Quote from: PonchoGoblin on September 10, 2021, 04:09:01 PM

Quote from: ArtemisWyrm on September 10, 2021, 04:04:17 PM
What IS the threshold for being on the list? I know with the green it includes small publishers as a pat on the back, but how many books does it take to put you on the red list?

I'd argue not an amount written per se, but that at least a few works, written solely by the person or released by the publisher, on the gold best sellers list at least. Should be a pretty high barrier to entry there, because that means they are decently known in a hobby and have actually contributed, and aren't just shilling for clout and connections. Likewise they need to be at least relevant within the last 5 years so you don't get people like John Wick trying to get on it when they haven't done anything in a decade.

Edit: idk if @Ocule wants to chime in on this though, since I don't really feel comfortable speaking for him. I don't edit the list, mostly just here to mock the red list beggars now and give some suggestions.

A far as the barrier to entry for red list i'm more or less doing it based on suggestions, there isn't really like a set number of sales required or something but really they should actively have some kind of IP. If they sold it off, or the company closed down then it's kind of a moot point to put them on it. Kind of like doing a review of blockbuster video today. As far as names they should be at least somewhat well known, and actually produce content. I've removed a lot of the names whose whole premise for existing and advertising as a political product. Like Coyote and Crow or #Feminism. They have an obvious audience and are probably giant dickholes.

The criteria for red had to become a bit stricter because I don't want to provide free advertising for people, but if they are reasonably deceptive or a reasonable person could be misled, then they deserve a spot. If they don't really produce rpgs, or maybe had a small mention in a known book somewhere then they're too small to care. Like being a mention in D&D, and producing like one issue of a zine is not worth covering. I'll admit, most of it is a matter of opinion and since i've been curating the list it's ultimately up to me whether I think someone is influential enough to be included.

Green i'm much more open to small publishers because I dont mind helping them get their names out there because they are doing something good. I'd rather put more effort into praise than chastisement.

Quote from: Ocule on September 10, 2021, 04:42:37 PM

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on September 10, 2021, 04:09:01 PM

Quote from: ArtemisWyrm on September 10, 2021, 04:04:17 PM
What IS the threshold for being on the list? I know with the green it includes small publishers as a pat on the back, but how many books does it take to put you on the red list?

I'd argue not an amount written per se, but that at least a few works, written solely by the person or released by the publisher, on the gold best sellers list at least. Should be a pretty high barrier to entry there, because that means they are decently known in a hobby and have actually contributed, and aren't just shilling for clout and connections. Likewise they need to be at least relevant within the last 5 years so you don't get people like John Wick trying to get on it when they haven't done anything in a decade.

Edit: idk if @Ocule wants to chime in on this though, since I don't really feel comfortable speaking for him. I don't edit the list, mostly just here to mock the red list beggars now and give some suggestions.

A far as the barrier to entry for red list i'm more or less doing it based on suggestions, there isn't really like a set number of sales required or something but really they should actively have some kind of IP. If they sold it off, or the company closed down then it's kind of a moot point to put them on it. Kind of like doing a review of blockbuster video today. As far as names they should be at least somewhat well known, and actually produce content. I've removed a lot of the names whose whole premise for existing and advertising as a political product. Like Coyote and Crow or #Feminism. They have an obvious audience and are probably giant dickholes.

The criteria for red had to become a bit stricter because I don't want to provide free advertising for people, but if they are reasonably deceptive or a reasonable person could be misled, then they deserve a spot. If they don't really produce rpgs, or maybe had a small mention in a known book somewhere then they're too small to care. Like being a mention in D&D, and producing like one issue of a zine is not worth covering. I'll admit, most of it is a matter of opinion and since i've been curating the list it's ultimately up to me whether I think someone is influential enough to be included.

Green i'm much more open to small publishers because I dont mind helping them get their names out there because they are doing something good. I'd rather put more effort into praise than chastisement.

Fair enough! Last I checked, I think Coyote and Crow was still on there so the link to the newest version might be different than your sig? And rewarding the green is a good call, love how most of the green is people in the OSR lol

I might also suggest adding Ben Milton (Questing Beast) to the green. He seems to stay strictly apolitical from what I've seen, and Knave and Maze Rats are fairly big, plus he seems to have upset some people by promoting LotFP which is pretty funny.

So does the list go by woke games and woke companies and woke companies that produced woke games and non-woke writers that worked for woke publishers and non-woke companies being infiltrated by woke-employees? And are their colors for representing all the things?

I edited Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition. For free, because I wanted the book I planned on buying to be well-written enough for my players. Mongoose didn't have an editor and had no plans to hire one. Or editors were asking for too much to edit the core rulebook.  Luckily, Mongoose wasn't woke enough back then (ca. 2015). And every week for about 2 months, I was sending annotations and edited stuff back to Mongoose before the printer's deadline.

So keep in mind that the list will have to be updated frequently as the main-stream RPG industry collapses, and indies become more popular/hated by the left.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on September 10, 2021, 05:08:20 PM
So does the list go by woke games and woke companies and woke companies that produced woke games and non-woke writers that worked for woke publishers and non-woke companies being infiltrated by woke-employees? And are their colors for representing all the things?

Red means actively woke and actively anti-consumer, or push their politics using their products (ie Varg, Evil Hat, WotC). Yellow is slightly woke or has bent the knee and might again in the future, or has used their accounts to be woke but generally have non-woke products (ie Goodman Games, Free League). Green is apolitical or anti-woke (ie Pundit, Autarch, Necrotic Gnome).

The people in the green, while some might be woke personally, they don't talk about it using company accounts and don't put it in their books, and some (like Basic Fantasy) actively keep politics away from anything touching their products.

Edit: just saw your edit, pretty sure it's stated that it'll be updated fairly frequently as stuff changes in the forward that Ocule wrote, sorry to hear you got caught up in that inadvertently Shawn

For your consideration for REMOVAL:

The "new" or latest incarnation of TSR (or "TSR3" if you will) shouldn't be included in this endeavour despite their "apolitical stance" as they have not produced *any* RPG products. You literally cannot purchase any RPGs, books, content from them.

It is my understanding that the main issue that Erik Tenkar and other notable folks in the hobby have with the "new" TSR3 is that Justin LaNasa (the fellow bank-rolling everything over at TSR3 at the moment) and his team have been deceptively representing themselves to gamers as the TSR of old .. and using the "power of nostalgia" to convince gamers into funneling cash to the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum by way of selling cheap merchandise (EDIT: dice, patches, shirts, stickers) with the old TSR logos.

There are several YouTube videos on the Tenkar Tavern page that discuss the facts and details regarding this "bait and switch".

If by virtue of the fact that you are excluding content creators who have slightly above zero sales in the RPG market, then too TSR Hobbies should be excluded as well.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on September 10, 2021, 12:19:36 PM

Quote from: Hopladamus on September 09, 2021, 09:22:34 PM
I remember that Shawn Driscoll also posts here occasionally and he did contribute a lot of artwork to Traveller games, but he doesn't sell his own work to my knowledge, so he's probably not eligible for this list.

I sell my artwork. People often want HD versions of my art for their sci-fi books and RPGs. The stuff you see on my Pinterest or DeviantArt is free to download and use as long as you credit me is all. I haven't released any games that I've designed. They're still for my own use (proprietary software, Universe/Life Generators, etc). I do have some gaming tools on GitHub though.

I don't know if this was shared yet.

How about I plug in your YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/ShawnDriscollCG

Quote from: oggsmash on September 10, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
I do not understand why people are concerned it is an "enemies list".

Sometimes when you have so much ass to kick it is important to keep track.

Quote from: jeff37923 on September 10, 2021, 07:22:38 AM

Quote from: Hopladamus on September 09, 2021, 09:22:34 PMI remember that Shawn Driscoll also posts here occasionally and he did contribute a lot of artwork to Traveller games....

Oh yeah, you were also a contributor to Traveller. Jeff Hopper, right? Do you have anything that we could plug in here?

Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 10, 2021, 04:11:02 PM

Quote from: Ben_Wenham on September 10, 2021, 03:47:17 PM
Anyway, it is a friday night, I have better things to do than troll Pundit.

I'm pretty skeptical about that point.

An example of their best and brightest?

They definitely edited that page between printings. I'm looking at scans from two different sources -- first printing and tenth printing -- and the entire 'additional consultation' block got wiped.

I suppose it'd be interesting to see when it got smoked, but honestly, Ben is just here to chase clout so he can get good boy asspats.

Quote from: Gamecock City Gamer on September 10, 2021, 12:55:37 PM
I am new to this site (as a matter of fact, this is my first post!), and found it after listening to RPG Pundits video a few days ago.

To those who put this list together, THANK YOU! I'm absolutely tired of the SJW agenda being pushed into gaming.

Welcome to theRPGsite!

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 10, 2021, 05:39:58 PM
They definitely edited that page between printings. I'm looking at scans from two different sources -- first printing and tenth printing -- and the entire 'additional consultation' block got wiped.

I suppose it'd be interesting to see when it got smoked, but honestly, Ben is just here to chase clout so he can get good boy asspats.

I'm pretty sure Pundit had a video about it when it first happened.

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on September 10, 2021, 01:53:10 PM

Quote from: Gamecock City Gamer on September 10, 2021, 01:32:55 PM

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on September 09, 2021, 04:03:54 PM
I think this is what Ocule meant by people asking to be put on the list as a way to get free marketing from woke Twitter. Tbh there is a single copy of his zine out, that's 36 pages, that has hardly sold. Why bother?

I'm not a prevalent author by any means, but I may have sold more stuff than that guy.

I have written for some companies and have stopped due to their wokeness. One such company is Aegis Studios (Glimpse the Beyond, Odysseys & Overlords, Contagion RPG for Savage Worlds, etc.) which should probably be added to the red list as Travis Legge is pretty much a 100% SJW.

Just looked them up, their Citizens Divided line looks very charged and their layout and art looks... Not good imo

What is with all the woke art being bad with weird proportions like the heads looking too big and stuff like that?

They hate art as a representation of an aesthetic ideal. They want to present everything as deformed, ugly or corrupted because they hope it means people will stop striving to improve themselves, or look up to those who do.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 10, 2021, 05:39:58 PM
They definitely edited that page between printings. I'm looking at scans from two different sources -- first printing and tenth printing -- and the entire 'additional consultation' block got wiped.

I suppose it'd be interesting to see when it got smoked, but honestly, Ben is just here to chase clout so he can get good boy asspats.

They removed all consultants because of "Zak S.": https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/dndstatement

The article only says they would remove Zak from the credits, but they nuked the whole list for good measure.

Quote from: Ben_Wenham on September 10, 2021, 03:01:47 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 10, 2021, 04:12:36 AM

Quote from: Ben_Wenham on September 09, 2021, 03:49:39 PM
Hey Chuddo,

Just here to submit myself to the red section, what with my work having helped to raise tens' of thousands of dollars for bail funds during the George Floyd uprising, and the fact that I am actively engaged in anti-fascist activism.

So if you could add my zine; The City of the Red Pox, I would appreciate it.

K thx, bye.

Irrelevant people don't get on the list.

Was amused to see in my emails notification that you had responded.

To your point, your presence on the list confused my on that point.

After all; I, an absolute nobody freelancer, have worked on the same number of Gold sellers(you've had 4 right) on drive thru, plus a platinum seller, which you don't seem to have done. Add to that, the fact two of those golds are in off set print runs for a relatively large publisher, so you know, have probably sold the odd copy.

Then there is the fact that, The City of the Red Pox, has according to the publicly available sales data out sold The Invisible College. 

Keep in mind that The City of the Red Pox was my first solo project, came out of no where, wasn't supported by a you tube channel, blog and little cult of personality.

So if I as an irrelevance, which I freely admit to being, am not to be added to the list....Why are you on it?

:: WINK ::

You're hilarious. After getting yourself banned for trying to post private information about me, I probably don't need to respond to this but I will: you worked as a collaborator on some big projects.

This is like a guy who held up the mikes during the recording of some corporate record claiming he has credits on just as many gold records as an indie singer/songwriter who people have actually heard of.

Not to mention that in almost every one of these projects you were probably paid a pittance. "Freelance writers" who work "for the industry" in the world of RPGs want to pretend that they're the "real" game designers, when really they're just hired monkeys who write for almost nothing. What was it, one cent a word? two? five? Or just for the "exposure" of getting your name in a credits section of a book?

Your one solo project was a complete failure, much like yourself. Your entire life's work in gaming has probably earned you, at most, around what I make from RPGs in a month.

No one knows who you are. When you die, no one will even notice you're not around in the hobby anymore. That's how irrelevant you are.