Quote from: Persimmon on September 11, 2021, 01:04:22 PM
Found it: it was Greg Gorgonmilk: https://rendedpress.blogspot.com/2017/09/greg-gorgonmilk-and-i-were-online.html

I think Pundit did an interview with him as well.  Just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.  At least Gavin sort of explains his rationale here.  Others around here probably know more details than me.

I think these might be the links you are looking for:

The RPGPundit: My Interview with Greg Gorgonmilk About the Ctrl-Left Attempt to Subvert the OSR: http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2017/09/my-interview-with-greg-gorgonmilk-about.html

Greg Gorgonmilk is not a Nazi, but the OSR's Fascist-Left Drove Him Out Anyways: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/greg-gorgonmilk-is-not-a-nazi-but-the-osr-s-fascist-left-drove-him-out-anyways/165/

In reference to  Schwalb Entertainment

I will also say that during the height of the 2020 madness, Schwalb was sporting an Always Antifascist portrait frame in support of Antifa's activities. That is really hard to stomach. Then again so did Bob Brinkman from Goodman Games. Schwalb also changed the name of his newer game from Shadow of the Mad Wizard to "Weird Wizard" so as not to offend people that might be triggered by that word "Mad". One of my players is a licensed counselor and found this ridiculous beyond belief. That was the final straw for me. Mr. Edgelord was definitely not as edgy as he made out.  He also seems to have no problem signing anything he writes with a "Hail Satan" that might offend Christians though.

SotDL had been one of the most enjoyable games I've played in years, but considering the above, does he belong on the Green list? Not sure.

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on September 11, 2021, 08:36:40 PM
In reference to  Schwalb Entertainment

I will also say that during the height of the 2020 madness, Schwalb was sporting an Always Antifascist portrait frame in support of Antifa's activities. That is really hard to stomach. Then again so did Bob Brinkman from Goodman Games. Schwalb also changed the name of his newer game from Shadow of the Mad Wizard to "Weird Wizard" so as not to offend people that might be triggered by that word "Mad". One of my players is a licensed counselor and found this ridiculous beyond belief. That was the final straw for me. Mr. Edgelord was definitely not as edgy as he made out.  He also seems to have no problem signing anything he writes with a "Hail Satan" that might offend Christians though.

SotDL had been one of the most enjoyable games I've played in years, but considering the above, does he belong on the Green list? Not sure.

Only going by what you have posted here. 100% yes. The yellow and red areas should be for folks who force feed there politics into their products and/or abuse there own customers with hateful rhetoric or worse.

Someone has on a T-shirt? Gimmie a fing break. Lets not become what we are fighting. I do not give a rats ass what someone's personal politics are. It's a free country if you want to join the Cthulhu party, have at it. Just do not try and force feed your politics into our rpg's and do not start measuring your own customers for sacrificial sackcloth's and we are fine.

The list is informative and helpful to know where to put your money. Lets not ruin it.

Quote from: Karl on September 11, 2021, 09:19:31 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on September 11, 2021, 08:36:40 PM
In reference to  Schwalb Entertainment

I will also say that during the height of the 2020 madness, Schwalb was sporting an Always Antifascist portrait frame in support of Antifa's activities. That is really hard to stomach. Then again so did Bob Brinkman from Goodman Games. Schwalb also changed the name of his newer game from Shadow of the Mad Wizard to "Weird Wizard" so as not to offend people that might be triggered by that word "Mad". One of my players is a licensed counselor and found this ridiculous beyond belief. That was the final straw for me. Mr. Edgelord was definitely not as edgy as he made out.  He also seems to have no problem signing anything he writes with a "Hail Satan" that might offend Christians though.

SotDL had been one of the most enjoyable games I've played in years, but considering the above, does he belong on the Green list? Not sure.

Only going by what you have posted here. 100% yes. The yellow and red areas should be for folks who force feed there politics into their products and/or abuse there own customers with hateful rhetoric or worse.

Someone has on a T-shirt? Gimmie a fing break. Lets not become what we are fighting. I do not give a rats ass what someone's personal politics are. It's a free country if you want to join the Cthulhu party, have at it. Just do not try and force feed your politics into our rpg's and do not start measuring your own customers for sacrificial sackcloth's and we are fine.

The list is informative and helpful to know where to put your money. Lets not ruin it.

The open support of Antifa is pretty hard to stomach, but fair enough.

Quote from: Persimmon on September 11, 2021, 01:04:22 PM
Found it: it was Greg Gorgonmilk: https://rendedpress.blogspot.com/2017/09/greg-gorgonmilk-and-i-were-online.html

I think Pundit did an interview with him as well.  Just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.  At least Gavin sort of explains his rationale here.  Others around here probably know more details than me.

Yup. Gorgonmilk is a good guy.  Gavin was wrong (as so many others were) for throwing him under the bus just on the screeching harpy-cries of the SJWs.

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on September 11, 2021, 10:28:48 PM

Quote from: Karl on September 11, 2021, 09:19:31 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on September 11, 2021, 08:36:40 PM
In reference to  Schwalb Entertainment

I will also say that during the height of the 2020 madness, Schwalb was sporting an Always Antifascist portrait frame in support of Antifa's activities. That is really hard to stomach. Then again so did Bob Brinkman from Goodman Games. Schwalb also changed the name of his newer game from Shadow of the Mad Wizard to "Weird Wizard" so as not to offend people that might be triggered by that word "Mad". One of my players is a licensed counselor and found this ridiculous beyond belief. That was the final straw for me. Mr. Edgelord was definitely not as edgy as he made out.  He also seems to have no problem signing anything he writes with a "Hail Satan" that might offend Christians though.

SotDL had been one of the most enjoyable games I've played in years, but considering the above, does he belong on the Green list? Not sure.

Only going by what you have posted here. 100% yes. The yellow and red areas should be for folks who force feed there politics into their products and/or abuse there own customers with hateful rhetoric or worse.

Someone has on a T-shirt? Gimmie a fing break. Lets not become what we are fighting. I do not give a rats ass what someone's personal politics are. It's a free country if you want to join the Cthulhu party, have at it. Just do not try and force feed your politics into our rpg's and do not start measuring your own customers for sacrificial sackcloth's and we are fine.

The list is informative and helpful to know where to put your money. Lets not ruin it.

The open support of Antifa is pretty hard to stomach, but fair enough.

Yeah didn't know he was throwing in with antifa, that might be straight to red. It's the same as throwing in with isis or national socialist party far as I'm concerned. So is it ignorance or malice? What do y'all think

Wanted to see about possibly getting Tuesday Knight Games added for Mothership RPG as either yellow or red
No anti-customer/individual behaviour that I am aware of, so maybe not red, just very specific overarching themes across many of its paid materials

Examples:
Dead Planet supplement:
descriptions and themes: "The soldiers of the Defiance's last, and poorly paying, job was crushing a loggers strike on a timber planet, silencing their mewling pleas for basic quality of life protections." (workers rights is a common issue in the game, evil corporations being to blame, never other forms of oppression like big government or totalitarianism)
item descriptions: "ZIPPO: FUCK CAPITALISM" (no "f communism" or f any other left-wing political affiliation), "PIN: Bleed the Pigs"
various other items suggesting current world views (anti-religion, pro-fetishism etc)

Pound of Flesh supplement:
Workers union conflict as a central plot of the module (I haven't read PoF that much tbh, but it is sold in "leftism" section of at least one retailer)

Places of authority/leadership disproportionately occupied by non-males: these are nit-picky, but after purchasing all major books/supplements, its quite noticeable and cringy
Haunting of Ypsilon 14: Sonya, mining station lead (1 out of 1)
Dead Planet: Captain Yancheg of the Alexis, colony leader Malta (2 out of 2, unclear who lead the marines of the Defiance, but they were murderers anyways)
Pound of Flesh: Yandu, crime boss and defacto "leader" of Prospero's Dream (referred to by "they," appears feminine in art)
Gradient Descent: Rachel Kilroy, leader of the Trouble-shooters(badass spec ops soldiers, 1/1 as far as humans "in power")
 
I must say that I don't wish anything negative on anyone who is involved in or likes Mothership and I think games like this should definitely exist, but be more upfront about their world views. It is important to point out that in all my time spent playing it with its discord server peeps, I have always had a polite and decent experience (aside from the pronoun stuff and occasional pro-left rants but that's down to individual preference). This is more of a heads up for customers who might be expecting a variety or non-specificity of world views from the game, but later coming to find out its very specific leanings and in-world politics. Obviously in and of itself this is not a criticism of the material, but as a paying customer I would have liked a more upfront disclosure of its politics since it was marketed as an anti-cannon sci-fi horror rpg.

Sorry to hear about Shwalb because I picked up Punkapocalyptic a few weeks ago.

Quote from: Ocule on September 11, 2021, 11:22:57 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on September 11, 2021, 10:28:48 PM

Quote from: Karl on September 11, 2021, 09:19:31 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on September 11, 2021, 08:36:40 PM
In reference to  Schwalb Entertainment

I will also say that during the height of the 2020 madness, Schwalb was sporting an Always Antifascist portrait frame in support of Antifa's activities. That is really hard to stomach. Then again so did Bob Brinkman from Goodman Games. Schwalb also changed the name of his newer game from Shadow of the Mad Wizard to "Weird Wizard" so as not to offend people that might be triggered by that word "Mad". One of my players is a licensed counselor and found this ridiculous beyond belief. That was the final straw for me. Mr. Edgelord was definitely not as edgy as he made out.  He also seems to have no problem signing anything he writes with a "Hail Satan" that might offend Christians though.

SotDL had been one of the most enjoyable games I've played in years, but considering the above, does he belong on the Green list? Not sure.

Only going by what you have posted here. 100% yes. The yellow and red areas should be for folks who force feed there politics into their products and/or abuse there own customers with hateful rhetoric or worse.

Someone has on a T-shirt? Gimmie a fing break. Lets not become what we are fighting. I do not give a rats ass what someone's personal politics are. It's a free country if you want to join the Cthulhu party, have at it. Just do not try and force feed your politics into our rpg's and do not start measuring your own customers for sacrificial sackcloth's and we are fine.

The list is informative and helpful to know where to put your money. Lets not ruin it.

The open support of Antifa is pretty hard to stomach, but fair enough.

Yeah didn't know he was throwing in with antifa, that might be straight to red. It's the same as throwing in with isis or national socialist party far as I'm concerned. So is it ignorance or malice? What do y'all think

As I said, if the list becomes about personal preferences and a judgment on someone's beliefs it becomes trash. Thought Crimes and shit like that is what we are fighting. If we do the same as them....wtf does it matter? Someone can worship Adolf Hitler or belong to the Sherly Temple Fan Club  and I don't give a crap. It's what people do that matters. Join Antifa? Have at it....actually go out and commit crimes? That's a whole other story and you will pay. You hurt people and/or put garbage in your games and I want to know about it so I can not pay good money for it.

People have the right to think what they want and be as wrong as they want as long as that doesn't hurt anyone else.

Once you start to judge what it in someone's head it's all over because every one of us has messed up thoughts and has a different viewpoint on what is ok and what isn't.

If the list is on what companies/designers DO and put in their games then it's useful.

After all if a company is the correct political party to you but puts political crap in thee games and or treats some of their customers like garbage they go on the red list to right?




*Also if you think Joining antifa is the same as joining fing Isis you need a reality check. Again, lets not be like them. Isis murders and kills innocent people by the thousands and wages actual war. Antifa while I personally think is horrible isn't even playing the same game as Isis. To label them the same is to lesson the evil/crimes of Isis. 

  Thought crimes I agree we need to be wary of....but... I also think if someone told me they are an outright nazi, and to me antifa is CLEARLY as bad, and their stated intentions are around toppling the country... Those are a bit different than thought crimes.  Being left is one thing, outright antifa support can only be abject ignorance latched onto a name (well if it is ANTI fascist isnt it good?) or they are pretty much stated enemies of the country. 

   I think a whole lot of antifa "support" though is just following the edge of mainstream leads, people on CNN run their mouth about antifa being positive, so I can forgive an artist who may not be very aware for latching onto something that whizzed by their faces.   I am in the camp that until you start running your mouth about not needing my money, or removing me from your hobby, I can still do business.   I also think it can be a very small step from supporting antifa to doing just that though.

Quote from: shroomster on September 12, 2021, 12:10:30 AM
Wanted to see about possibly getting Tuesday Knight Games added for Mothership RPG as either yellow or red
No anti-customer/individual behaviour that I am aware of, so maybe not red, just very specific overarching themes across many of its paid materials

Examples:
Dead Planet supplement:
descriptions and themes: "The soldiers of the Defiance's last, and poorly paying, job was crushing a loggers strike on a timber planet, silencing their mewling pleas for basic quality of life protections." (workers rights is a common issue in the game, evil corporations being to blame, never other forms of oppression like big government or totalitarianism)
item descriptions: "ZIPPO: FUCK CAPITALISM" (no "f communism" or f any other left-wing political affiliation), "PIN: Bleed the Pigs"
various other items suggesting current world views (anti-religion, pro-fetishism etc)

Pound of Flesh supplement:
Workers union conflict as a central plot of the module (I haven't read PoF that much tbh, but it is sold in "leftism" section of at least one retailer)

Places of authority/leadership disproportionately occupied by non-males: these are nit-picky, but after purchasing all major books/supplements, its quite noticeable and cringy
Haunting of Ypsilon 14: Sonya, mining station lead (1 out of 1)
Dead Planet: Captain Yancheg of the Alexis, colony leader Malta (2 out of 2, unclear who lead the marines of the Defiance, but they were murderers anyways)
Pound of Flesh: Yandu, crime boss and defacto "leader" of Prospero's Dream (referred to by "they," appears feminine in art)
Gradient Descent: Rachel Kilroy, leader of the Trouble-shooters(badass spec ops soldiers, 1/1 as far as humans "in power")
 
I must say that I don't wish anything negative on anyone who is involved in or likes Mothership and I think games like this should definitely exist, but be more upfront about their world views. It is important to point out that in all my time spent playing it with its discord server peeps, I have always had a polite and decent experience (aside from the pronoun stuff and occasional pro-left rants but that's down to individual preference). This is more of a heads up for customers who might be expecting a variety or non-specificity of world views from the game, but later coming to find out its very specific leanings and in-world politics. Obviously in and of itself this is not a criticism of the material, but as a paying customer I would have liked a more upfront disclosure of its politics since it was marketed as an anti-cannon sci-fi horror rpg.

I also have an interest in Mothership, and I would not consider these in-game setting details sufficient to put TKG in yellow, let alone red. The stuff you mentioned from Dead Planet makes me roll my eyes a little, but I have A Pound of Flesh, and I would not say it belabors the teamsters as morally superior victims of evil capitalist overlords or anything like that. The setting is political in some sense, but in a way that feels natural and organic, not in the sense of a preachy, self-righteous, simplistic allegory for specific 21st century issues. And isn't that exactly what we want?

Quote from: oggsmash on September 12, 2021, 07:09:04 AM
  Thought crimes I agree we need to be wary of....but... I also think if someone told me they are an outright nazi, and to me antifa is CLEARLY as bad, and their stated intentions are around toppling the country... Those are a bit different than thought crimes.  Being left is one thing, outright antifa support can only be abject ignorance latched onto a name (well if it is ANTI fascist isnt it good?) or they are pretty much stated enemies of the country. 

   I think a whole lot of antifa "support" though is just following the edge of mainstream leads, people on CNN run their mouth about antifa being positive, so I can forgive an artist who may not be very aware for latching onto something that whizzed by their faces.   I am in the camp that until you start running your mouth about not needing my money, or removing me from your hobby, I can still do business.   I also think it can be a very small step from supporting antifa to doing just that though.

Good points all, oggsmash. I personally choose to not do business with him anymore. Its tough though, because like I said, I love his game system. Its given me more successful games from start to finish than any other game in the last decade.

Though Weird Wizard looks to be inching more towards Fate influencing it than the OSR.. so it would likely have been a pass for me anyway.

Quote from: Plotinus on September 12, 2021, 07:48:15 AM

Quote from: shroomster on September 12, 2021, 12:10:30 AM
Wanted to see about possibly getting Tuesday Knight Games added for Mothership RPG as either yellow or red
No anti-customer/individual behaviour that I am aware of, so maybe not red, just very specific overarching themes across many of its paid materials
*snip*

I also have an interest in Mothership, and I would not consider these in-game setting details sufficient to put TKG in yellow, let alone red. The stuff you mentioned from Dead Planet makes me roll my eyes a little, but I have A Pound of Flesh, and I would not say it belabors the teamsters as morally superior victims of evil capitalist overlords or anything like that. The setting is political in some sense, but in a way that feels natural and organic, not in the sense of a preachy, self-righteous, simplistic allegory for specific 21st century issues. And isn't that exactly what we want?

After posting I saw that in the google doc of the list that TKG is on the yellow list for Dissident Whispers so my post is basically irrelevant anyways.
I really liked reading the google doc as it clearly outlines the purpose of the list as a consumer tool and not an inditement of the games themselves.

As for Mothership, again the game or its base being left leaning in its politics (imo) IS NOT AN INDITEMENT of the game, its players or designers in any way. To me the list colors are like allergen content information for people who might be allergic to those specifics for whatever reason. If anything the list can be used by people who are looking for these exact types of games and player-bases to find likeminded individuals. The choice of using colors could suggest red being inferior or hazardous in some way over green, but I don't consider Mothership inferior to another game because of its in-game political leanings or its players'/designers' personal beliefs. I simply would have liked a more upfront marketing campaign in letting me know that this game will focus on politics and socio-economic issues as much as it does.

In my case I spent upwards of 100 bucks on Mothership thinking it was an agnostic space horror game akin to Alien and Event Horizon, focused on supernatural or biological horrors and not so heavily laden with social, economic and political overtones (for my tastes of course). Conversely, if a person wanted a sci-fi horror game with these overtones, they again could use the list and find their preferred style of game, which seems like a win/win in my book.

Again, I fully support any rpg's right to exist, just wish some were more explicit in their mission statement. A good example:
"Tomorrow on Revelation III: a tabletop roleplaying game about surviving and building community on a hyper-capitalist space station"
The messaging is clear and the customer is aware about what the product world entails, allowing them to make an informed decision about their purchase.
For me personally its not the right game as I prefer dumb bug hunts and space demons, but hey, I'm super stoked for the people who want to play and support it financially!

Lastly, to me sci-fi settings that mimic current politics do not feel organic or natural if they do not provide in-game world reasons for things being that way. For example in Dune, we know that specific political issues arise in the world around weaponry and space travel as most weapons and machines are outlawed, paving the way for the Space Guild's oppressive chokehold on the world's economy via spice. In the case of Mothership union workers are commonly persecuted grunts, yet no world reason is given for their near-constant oppression, almost as if the worker's natural state is that of being oppressed. Maybe I missed something and there is an in-world reason for worker oppression, callous military, evil corporations etc, but I have seen many mentions on the Mothership discord about the setting being "anti-cannon" and not tied to any specifics, which is why it is jarring for me to read about yet another group of unionized laborers being put down by and feuding with corporate-owned thugs and military (PoF, Picket Line Tango, briefly in Dead Planet, and potentially others).

I am fully willing to accept my hypersensitivity on this topic (being born and bred in the collapsing Soviet Union), so maybe I am alone in spotting these tropes in Mothership. My goal isn't to diminish anyone's love for it, but to give an informative angle to prospective buyers.

Quote from: Karl on September 12, 2021, 06:32:06 AM

*Also if you think Joining antifa is the same as joining fing Isis you need a reality check. Again, lets not be like them. Isis murders and kills innocent people by the thousands and wages actual war. Antifa while I personally think is horrible isn't even playing the same game as Isis. To label them the same is to lesson the evil/crimes of Isis.

Antifa shot a dude in the back for wearing a maga hat, and the muderer got an i terview with Vice, trying to make him look like a hero before the cops shot him for not surrendering.

Antifa was caught with gas cans while walking away from the fires in california.

Buildings that Antifa torched were found with dead people in them from the fires. 

Antifa has committed violence against black people, destroyed boack owned businesses, attacked gays and asians, and are noted for yelling out racial epithets, and anti gay insults while doing so. 

RPG Pundit, if you ban me for this off-topic post, then I humbly ask you ban this terrorist apologist as well.

I'll take one for the team.

So because I said there is a difference between killing 10 people and 2 million like Hitler or 10,000 like Isis then i'm a terrorist apologist? Dude you are acting just like the leftists.. Your fucking feelings are not facts.

But we are not talking abut someone who joined Antifa you loon! The guy wore a T-shirt with the Antifa logo. He wore a T-shirt and almost 2 years ago is the reason someone wants to put his entire company on the red or yellow list. but because I say "Wait a minute this seems messed up" I'm a Terrorist apologist?

Are we not capable of a little rational thought?