Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

I'm acquainted with him, and though I don't know him well enough that'd I'd say he's "a friend" I will say that Erik's a good dude overall. I think his main goal of the ACAB/DriveThru thing was just to prove a point about censorship going both ways (or at least something along those lines). However, I think it was misguided, I think the fact that he's a retired officer makes it look even worse, and I think that no matter how un-personal he would like for it to have been, there's just no way that he wouldn't have been on some level personally offended by the ACAB statement. I myself do not agree with the statement, but I 100% think that whoever had it in their product had all right to have it there and I think it's lame as shit that he had it pulled even if it was to make a point. Censorship over speech rubs me wrong in the worst way, regardless.

In the name of even-handedness, it's only right he's listed (at least for now) in the yellow camp as long as it's properly document as to why and noted as a one-off kinda thing.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

Greetings!

Indeed. That is quite understandable. "Freedom of Speech" is great. It is also a legal concept, to protect the public in the public square.

It does not have any particular authority or sanctity within private groups or associations. Mr. Tenkar can banhammer whomever he likes from his private website or Discord server. I am a strong supporter of "Freedom of Speech" and welcoming different viewpoints--however, having said that--yeah, if I were running my own website or Discord server thingy--you can bet I would have certain kinds of people I would banhammer like a flash of lightning from Thor's Hammer, and I wouldn't shed a tear or feel remorse for doing so in the slightest.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 09:21:07 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

Greetings!

Indeed. That is quite understandable. "Freedom of Speech" is great. It is also a legal concept, to protect the public in the public square.

It does not have any particular authority or sanctity within private groups or associations. Mr. Tenkar can banhammer whomever he likes from his private website or Discord server. I am a strong supporter of "Freedom of Speech" and welcoming different viewpoints--however, having said that--yeah, if I were running my own website or Discord server thingy--you can bet I would have certain kinds of people I would banhammer like a flash of lightning from Thor's Hammer, and I wouldn't shed a tear or feel remorse for doing so in the slightest.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Fully agreed! When it comes to any beef Erik and Venger have, or Erik banning him from his Discord, that's fair play. His ball, his court, his rules.

Having a product taken off DriveThru though, that's over the line, regardless of my personal feelings towards Erik.

Quote from: Mithgarthr on September 08, 2021, 09:18:39 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

I think that no matter how un-personal he would like for it to have been, there's just no way that he wouldn't have been on some level personally offended by the ACAB statement. I myself do not agree with the statement,

Yeah, I don't agree with that ACAB statement at all. I mean, it's fallacious. He would have been better to take it on the chin and just ignore it.

But that aside, he comes across as a decent chap.

Quote from: Mithgarthr on September 08, 2021, 09:23:12 PM

Quote from: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 09:21:07 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

Greetings!

Indeed. That is quite understandable. "Freedom of Speech" is great. It is also a legal concept, to protect the public in the public square.

It does not have any particular authority or sanctity within private groups or associations. Mr. Tenkar can banhammer whomever he likes from his private website or Discord server. I am a strong supporter of "Freedom of Speech" and welcoming different viewpoints--however, having said that--yeah, if I were running my own website or Discord server thingy--you can bet I would have certain kinds of people I would banhammer like a flash of lightning from Thor's Hammer, and I wouldn't shed a tear or feel remorse for doing so in the slightest.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Fully agreed! When it comes to any beef Erik and Venger have, or Erik banning him from his Discord, that's fair play. His ball, his court, his rules.

Having a product taken off DriveThru though, that's over the line, regardless of my personal feelings towards Erik.

Greetings!

Good to see you join us here, Mithgarthr! Yes, I also agree. Products in the market place should sink or swim on their own merits, and not be censored. ACAB, Rowha, Thirsty Sword Lesbians, Myfrog, whatever.

Welcome to the boards here!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Mithgarthr on September 08, 2021, 09:18:39 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

I'm acquainted with him, and though I don't know him well enough that'd I'd say he's "a friend" I will say that Erik's a good dude overall. I think his main goal of the ACAB/DriveThru thing was just to prove a point about censorship going both ways (or at least something along those lines). However, I think it was misguided, I think the fact that he's a retired officer makes it look even worse, and I think that no matter how un-personal he would like for it to have been, there's just no way that he wouldn't have been on some level personally offended by the ACAB statement. I myself do not agree with the statement, but I 100% think that whoever had it in their product had all right to have it there and I think it's lame as shit that he had it pulled even if it was to make a point. Censorship over speech rubs me wrong in the worst way, regardless.

In the name of even-handedness, it's only right he's listed (at least for now) in the yellow camp as long as it's properly document as to why and noted as a one-off kinda thing.

I think that he should be listed on the Green list with a mention that he did this unsavory thing. Honestly, there are several people on the yellow list that should be moved to the green list with this caveat. I have previously named Reaper miniatures as one such company.

Quote from: Hopladamus on September 08, 2021, 09:31:50 PM

Quote from: Mithgarthr on September 08, 2021, 09:18:39 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

I'm acquainted with him, and though I don't know him well enough that'd I'd say he's "a friend" I will say that Erik's a good dude overall. I think his main goal of the ACAB/DriveThru thing was just to prove a point about censorship going both ways (or at least something along those lines). However, I think it was misguided, I think the fact that he's a retired officer makes it look even worse, and I think that no matter how un-personal he would like for it to have been, there's just no way that he wouldn't have been on some level personally offended by the ACAB statement. I myself do not agree with the statement, but I 100% think that whoever had it in their product had all right to have it there and I think it's lame as shit that he had it pulled even if it was to make a point. Censorship over speech rubs me wrong in the worst way, regardless.

In the name of even-handedness, it's only right he's listed (at least for now) in the yellow camp as long as it's properly document as to why and noted as a one-off kinda thing.

I think that he should be listed on the Green list with a mention that he did this unsavory thing. Honestly, there are several people on the yellow list that should be moved to the green list with this caveat. I have previously named Reaper miniatures as one such company.

Yeah, thinking about it more that's probably the better idea. He's definitely someone who's green but made a yellow mistake. Cheers!

Quote from: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 09:21:07 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Re. Tenkar. I personally, don't know the guy, but I watch his YT channel from time to time. And he seems pretty cool to me.

While I don't agree with his trying to ban the acab thing. I can understand why he might of - Him being a police officer for all that time.

Greetings!

Indeed. That is quite understandable. "Freedom of Speech" is great. It is also a legal concept, to protect the public in the public square.

It does not have any particular authority or sanctity within private groups or associations. Mr. Tenkar can banhammer whomever he likes from his private website or Discord server. I am a strong supporter of "Freedom of Speech" and welcoming different viewpoints--however, having said that--yeah, if I were running my own website or Discord server thingy--you can bet I would have certain kinds of people I would banhammer like a flash of lightning from Thor's Hammer, and I wouldn't shed a tear or feel remorse for doing so in the slightest.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Agreed. If it's on your site of channel or what have you. Then go for it . I think attacking someone's potential earnings is a bad way to go about it.

Oh, I'd be the same... On my personal whatcha-majigger. Me too... Freedom of speech is sacrosanct. Plus, I'd happy foster a good conversation and welcome different opinions too. But I can't deal with unreasonable people, trolls, or vile woke scolds. Let just say, I don't suffer fools. They'd be nuked out of orbit quicker than a rat up a drainpipe.

I mean, I think Pundit is far too nice here sometimes. But on drivthru it 'aint none of my business, and what you put up for sale, as long as it's legal (if you catch my drift). Just because I might find a game offensive I've no right to tell others what they can and can't play or buy or sell.

ACAB is a leftist thing, so....fight fire with fire?

Quote from: Jason Coplen on September 08, 2021, 09:38:55 PM
ACAB is a leftist thing, so....fight fire with fire?

Well, I certainly don't support such an illogical position and I'm a lefty.

Something to keep in mind is that Teddy Beale (aka Vox Day) is a bit of an ass. Despite his constant blather, if you step back a bit he fits the classic 'insecure beta' archetype he complains about to a tee. He also does NOT handle disagreement well -- even if it's reasonably made.

Remember, this is a guy who honestly thinks a return to monarchy (with himself as king, naturally) would be a cure for the world's woes.

So, no, he's not a SJW. Far from it. But he IS a dipshit

Quote from: Torque2100 on September 08, 2021, 03:08:19 PM
Kind of impressed I wasn't banned for my last post.

In any case, I have really soured on this "list."  The rhetoric surrounding it is just ridiculous and hyperbolic. These are RPG designers we are discussing.  They are not the Khmer Rouge. That's just as ridiculous and hurtful as when they call someone a "Nazi."

I think the best approach is to just play the games that excite our imaginations and not worry about the High School popularity games or who's being a prick to whom on Twitter.

You're never going to "win" the KulturKampf. It's a fools errand and a waste of time an energy.

Spend that time, energy and money on things that make you happy.

It makes me happy to fight the enemies of western civilization.

And it's ridiculous for you to say this is about 'popularity games'. This is about one group who are trying to make sure me and others lose their entire lives, for not submitting to their ideological demands. Yes, that's the Khmer Rouge. If they had the political power to kill, they would.

Quote from: ArtemisWyrm on September 08, 2021, 06:40:41 PM

Quote from: ArtemisWyrm on September 08, 2021, 06:39:16 PM
When people come on here to tear down the list based on baseless accusations of 'hypocrisy' and 'bigotry' I am reminded of this Nietzsche essay:

http://www.michaelhoskinson.com/nietzsche-on-the-tarantulas/

This is also good to watch

https://youtu.be/8-yKn18xwW0

Please do not post blind links to videos, or links to videos that are not on the topic of the RPG hobby.

Do this again and you will be banned.

Tenkar is not my favorite person. He's sometimes wussed out when it comes to free speech. But to suggest he should be on the red list is patently absurd.