIGHT opinions, but their opinions are "largely left out of their material."

Then look at the list in the yellow and see people who have the WRONG political opinion, but it still says "remains to be seen if it shows up in their materials."

I don't have time to engage in any ::LIST-MAKING:: like... y'all claim that only the left does.

For the last time imbecile:

The list isn't about people who have political opinions, it's about people who want to expell people from the hobby because of their political beliefs or not.

"If you disagree with my politics don't buy my game!"

Well Ocule is doing them a favor by pointing out who thinks this way and who doesn't.

It's also about who injects their politics in their product (turning it into political propaganda) or doesn't

I wouldn't be surprized to find out some in the green list vote democrat (or whatever flavor of commie scum they have in their country), but we don't give a fuck, because it's not about their personal politics or opinions, it's about their games being political propaganda or not and about them not wanting anyone to the right of Mao to buy their shit.

Much butthurt I sense in you
Cry more you should.

So, let me ask you again: Where has Atlas Games said that? It's in the yellow list because the owner dislikes Trump, not because of any cancellation efforts its made. But Tenkar is in the green list DESPITE cancellation efforts that it made. There was a conversation about that. One gets green, one gets yellow, and the yellow is STATED AS APOLITICAL ON THE LIST.

Therer's others that are listed as apolitical in yellow, for example, Hero Games is in the yellow list because it "hired sensitivity readers."  Tell me, where is that cancellation of other games? It's listed as apolitical, but it hired sensitivity readers, so watch out, it's gonna come after other companies despite not having... actually done that.

See, your message smells an awful lot like cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, I'm an imbecile.

Think again, why is my message SOOOOOOO offensive to you, since I'm literally just repeating words FROM THE LIST.

Yet, holy cow, look at this, you're ANGRY. Why are you unleashing insults? I've been careful to not do anything like that, other than point out inconsistencies in the logic presented.

Why? Why are you angry?

Trust me snowflake, you haven't seen me angry.

If my words scare you maybe you should run to your safe space in TBP?

Quote from: Shasarak on October 19, 2021, 10:28:43 PM

Oh dude, so glad to hear from you again. With yet more amazing words of encouragement.

It's good hearing from you again, buddy. You're one of the shining examples of why I keep coming back!

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 19, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Trust me snowflake, you haven't seen me angry.

If my words scare you maybe you should run to your safe space in TBP?

Good, because I didn't intend to upset you. But you started to resort to ad hominem attacks, after using the No True Scottsman argument, so ... I had read that as anger.

That's usually the way when people who engage in intelligent discussion suddenly resort to those tactics.

But, seriously, is there any contradiction to "president of the company has severe TDS but games remain apolitical" being yellow, but Tenkar who actively sought to cancel a product on DM's Guild for having an ACAB position shows up on green.

I mean, hey, like you said, the trump card can simply be "Ocule made the list, that's what he wants" and I'm fine with that. He's done that with SJG, when I was pointing out a similar inconsistency, but he told us that he had heard details that he couldn't share. That's fair.

But, I've made a point to come here and argue my points sincerely. I honestly want to understand the logic. I don't feel scared or threatened, occasionally insulted, but heh, I've seen y'all dish it out to each other.