Quote from: pawsplay on September 14, 2021, 05:29:47 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 14, 2021, 04:34:06 PM
The reason Anti-Woke is in green is because they're not out to de-platform people for disagreeing with their beliefs while the Woke see nothing wrong with de-platforming anyone who disagrees with their orthodoxy (and the few on the right [for all the good that distinction is these days] who believe similarly are also on the red list) and will even make things up and use sock-puppets to create fake outrage in order to try and de-platform and financially ruin those they dislike.

It's your problem if you can't understand that key difference.

Isn't this a de-platforming list? Isn't this the same as some "woke" person saying you shouldn't buy XYZ, they are alt-right/anti-woke etc?

No, it's a platforming list. People on the red list have already said it's a good buyer's guide for them.

Saying someone should or shouldn't buy something is vastly different from de-platforming. Does this really need to be explained?

Quote from: oggsmash on September 14, 2021, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 14, 2021, 05:29:47 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 14, 2021, 04:34:06 PM
The reason Anti-Woke is in green is because they're not out to de-platform people for disagreeing with their beliefs while the Woke see nothing wrong with de-platforming anyone who disagrees with their orthodoxy (and the few on the right [for all the good that distinction is these days] who believe similarly are also on the red list) and will even make things up and use sock-puppets to create fake outrage in order to try and de-platform and financially ruin those they dislike.

It's your problem if you can't understand that key difference.

Isn't this a de-platforming list? Isn't this the same as some "woke" person saying you shouldn't buy XYZ, they are alt-right/anti-woke etc?

   De platforming is denying the chance to be for sale or seen.  Saying, "hey these stupid motherfuckers hate you," is just informing a customer.  No one is saying these people's products shouldnt be there, or even be bought, just that if you give a stupid motherfucker money who told you he hates you, you may want to rethink how you make decisions.   if you are not one of the people the stupid motherfucker hates, do you.

So by your definition, a lot of "woke" people aren't trying to de-platform anyone.

Quote from: pawsplay on September 14, 2021, 05:38:35 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 14, 2021, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 14, 2021, 05:29:47 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 14, 2021, 04:34:06 PM
The reason Anti-Woke is in green is because they're not out to de-platform people for disagreeing with their beliefs while the Woke see nothing wrong with de-platforming anyone who disagrees with their orthodoxy (and the few on the right [for all the good that distinction is these days] who believe similarly are also on the red list) and will even make things up and use sock-puppets to create fake outrage in order to try and de-platform and financially ruin those they dislike.

It's your problem if you can't understand that key difference.

Isn't this a de-platforming list? Isn't this the same as some "woke" person saying you shouldn't buy XYZ, they are alt-right/anti-woke etc?

   De platforming is denying the chance to be for sale or seen.  Saying, "hey these stupid motherfuckers hate you," is just informing a customer.  No one is saying these people's products shouldnt be there, or even be bought, just that if you give a stupid motherfucker money who told you he hates you, you may want to rethink how you make decisions.   if you are not one of the people the stupid motherfucker hates, do you.

So by your definition, a lot of "woke" people aren't trying to de-platform anyone.

But...I was told they wanted us dead...

Quote from: pawsplay on September 14, 2021, 05:38:35 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 14, 2021, 05:35:25 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 14, 2021, 05:29:47 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 14, 2021, 04:34:06 PM
The reason Anti-Woke is in green is because they're not out to de-platform people for disagreeing with their beliefs while the Woke see nothing wrong with de-platforming anyone who disagrees with their orthodoxy (and the few on the right [for all the good that distinction is these days] who believe similarly are also on the red list) and will even make things up and use sock-puppets to create fake outrage in order to try and de-platform and financially ruin those they dislike.

It's your problem if you can't understand that key difference.

Isn't this a de-platforming list? Isn't this the same as some "woke" person saying you shouldn't buy XYZ, they are alt-right/anti-woke etc?

   De platforming is denying the chance to be for sale or seen.  Saying, "hey these stupid motherfuckers hate you," is just informing a customer.  No one is saying these people's products shouldnt be there, or even be bought, just that if you give a stupid motherfucker money who told you he hates you, you may want to rethink how you make decisions.   if you are not one of the people the stupid motherfucker hates, do you.

So by your definition, a lot of "woke" people aren't trying to de-platform anyone.

  I wouldnt know.  I just know a bunch of them that make stuff said they hate me and do not want or need my money.  So I just give em what they asked for.

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:31:24 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 04:40:10 PM
Alright.... So all those videos claiming the list is a neutral buying guide are a lie? This list should be changed to be the anti-woke list. I'm not even woke, I just want companies to be fairly and accurately judged.

I'm not really sure what your problem is, here.  This list basically gives the reader information on which companies want to gatekeep him/her out of the hobby.  It enables the reader to make their own decisions by providing information.  If a company is "anti-woke," then it is, by necessity, against gatekeeping people out of the hobby.

I mean, it's time to call a spade a spade and stop pretending the woke crowd has a solid, rational, factual case here.  They are bullies and gatekeepers and this list tells you who is and who isn't.  I don't understand why you want to complicate it.  The Greens largely don't want to gatekeep (except for a few who want to gatekeep the SJWs because they are the actual gatekeepers and bullies).  This list works absolutely fine for me.  I can see, at a glance, what each creator/company thinks of me and everyone else who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid and I can now go and make my own decisions.

My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly. It's not about complicating it, but if Eric Tenkar for example can get something pulled from drivethru and remain green, then this is not at all a list based on principles and more just on personal taste in politics.

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM
My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly. It's not about complicating it, but if Eric Tenkar for example can get something pulled from drivethru and remain green, then this is not at all a list based on principles and more just on personal taste in politics.

Has Eric Tenkar said that he hates me and wants people like me and others here out of the hobby for being some sort of "istophobe?"  Because the principle seems pretty straightforward.  "Here's a list of people who have said they hate you (red), people who have submitted to the people who say they hate you (yellow), and people who don't say they hate you or actively oppose those who say they hate you (green)."

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:59:22 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM
My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly. It's not about complicating it, but if Eric Tenkar for example can get something pulled from drivethru and remain green, then this is not at all a list based on principles and more just on personal taste in politics.

Has Eric Tenkar said that he hates me and wants people like me and others here out of the hobby for being some sort of "istophobe?"  Because the principle seems pretty straightforward.  "Here's a list of people who have said they hate you (red), people who have submitted to the people who say they hate you (yellow), and people who don't say they hate you or actively oppose those who say they hate you (green)."

You are redefining the criteria. The red criteria clearly includes " interfered with other creators ".

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 06:01:18 PM

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:59:22 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM
My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly. It's not about complicating it, but if Eric Tenkar for example can get something pulled from drivethru and remain green, then this is not at all a list based on principles and more just on personal taste in politics.

Has Eric Tenkar said that he hates me and wants people like me and others here out of the hobby for being some sort of "istophobe?"  Because the principle seems pretty straightforward.  "Here's a list of people who have said they hate you (red), people who have submitted to the people who say they hate you (yellow), and people who don't say they hate you or actively oppose those who say they hate you (green)."

You are redefining the criteria. The red criteria clearly includes " interfered with other creators ".

  Was it the dude with the ACAB theme in his game?

Quote from: oggsmash on September 14, 2021, 06:02:42 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 06:01:18 PM

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:59:22 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM
My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly. It's not about complicating it, but if Eric Tenkar for example can get something pulled from drivethru and remain green, then this is not at all a list based on principles and more just on personal taste in politics.

Has Eric Tenkar said that he hates me and wants people like me and others here out of the hobby for being some sort of "istophobe?"  Because the principle seems pretty straightforward.  "Here's a list of people who have said they hate you (red), people who have submitted to the people who say they hate you (yellow), and people who don't say they hate you or actively oppose those who say they hate you (green)."

You are redefining the criteria. The red criteria clearly includes " interfered with other creators ".

  Was it the dude with the ACAB theme in his game?

According to the list, it was some dude with ACAB in the description. I don't know the specifics, I'm just trusting the list is accurate. While I don't agree with ACAB, that doesn't mean it should be censored.

"But but but...if you make this one little change I will accept it!!!!!!"

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 14, 2021, 10:31:23 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 13, 2021, 10:51:47 AM

Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 10:47:59 AM
He's another grifter doing what grifters do.

Indeed... One minute saying, how shit and 'racist' wotc are. Then sucks of their teet. Theres principals for you. LOL

Not just that, but Khwan's "asian" themed Candlekeep adventure was in no way more in-depth or authentic than what any white guy who watched a lot of kung fu movies could have written. There was literally no difference that justified his argument that only people of Chinese blood could possibly write asian-themed RPG material.

From what I've seen, Daniel Kwan is what Asians call a "banana."  Yellow exterior but white on the inside. 

And as a white guy with a PhD in Asian history and an Asian wife I can attest that I know way more about Asian history and traditional culture than lots of actual Asians.  My guess is that Danny Kwan can't even read the historical sources in Classical Chinese that I was reading yesterday for my research.  But sure, he's way more qualified than me to write Asian-rpg materials....

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 06:01:18 PM

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:59:22 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM
My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly. It's not about complicating it, but if Eric Tenkar for example can get something pulled from drivethru and remain green, then this is not at all a list based on principles and more just on personal taste in politics.

Has Eric Tenkar said that he hates me and wants people like me and others here out of the hobby for being some sort of "istophobe?"  Because the principle seems pretty straightforward.  "Here's a list of people who have said they hate you (red), people who have submitted to the people who say they hate you (yellow), and people who don't say they hate you or actively oppose those who say they hate you (green)."

You are redefining the criteria. The red criteria clearly includes " interfered with other creators ".

This ultimately came down to a balancing of scales with Tenkar. I don't really have a real connection with him and occasionally run across something hes written so I don't have a vested interest one way or another. People earlier in the thread made a strong case for that group, we have also previously established it is possible for creators to redeem themselves and move upward if they establish new patterns of behavior, show remorse for their actions or other factors in the decision. The text after his name is there to make the reader aware of a history that might come up should they do even a basic search so might as well make it readily available.

Quote from: Persimmon on September 14, 2021, 06:12:21 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 14, 2021, 10:31:23 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 13, 2021, 10:51:47 AM

Quote from: tenbones on September 13, 2021, 10:47:59 AM
He's another grifter doing what grifters do.

Indeed... One minute saying, how shit and 'racist' wotc are. Then sucks of their teet. Theres principals for you. LOL

Not just that, but Khwan's "asian" themed Candlekeep adventure was in no way more in-depth or authentic than what any white guy who watched a lot of kung fu movies could have written. There was literally no difference that justified his argument that only people of Chinese blood could possibly write asian-themed RPG material.

From what I've seen, Daniel Kwan is what Asians call a "banana."  Yellow exterior but white on the inside. 

And as a white guy with a PhD in Asian history and an Asian wife I can attest that I know way more about Asian history and traditional culture than lots of actual Asians.  My guess is that Danny Kwan can't even read the historical sources in Classical Chinese that I was reading yesterday for my research.  But sure, he's way more qualified than me to write Asian-rpg materials....

I suspected as much. I'm like this "asian" is from cali or some shit like that, and probably only speaks english.

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:31:24 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 04:40:10 PM
Alright.... So all those videos claiming the list is a neutral buying guide are a lie? This list should be changed to be the anti-woke list. I'm not even woke, I just want companies to be fairly and accurately judged.

I'm not really sure what your problem is, here.  This list basically gives the reader information on which companies want to gatekeep him/her out of the hobby.  It enables the reader to make their own decisions by providing information.  If a company is "anti-woke," then it is, by necessity, against gatekeeping people out of the hobby.

I mean, it's time to call a spade a spade and stop pretending the woke crowd has a solid, rational, factual case here.  They are bullies and gatekeepers and this list tells you who is and who isn't.  I don't understand why you want to complicate it.  The Greens largely don't want to gatekeep (except for a few who want to gatekeep the SJWs because they are the actual gatekeepers and bullies).  This list works absolutely fine for me.  I can see, at a glance, what each creator/company thinks of me and everyone else who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid and I can now go and make my own decisions.

My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly.

Oh yes, now you want criteria to be adhered to fairly.

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 06:08:14 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 14, 2021, 06:02:42 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 06:01:18 PM

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:59:22 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM
My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly. It's not about complicating it, but if Eric Tenkar for example can get something pulled from drivethru and remain green, then this is not at all a list based on principles and more just on personal taste in politics.

Has Eric Tenkar said that he hates me and wants people like me and others here out of the hobby for being some sort of "istophobe?"  Because the principle seems pretty straightforward.  "Here's a list of people who have said they hate you (red), people who have submitted to the people who say they hate you (yellow), and people who don't say they hate you or actively oppose those who say they hate you (green)."

You are redefining the criteria. The red criteria clearly includes " interfered with other creators ".

  Was it the dude with the ACAB theme in his game?

According to the list, it was some dude with ACAB in the description. I don't know the specifics, I'm just trusting the list is accurate. While I don't agree with ACAB, that doesn't mean it should be censored.

   Without more to it, I think I will just go with the list author's judgement then. 

Quote from: Shasarak on September 14, 2021, 06:21:49 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 05:47:27 PM

Quote from: Fvlminatvs on September 14, 2021, 05:31:24 PM

Quote from: Korgoth on September 14, 2021, 04:40:10 PM
Alright.... So all those videos claiming the list is a neutral buying guide are a lie? This list should be changed to be the anti-woke list. I'm not even woke, I just want companies to be fairly and accurately judged.

I'm not really sure what your problem is, here.  This list basically gives the reader information on which companies want to gatekeep him/her out of the hobby.  It enables the reader to make their own decisions by providing information.  If a company is "anti-woke," then it is, by necessity, against gatekeeping people out of the hobby.

I mean, it's time to call a spade a spade and stop pretending the woke crowd has a solid, rational, factual case here.  They are bullies and gatekeepers and this list tells you who is and who isn't.  I don't understand why you want to complicate it.  The Greens largely don't want to gatekeep (except for a few who want to gatekeep the SJWs because they are the actual gatekeepers and bullies).  This list works absolutely fine for me.  I can see, at a glance, what each creator/company thinks of me and everyone else who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid and I can now go and make my own decisions.

My only problem is that I want the criteria to be adhered to fairly.

Oh yes, now you want criteria to be adhered to fairly.

lmao what are you talking about dude?.... Check my post history. I actually put proof in this thread way back when it started.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/list-ttrpg-guide-to-woke-companies/msg1183088/#msg1183088